Claiming IB

[madzone]

I am not a medical expert, I am merely someone who has suffered from stress and depression and sought and received medical support to deal with it. What worked for me may not work for you.

Get back to the NHS until you have got what you need!

This is what gets me though - people saying 'You need this, you need that' without actually knowing what's available. What's available where you are may not be available where I am and vice versa. I don't think it does anyone any favours giving them false hope.

And I truly think that we need to be encouraged to take more control over our own mental health when it comes to things like mild depression and mental discomfort. It's disempowering to be lead to believe that the NHS has all the answers if only we ask the right questions. It clearly doesn't.

 

[Guineveretoo]

What's stopping me is a lack of money and nowhere to go on HB (another part of the reason for a longer term on IB, so i can get myself settled).
I'm sure these symptoms can be controlled - but not through junk food. No one is going to employ someone who has to piss off for an hour a day to sort himself out while he gets ill. It just won't happen - can you imagine working at a till for instance and getting these symtoms? You'd have to shut it down!

We are talking about the jobs that are avilable (in JC terms); sure if i wa able to work for myself or at home or something then i'd have more control over my circumstances, but that's not the case nor is it likely to be I have ot be pragmatic.

And I have actual relaxation music; im not just talking about music that's relaxing.

I don't know where this particular symptom comes from, all i know is that up untill 6 years ago it was never the case. Then it was. The symptoms are physical (they also include fdeeling thirstier and needing to piss a hell of a lot more). Sometimes are relatively mild, and some are not. I don't have the answers, i only know how it makes me feel (and what the consultatnt said in respect of my readings today, which are not encouraging).

I just want to sort myslef out completely, not some half arsed approach because that's all the gp/system/society/whatever are comfortable with. If that means letting me claim some extra benefit like a filthy nogoodnik then so be it.

So, have you seen a consultant?

A consultant what?

 

[Guineveretoo]

This is what gets me though - people saying 'You need this, you need that' without actually knowing what's available. What's available where you are may not be available where I am and vice versa. I don't think it does anyone any favours giving them false hope.

What I am saying this person needs is something which is available to everyone in this country - proper support from the NHS. That doesn't depend on where you are.

I notice that you have added a bit to your post, so mine looks like I am missing your point.

My point is that, judging from what the OP has said, I am getting an impression that s/he is being dismissed by their GP, and that this is causing them difficulty being able to claim proper benefits, leaving the OP without any money, and feeling alone and a bit desperate.

In my view and my opinion, s/he should be able to get a better service from the NHS than that, and I strongly believe that medical support CAN help people with stress/anxiety/depression by pointing them to the sources of help which are available free.

 

[madzone]

What I am saying this person needs is something which is available to everyone in this country - proper support from the NHS. That doesn't depend on where you are.

What does that 'proper support' consist of though? Can you not see what I'm saying? This idealistic view of what should be available is , more often than not, not the reality. Of course it depends on where you are - take the pilot scheme in my area to allow gp's to prescribe alternative treatments. And why should it all be down to the NHS? Why aren't we ecouraging each other to take more responsibility for our own health (mental or otherwise)?

 

[wishface]

So, have you seen a consultant?

A consultant what?

at the hospital, i've been there a number of times to the diabetic/blood sugar clinic. I've also seen a dietitician who said there was nothing wrong with my diet (which is all she said). I can't remember their names (it's been a couple of different people starting with someone who gave me some blood glucose strips to bleed on to which they then lost three times).

Apparently my blood sugar has returned to normal though i still feel tired. That's an hour after i first checked. How the heck does someone integrate this into their working life? If there's a way I haven't found it, and not for want of trying.

 

[Guineveretoo]

What does that 'proper support' consist of though? Of course it depends on where you are - take the pilot scheme in my area to allow gp's to prescribe alternative treatments.

As I keep saying, I don't know what "proper support" this OP needs, because I am not a medical expert.

I don't know why you have decided to launch a bit of an attack on me - I was trying to be supportive to someone who was clearly unhappy with the service provided by their GP, and was making suggestions based on my own experience.

I think it's time I left this thread, because I am getting mildly irritated at being challenged by you every time I type anything, which is not going to be particularly helpful to the OP.

 

[Guineveretoo]

at the hospital, i've been there a number of times to the diabetic/blood sugar clinic. I've also seen a dietitician who said there was nothing wrong with my diet (which is all she said). I can't remember their names (it's been a couple of different people starting with someone who gave me some blood glucose strips to bleed on to which they then lost three times).

Apparently my blood sugar has returned to normal though i still feel tired. That's an hour after i first checked. How the heck does someone integrate this into their working life? If there's a way I haven't found it, and not for want of trying.

Dieticians can be so crap, can't they? The one I went to told me to eat less red meat. I have been vegetarian for more than 30 years.

I just meant which sort of experts. I was trying to see if you were getting any support for your depression/stress/anxiety. But I am leaving this thread for now.

As I said earlier - good luck!

 

[madzone]

As I keep saying, I don't know what "proper support" this OP needs, because I am not a medical expert.

So, why do you feel able to give an opinion on the fact that wishface isn't getting what is (IYO) readily available?

I don't know why you have decided to launch a bit of an attack on me - I was trying to be supportive to someone who was clearly unhappy with the service provided by their GP, and was making suggestions based on my own experience.

a) I'm not attacking you
b) Offering support is one thing but what if your support is just exaccerbating the fact that wishface is clearly looking for something other than 'proper support' from the gp? What if your 'support' isn't actually helpful?

I think it's time I left this thread, because I am getting mildly irritated at being challenged by you every time I type anything, which is not going to be particularly helpful to the OP.

It depends whether you think that leading the OP into a false sense of security is 'particularly helpful'

All too often on Urban we rush to agree with someone without questioning. It's all brackets and agreement without actually looking at crux of the issue. Sometimes that can just mean we're colluding in keeping someone down.

With all due respect I worked in mental health for years and just telling someone there's more services and to get out there and chase them when maybe there aren't the services in the first place is as much use as a chocoltate tea pot.

I'm sorry you feel attacked guineveretoo but I'm only stating my opinion

 

[Guineveretoo]

So, why do you feel able to give an opinion on the fact that wishface isn't getting what is (IYO) readily available?


a) I'm not attacking you
b) Offering support is one thing but what if your support is just exaccerbating the fact that wishface is clearly looking for something other than 'proper support' from the gp? What if your 'support' isn't actually helpful?



It depends whether you think that leading the OP into a false sense of security is 'particularly helpful'

All too often on Urban we rush to agree with someone without questioning. It's all brackets and agreement without actually looking at crux of the issue. Sometimes that can just mean we're colluding in keeping someone down.

With all due respect I worked in mental health for years and just telling someone there's more services and to get out there and chase them when maybe there aren't the services in the first place is as much use as a chocoltate tea pot.

I'm sorry you feel attacked guineveretoo but I'm only stating my opinion

Well, I do feel attacked, and this post just continues it. It seems it is okay for you to express your opinion and offer support, but not me.

Why not leave me alone and focus on the real issue, eh?

I will do the same.

Good luck, wishface - I hope you sort out the problems you are having with the DWP and the NHS, and that you find a way through all of it.

*unsubscribes from thread*

 

[madzone]

Well, I do feel attacked, and this post just continues it. It seems it is okay for you to express your opinion and offer support, but not me.

Why not leave me alone and focus on the real issue, eh?

I will do the same.

Good luck, wishface - I hope you sort out the problems you are having with the DWP and the NHS, and that you find a way through all of it.

*unsubscribes from thread*

How bizarre

You're part of the 'real issue' . You keep encouraging wishface to get proper help from the NHS when it sounds like the gp has already done all that's available to them. Why aren't more people helping wishface explore what they can do for themselves? I agree that it may be a good idea to change GP and ask for a psych referral - I've said so all the way through the thread but to keep suggesting that someone seeks this holy grail of 'proper support' is just too vague to be really helpful. Any suggestion of practical action (including JSA regulations which support the fact the OP can still receive JSA whilst having counselling)has been met with obstacles. To me that's the crux of the issue.

 

[wishface]

To be honest wishface you seem to place obstacles in front of any of my attempts to help you. I think you've made your mind up on certain things and no amount of advice is going to be of any use to you.

I don't agree; I think that's a little unfair. You've asked me some questions about all this and I've answered them. I've done all the things you've suggested; i've seen the gp, been to the hospital, trying to get advocacy. To say I'm placing obstacles is being unfair. What obstacles have I placed? I'm talking about my circumstances, they are as they are and I'm trying to change them. I take sxception to being told that i'm deliberately trying to block attempts at help, I really do.

I wish you luck with your gp and everything else but my harshly honest opinion is that nothing is going to get better for you until you start to help yourself. You seem to be looking outside yourself for all the 'answers'. The turning point for me (with a very similar situation to yours, including the same blood sugar symptoms) is that if I wanted it to get better I had to start to take a bit of responsibility.

What do you mean by this?

I look back at my life before that point and I cannot believe I'm the same person. I have a life that I could never have dreamt of and it came about through working out what I could do - not expecting a magic bullet from someone else. I believe you have the resources to do the same but you'll need to change your focus.

This is why i take excpetion; i've gone to pains to make it clear that I don't want people to do it for me and that I am not asking for a magic bullet. But I don't have all the answers - I'm not a doctor, a counsellor or a dietitican or anything like that so what else do I do but ask them? I've made it perfectly clear that I am trying to move forward but if asking for the help to do that is a sin then I'm sorry, but I don't know what else you expect.

I know this will come accross as harsh and I await the fall out but someone said something similar to me a long time ago and I'm very grateful for it.

saying something harsh is one thing, i can deal with that. Saying something like 'take responsibility' is something else; it just sounds like a platitude. What does that mean? Do you noit think asking for help is taking responsibility? I don't know what the altnerative is other than carrying on in the same situation.

You can change where you live - it may not be easy but it's not impossible.

#sigh# I live in the countryside, there are rarely few if any at all places that accept housing benefit (and none at the moment). Short of sleeping in a field I'm not sure what you would expect? I cannot afford rent otherwise.

You can start making steps to address your blood sugar symptoms and I'm sure there are other steps you can take to help yourself starting with changing your gp.

Do you not think that's what I am doing? There are only so many doctors locally so i can't just dismiss one and go to another - which I've already done anyway (and has also happened again since the two old gp's retired). That's what the advocacy process is for. Give me a chance!

 

[wishface]

As I keep saying, I don't know what "proper support" this OP needs, because I am not a medical expert.

I don't know why you have decided to launch a bit of an attack on me - I was trying to be supportive to someone who was clearly unhappy with the service provided by their GP, and was making suggestions based on my own experience.

I think it's time I left this thread, because I am getting mildly irritated at being challenged by you every time I type anything, which is not going to be particularly helpful to the OP.

I wouldn't say the dietician was crap but she just looked at my diet and said it was ok. No suggestions as to any changes I might make, so perhaps it is ok. It's not spectacular and I woudl like to eat healthier, but my options are limited by finances and what's available locally (and that is not an obstacle it's a fact). But as I say she felt there was nothing wrong with the diet so who knows.

 

[wishface]

How bizarre

You're part of the 'real issue' . You keep encouraging wishface to get proper help from the NHS when it sounds like the gp has already done all that's available to them. Why aren't more people helping wishface explore what they can do for themselves? I agree that it may be a good idea to change GP and ask for a psych referral - I've said so all the way through the thread but to keep suggesting that someone seeks this holy grail of 'proper support' is just too vague to be really helpful. Any suggestion of practical action (including JSA regulations which support the fact the OP can still receive JSA whilst having counselling)has been met with obstacles. To me that's the crux of the issue.

Again that isn't an obstacle, it's a fact. The regulations may be there, but that isn't how they have behaved nor do I understand how that regulation is meant to play out given their well known ferocity in pursuing the requirements for JSA, requirements which will be comrpomised by time spent doing other things - regardless of what they are. Surely you can see that?

 

[madzone]

I don't agree; I think that's a little unfair. You've asked me some questions about all this and I've answered them. I've done all the things you've suggested; i've seen the gp, been to the hospital, trying to get advocacy. To say I'm placing obstacles is being unfair. What obstacles have I placed? I'm talking about my circumstances, they are as they are and I'm trying to change them. I take sxception to being told that i'm deliberately trying to block attempts at help, I really do.




What do you mean by this?



This is why i take excpetion; i've gone to pains to make it clear that I don't want people to do it for me and that I am not asking for a magic bullet. But I don't have all the answers - I'm not a doctor, a counsellor or a dietitican or anything like that so what else do I do but ask them? I've made it perfectly clear that I am trying to move forward but if asking for the help to do that is a sin then I'm sorry, but I don't know what else you expect.

saying something harsh is one thing, i can deal with that. Saying something like 'take responsibility' is something else; it just sounds like a platitude. What does that mean? Do you noit think asking for help is taking responsibility? I don't know what the altnerative is other than carrying on in the same situation.



#sigh# I live in the countryside, there are rarely few if any at all places that accept housing benefit (and none at the moment). Short of sleeping in a field I'm not sure what you would expect? I cannot afford rent otherwise.



Do you not think that's what I am doing? There are only so many doctors locally so i can't just dismiss one and go to another - which I've already done anyway (and has also happened again since the two old gp's retired). That's what the advocacy process is for. Give me a chance!

To be honest wishface - I've said what I want to say. To go further will be seen as a personal attack and that's not what I'm aiming for at all. Suffice it to say I firmly believe that there are actions you could take that would alleviate your situation but that when they've been suggested (including the JSA regs) you've stated that it's not possible. You've given loads of reasons why you can't do something but not thought about what it is you CAN do. For me to participate further in this thread is probably unwise as I don't want to upset you further Just on the housing point though - you say you can't find anyone who'll take HB - why would that be any different on IB?

 

[madzone]

Again that isn't an obstacle, it's a fact. The regulations may be there, but that isn't how they have behaved nor do I understand how that regulation is meant to play out given their well known ferocity in pursuing the requirements for JSA, requirements which will be comrpomised by time spent doing other things - regardless of what they are. Surely you can see that?

No - I don't accept it Purely because there are other people claiming JSA and receiveing counselling so it can be done .

Anyway - I'm strugglng to see anything out of my left eye Probably spent too much time on the computer. Better be off.

 

[wishface]

To be honest wishface - I've said what I want to say. To go further will be seen as a personal attack and that's not what I'm aiming for at all. Suffice it to say I firmly believe that there are actions you could take that would alleviate your situation but that when they've been suggested (including the JSA regs) you've stated that it's not possible. You've given loads of reasons why you can't do something but not thought about what it is you CAN do. For me to participate further in this thread is probably unwise as I don't want to upset you further Just on the housing point though - you say you can't find anyone who'll take HB - why would that be any different on IB?

I didn't say that would be different on IB, that's not the point of IB. The point of IB is not having to deal with the stress caused by the JC which is part of my problem (which you seem to have overlooked when I explained how they have behaved in response to me explaining my problems - that's the ppoint being made about their regs) and being able to live while i sort myself out. It's also the only financial alternative i can find while i feel unable to work for reasons already acutely explained.

You say you have suggested actions that i have avoided or made excuses about, but that's because you are ignoring those reasons to suit yourself. I just asked you how those jSA regs are supposed to work in light of the fact they were already made aware of my problems and it made no difference whatsoever?
I also made it clear that I simply cannot deal with the stress they cause anymore. What then would you suggest? I think it's unfair to say i can't be bothered and then not respond. I really do. I'm not upset I am disappointed and I think it's poor form to then say stuff like this and then suggest you don't wish to participate any further, thereby not responding.

 

[madzone]

I didn't say that would be different on IB, that's not the point of IB. The point of IB is not having to deal with the stress caused by the JC which is part of my problem (which you seem to have overlooked when I explained how they have behaved in response to me explaining my problems - that's the ppoint being made about their regs) and being able to live while i sort myself out. It's also the only financial alternative i can find while i feel unable to work for reasons already acutely explained.

You say you have suggested actions that i have avoided or made excuses about, but that's because you are ignoring those reasons to suit yourself. I just asked you how those jSA regs are supposed to work in light of the fact they were already made aware of my problems and it made no difference whatsoever?
I also made it clear that I simply cannot deal with the stress they cause anymore. What then would you suggest? I think it's unfair to say i can't be bothered and then not respond. I really do. I'm not upset I am disappointed and I think it's poor form to then say stuff like this and then suggest you don't wish to participate any further, thereby not responding.

I've said all I feel is appropriate though wishface. To go further would be unhelpful. I stand by all I've said so far. I'm sorry it hasn't been useful for you and I continue to wish you luck getting it sorted to your satisfaction

 

[Jambooboo]

If part of your issues are stress/anxiety related then the National Phobics Society may have something on offer to you (don't let the 'phobics' bit put you off - it's a misleading title as they're basically involved with most stress/anxiety related issues).

I joined up with them a few years back after hearing about them, simply because membership offers low-cost treatments and therapies. I think membership cost me about £20 for the year, and through that I got counselling and hypnotherapy for only £7.50 a session (think it was something like £15 for the waged). The place where it is run from was just down the road from my last place, so for a while (before other things cropped up) I made use of a lot of the facilities on offer (reiki, head/body massage, yoga, meditation etc - all with a nominal cost).

Therapies offered include:-
# Clinical hypnotherapy
# Fast phobia technique
# Neuro-linguistic programming
# EMDR (Eye movement desensitisation & reprocessing)
# Cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT)
# Emotional freedom techniques (EFT)
# Thought field therapy (TFT)
# Counselling
# Reflexology
# Spiritual & reiki healing
# Aromatherapy
# Therapeutic massage
# Stress management

& more .....

Check out this page and see what stuff they have to offer in your area!

Good luck.

 

[wishface]

Thanks.

The local service is the same as the friend people (well it is them) that i am seeing. First you have to have an assessment with them which i am in the process of arranging. But again having seen what they can offer, these things will all be during the day and woudl consequenty clash with any claim for JSA. That's why it has to be IB (or no treatment i suppose).

 

[wtfftw]

I'd get down the CAB if I were you (hopefully there's one vaguely near). It doesn't sound like you fit for IB. You've said yourself that you could work from home. I don't know what the deal is with income support for sickness but they should. It's really not worth attempting IB hoops if you don't even check the criteria. Look up the IB50 and see how many points you'd score. You're also complicated as I think you mix mental and physical health (which of course are treated as completely different )

Perhaps write to your MP about the jc+ being gits?

Also whenever you speak to anyone about benefits I'd advise making a note of who they are, the time, date and a précis of what was said.

For the blood sugar issue you could take a look at the GI diet (I can't open more than one window/tab on this or I'd google for you).

MY GP wasn't on side for IB. It took a lot of stress to get the med4 out of her (turns out she thought I was working). In hindsight things like keeping a symptom diary and making regular appointments with her to discuss what I was trying would've kept us both more informed.

It did take 15 months for my IB to be sorted. I'm still awaiting my first automated payment after getting back pay. My health deteriorated in the meantime because the process was that awful.

Also if you're on housing benefit they will take some of your IB money so it might not work out better financially than JS.


Good luck. I'd advise getting on with the holistic plans you have as if you do get IB it will be a long process.

 

[wishface]

I still need to find out just how this jobcentre regulation is meant to work; it seems to me that if you are unfit for work - you are unfit for work and if you go on every week and keep saying to them 'i'm not well' they will just push you off and make you go for IB anyway. I can't see them not making you apply for jobs and doing all the normal stuff (at least they didn't with me; i might as well of no bothered telling them).

IOW: the same situation.

 

[scifisam]

I'd get down the CAB if I were you (hopefully there's one vaguely near). It doesn't sound like you fit for IB. You've said yourself that you could work from home. I don't know what the deal is with income support for sickness but they should. It's really not worth attempting IB hoops if you don't even check the criteria. Look up the IB50 and see how many points you'd score. You're also complicated as I think you mix mental and physical health (which of course are treated as completely different )

Perhaps write to your MP about the jc+ being gits?

Also whenever you speak to anyone about benefits I'd advise making a note of who they are, the time, date and a précis of what was said.

For the blood sugar issue you could take a look at the GI diet (I can't open more than one window/tab on this or I'd google for you).

MY GP wasn't on side for IB. It took a lot of stress to get the med4 out of her (turns out she thought I was working). In hindsight things like keeping a symptom diary and making regular appointments with her to discuss what I was trying would've kept us both more informed.

It did take 15 months for my IB to be sorted. I'm still awaiting my first automated payment after getting back pay. My health deteriorated in the meantime because the process was that awful.

Also if you're on housing benefit they will take some of your IB money so it might not work out better financially than JS.


Good luck. I'd advise getting on with the holistic plans you have as if you do get IB it will be a long process.

Wow - I just went and looked that up for myself and would score 32 points, only two of which are mental. Maybe I should have claimed! But I couldn't face the struggle to get the money.

Good luck, Wishface. I think you've had some good advice in this thread - hope you can take some of it on.

 

[madzone]

I notice that you have added a bit to your post, so mine looks like I am missing your point.

And if you look at the time of my edit it was exactly the same time as you posted so no need for paranoia eh GT ?

 

[madzone]

i might as well of no bothered telling them).

Why did you tell them?
Maybe you're confusing the situation by offering JC+ too much information.Why don't you just sign on and deal with situations as they arise i.e if they make you go on a course then you'll have to change your treatment times that week.

If you're determined to apply for IB I think you shouild just go ahead and do it but be aware that (as drag0n says) it's a taxable benefit so it may mean you get less HB. It also may mean that if they think you're well enough to get yourself to all the treatments you want then they'll say you're well enough to work and put you on JSA. I was given the Spanish Inquisition about attending my son's sports day. They asked how far it was from the car, if I'd managed to sit all the way through, if I'd managed to walk back to the car unaided etc etc etc. JSA is a walk in the park compared to IB.

Here's the mental health descriptors for the Personal Capability Assessment. With a diagnosis of mild depression/anxiety it's extremely unlikely that you'll score enough points. As well as the PCA you have to pass the own occupation test and be seen by a DWP doctor(s) More info here. Needing some time to get yourself together or extra money for treatments/moving house aren't things that meet the criteria for IB and will possibly geopardise your claim. It would be unwise to mention them as part of the claim process IMO

 

[wishface]

Why shouldn't I have told them? What good would that do? Do you think it would have seemed more credible? I don't understand your logic at all.

 

[madzone]

Why shouldn't I have told them? What good would that do? Do you think it would have seemed more credible? I don't understand your logic at all.

Don't you? Oh well never mind eh?

 

[wishface]

Do you think this is a joke or something? I asked a serious question; you told me to keep claiming JSA and I have repreatedly said a) im siging off cause im sick of the stress its causing me b) claiming your ill makes NO difference to their attitude and yet you then ask my why i told them. WTF is that about?

 

[madzone]

No point

 

[madzone]

No point

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Why did you tell them?
Maybe you're confusing the situation by offering JC+ too much information.Why don't you just sign on and deal with situations as they arise i.e if they make you go on a course then you'll have to change your treatment times that week.

If you're determined to apply for IB I think you shouild just go ahead and do it but be aware that (as drag0n says) it's a taxable benefit so it may mean you get less HB. It also may mean that if they think you're well enough to get yourself to all the treatments you want then they'll say you're well enough to work and put you on JSA. I was given the Spanish Inquisition about attending my son's sports day. They asked how far it was from the car, if I'd managed to sit all the way through, if I'd managed to walk back to the car unaided etc etc etc. JSA is a walk in the park compared to IB.

Here's the mental health descriptors for the Personal Capability Assessment. With a diagnosis of mild depression/anxiety it's extremely unlikely that you'll score enough points. As well as the PCA you have to pass the own occupation test and be seen by a DWP doctor(s) More info here. Needing some time to get yourself together or extra money for treatments/moving house aren't things that meet the criteria for IB and will possibly geopardise your claim. It would be unwise to mention them as part of the claim process IMO

It's good of you to post the descriptors but i feel that you really should refrain from advising someone not to claim a benefit, because in your opinion it is 'extremely unlikely' that someone will not score enough to points. Any benefit advisor worth their salt always advises their client that, if in doubt, make a claim and see what decision you get. Otherwise, you're in danger of putting yourself in the wrong mindset for enabling people to understand and enforce their rights. And the taxable nature of IB has no relation to amounts of HB, in practice really.