Claiming IB

[wishface]

Im not dealing with the JC anymore; i've had to put up with too much bullshit from them to continue dealing with their shit. I signed off anyway.

There's no way they are going to just pay up JSA every week in respect of counselling. They put too much pressure to just let you off everytime you refuse a job because of JSA reg 13.

I also had made them aware of the situation; the gp even wrote a somewhat informal note for them, but it made no real difference at all. I still got all their crap; the threats, even being accused by one of the managers of breaking that law (after she was consulted in respect of who can legally coutnersign a passport, someting i already knew in response to their offer to pay for it - which they then burned me on). This was because the document you sign is a legall y binding document and my signature was thus not legal because i could start a job if i so chose becase she claimed she could find one (which she didn't). They also in response to that forced me to restrict the work i can do to ridiculous levels thereby making me put something i had never done and don't really want to do on the Agreement form instead.

phew.

 

[wishface]

I really think you're mistaken about that. Have JC+ said that to you? I would appeal that if they have turned you down for JSA on that basis.

Direct.gov even have a page saying that employers should give people time off counselling for anxiety and depression

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/DG_10028138

they may well be encouraged to give employees time off, but do you really think i would be hired knowing that i am in the process of getting help even before i start work? No employer will choose that person over someone who can work all the time without having 'problems'. Let's be realistic.

Then that just adds to the pressure caused by the jobcentre which is part of hte problem. A big part of claiming IB is because of the fucking grief they cause (not the sole reason either).

Tis situation first came to light when i asked them to help me do the ecdl; i was told i'd have to do it during the evening for precisely the same reasons.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Im not dealing with the JC anymore; i've had to put up with too much bullshit from them to continue dealing with their shit. I signed off anyway.

There's no way they are going to just pay up JSA every week in respect of counselling. They put too much pressure to just let you off everytime you refuse a job because of JSA reg 13.

I also had made them aware of the situation; the gp even wrote a somewhat informal note for them, but it made no real difference at all. I still got all their crap; the threats, even being accused by one of the managers of breaking that law (after she was consulted in respect of who can legally coutnersign a passport, someting i already knew in response to their offer to pay for it - which they then burned me on). This was because the document you sign is a legall y binding document and my signature was thus not legal because i could start a job if i so chose becase she claimed she could find one (which she didn't). They also in response to that forced me to restrict the work i can do to ridiculous levels thereby making me put something i had never done and don't really want to do on the Agreement form instead.

phew.

Mate, i really think you need some face-to-face advice about this with a welfare benefits advisor, preferably with some experience of mental health issues. I know how confusing it is, I understand how pissed off you are, but it really sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

Try the Friends people you talked about earlier, if not, have a look for Mind or Dial like i mentioned before, otherwise you'll need a local CAB or Law Centre. Be lucky

 

[wishface]

Mate, i really think you need some face-to-face advice about this with a welfare benefits advisor, preferably with some experience of mental health issues. I know how confusing it is, I understand how pissed off you are, but it really sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

Try the Friends people you talked about earlier, if not, have a look for Mind or Dial like i mentioned before, otherwise you'll need a local CAB or Law Centre. Be lucky

Being stuck between is exactly how i feel. All i know is that i cannot deal with the bloody jobcentre anymore. I really would rather starve, and I really cannot believe that even if you make the JC aware of counselling or whatnot that they will change their approach.

Thanks anyway, i will just keep trying.

 

[madzone]

they may well be encouraged to give employees time off, but do you really think i would be hired knowing that i am in the process of getting help even before i start work? No employer will choose that person over someone who can work all the time without having 'problems'. Let's be realistic.

Then that just adds to the pressure caused by the jobcentre which is part of hte problem. A big part of claiming IB is because of the fucking grief they cause (not the sole reason either).

Tis situation first came to light when i asked them to help me do the ecdl; i was told i'd have to do it during the evening for precisely the same reasons.

Sounds like you've made your mind up then I agree with Paulie Tandoori - you need to seek some specialist advice. Good luck with it.

 

[wishface]

I rang MIND but in respect of benefits advice they pointed me to the CAB. Last time I spoke to the CAB they really couldn't recommend anything other than staying on JSA or trying for IB as is my plan. Maybe i should try them again.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Sorry to hear that MIND couldn't help, slightly surprised by that but you live and you learn. Like you say, maybe try the CAB again - it's worth being upfront and explain your difficulties coping with all of this, which isn't always easy when you're speaking to a stranger i know. Just sorry that i can't offer you anymore information or advice. Like i said before, good luck with it all.

 

[wishface]

Thanks anyway. The MIND people explicitly stated that they don't deal with benefits issues; i had the number already.

 

[wishface]

JSA reg 13...so how does this work in practical terms? (Or is meant to work, I should say since it didn't in my case).

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Well, basically, it is supposed to mean that if you have some medical issue that has an effect that inhibits, but doesn't prevent or preclude you, from being able to work at all, you can still sign and receive JSA. So, from what you describe in terms of the counselling that you receive, it means that having one counselling session a week is no reason for them to give you a hard time.

You still are required to demonstrate some work-seeking activity each signing on session. But basic assistance with medical issues isn't supposed to cause you any strife when signing on. As for your GP, that's a whole different matter. I'm off now for weekend, have a good un

 

[Julie]

at most till sept/oct. But i need enough time to sort myself out in all areas otherwise what's the point.

Does that make sense?

Definitely.

Your GP sounds incompetent, to put it bluntly.

Through family, friends, neighbours, or some other means, find a GP who knows what they're doing. In this case, you need a GP who has had some psych training. They are around. Although they are a rarity.

Once you're in the hands of a GP that knows psych stuff (exscuse my very casual language), that, in itself, will help you feel better. Why? Because s/he will develop a treatment plan for you. Which is a must! It could involve counselling, medication, regular exercise, yoga, meditation, sleep hygeine, dietary advice, etc, etc.

You need and deserve to know that you're being heard and not be treated as if you're making up your symptoms. It's so disrespectful.

It's no wonder there are estimated to be a great many people walking around with (undiagnosed) mental illness. Forget the societal stigma, our own doctors treat our "just down in the dumps" feelings with contempt.

All the best wishface

 

[wishface]

Thanks, that's really cheered me up. You really got the point, that's exactly the sort of stuff/help I'm after.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I refer to my earlier posts on this. If you are not getting the service you need from your GP, you need to push until you do get the help you deserve. I see that you have been talking to an advocacy service - perhaps they can help with standing up to the doctor?

 

[madzone]

Definitely.

Your GP sounds incompetent, to put it bluntly.

Through family, friends, neighbours, or some other means, find a GP who knows what they're doing. In this case, you need a GP who has had some psych training. They are around. Although they are a rarity.

Once you're in the hands of a GP that knows psych stuff (exscuse my very casual language), that, in itself, will help you feel better. Why? Because s/he will develop a treatment plan for you. Which is a must! It could involve counselling, medication, regular exercise, yoga, meditation, sleep hygeine, dietary advice, etc, etc.

You need and deserve to know that you're being heard and not be treated as if you're making up your symptoms. It's so disrespectful.

It's no wonder there are estimated to be a great many people walking around with (undiagnosed) mental illness. Forget the societal stigma, our own doctors treat our "just down in the dumps" feelings with contempt.

All the best wishface

Julie - áre you in the UK?

 

[Guineveretoo]

Julie - áre you in the UK?

No, she is not (she is unlikely to answer for a while, seeing as how she is in a different time zone!)

 

[wishface]

I refer to my earlier posts on this. If you are not getting the service you need from your GP, you need to push until you do get the help you deserve. I see that you have been talking to an advocacy service - perhaps they can help with standing up to the doctor?

that's the plan; though i remain convinced my 'hypoclyaemia' is actually that and certainly not 'mental'. IN fact I just had an episode, feel like shit (so had some toast). The hospital gacve me a blood glucose device and the reading came well below the minimum for people who aren't fucked up. Maybe this will help convince the bloody gp (providing i don't die or something in the meantime).

 

[madzone]

No, she is not (she is unlikely to answer for a while, seeing as how she is in a different time zone!)

Thought not In my years in mental health I never experienced people with severe depression, let alone mild to moderate depression being offered those things. Even as a service user I wasn't offered anything like that. We had a scheme for a short while where GP's could 'prescribe' a course of reflexology or accupuncture or some other alternative treatment but it was only a pilot scheme and they removed it as it was too costly. In an ideal world these schemes would exist everywhere but the mental health services are over burdened to the point where they are cracking. I feel it might be unwise to lead wishface to believe that treatments like that will/can be offered via UK GP. What I'm getting from wishfaces posts is that the treatment he/she thinks he/she deserves is not actually available. I definitely think a change of gp and a request for a referral to a psychiatrist may be in order but hoping/waiting for treatments that aren't actually available on the NHS is not going to help IMHO.
I used to get the fall out from frustrated clients who assumed that their GP/CPN/Psych was just being obtuse and not offering the service/treatment that they knew they needed when in actual fact it wasn't available for them to offer.

There's also lots of self help info available - for instance books in the library regarding nutrition and how it affects mental heath, books on which foods affect blood sugar etc, yoga classes don't need to be prescribed - you can just pop along to one, excercise can be carried out in the home- you don't even need to go out of the house. Maybe once wishface has a GP or starts to feel like their being lsitened to, some of these self help actions may prove useful

 

[madzone]

that's the plan; though i remain convinced my 'hypoclyaemia' is actually that and certainly not 'mental'. IN fact I just had an episode, feel like shit (so had some toast). The hospital gacve me a blood glucose device and the reading came well below the minimum for people who aren't fucked up. Maybe this will help convince the bloody gp (providing i don't die or something in the meantime).

Hypoglycaemia just means low blood sugar, it doesn't necessarily mean you have an illness. What kind of toast did you eat?

 

[madzone]

Thought not In my years in mental health I never experienced people with severe depression, let alone mild to moderate depression being offered those things. Even as a service user I wasn't offered anything like that. We had a scheme for a short while where GP's could 'prescribe' a course of reflexology or accupuncture or some other alternative treatment but it was only a pilot scheme and they removed it as it was too costly. In an ideal world these schemes would exist everywhere but the mental health services are over burdened to the point where they are cracking. I feel it might be unwise to lead wishface to believe that treatments like that will/can be offered via UK GP. What I'm getting from wishfaces posts is that the treatment he/she thinks he/she deserves is not actually available. I definitely think a change of gp and a request for a referral to a psychiatrist may be in order but hoping/waiting for treatments that aren't actually available on the NHS is not going to help IMHO.
I used to get the fall out from frustrated clients who assumed that their GP/CPN/Psych was just being obtuse and not offering the service/treatment that they knew they needed when in actual fact it wasn't available for them to offer.

There's also lots of self help info available - for instance books in the library regarding nutrition and how it affects mental heath, books on which foods affect blood sugar etc, yoga classes don't need to be prescribed - you can just pop along to one, excercise can be carried out in the home- you don't even need to go out of the house. Maybe once wishface has a GP or starts to feel like their being lsitened to, some of these self help actions may prove useful

eta - I'm really not beng deliberately negative here I've seen people get their hopes up and think 'Right, I'm going to get somewhere now' only to have their hopes dashed becasue what they need isn't available on the nhs. It was the same with getting diagnosed with M.E - I thought it would all be sorted, when in actual fact there's nothing helpful they can offer me. Once I'd got over the rage/hurt/hopelessness I felt about it and started doing it myself things took a radical change for the better.

 

[wishface]

I know, I'm not saying it's an ilness per se I just describe it as that in lieu of anything more accurate. My GP just thinks its stress (hence my post elsewhere). Whatever the reasons behind it, the symptoms hit me pretty hard sometimes. I've been pursuing it for years with no avail; I even asked one previous gp, before he retired and things went tits up at the local surgery, how i'm supposed to manage this if i was working (like say in a shop or office): he said just scoff a packet of biscuits. Real helpful; get fat and stuff your face while you work. I'm sure that would go down well.

The toast however was fesh baked white bread (and no, i don't normally eat white bread. It's just cheaper and I fancied it instead of granary this week).

 

[wishface]

eta - I'm really not beng deliberately negative here I've seen people get their hopes up and think 'Right, I'm going to get somewhere now' only to have their hopes dashed becasue what they need isn't available on the nhs. It was the same with getting diagnosed with M.E - I thought it would all be sorted, when in actual fact there's nothing helpful they can offer me. Once I'd got over the rage/hurt/hopelessness I felt about it and started doing it myself things took a radical change for the better.

I don't doubt yoga and whatnot aren't available on the nhs, it's a question of finding out what is and what i can do. private classes, as with a private counsellor, are out of hte question - unless i can get more money (which, ironically, was the point about IB I made earlier. It's more than JSA).

 

[madzone]

I know, I'm not saying it's an ilness per se I just describe it as that in lieu of anything more accurate. My GP just thinks its stress (hence my post elsewhere). Whatever the reasons behind it, the symptoms hit me pretty hard sometimes. I've been pursuing it for years with no avail; I even asked one previous gp, before he retired and things went tits up at the local surgery, how i'm supposed to manage this if i was working (like say in a shop or office): he said just scoff a packet of biscuits. Real helpful; get fat and stuff your face while you work. I'm sure that would go down well.

The toast however was fesh baked white bread (and no, i don't normally eat white bread. It's just cheaper and I fancied it instead of granary this week).

I get weird blood sugar symptoms as part of the M.E (though in retrospect I've had them all my life) I find that any kind of bread makes my blood sugar wonky. A diet which relies a bit more on protein works well for me. I think the docs response was quite reasonable actually I have a friend who's an insulin injecting diabetic and he will eat biscuits (or chocolate) if he feels like he's 'going under'. Why would it stop you working?

 

[madzone]

I don't doubt yoga and whatnot aren't available on the nhs, it's a question of finding out what is and what i can do. private classes, as with a private counsellor, are out of hte question - unless i can get more money (which, ironically, was the point about IB I made earlier. It's more than JSA).

Yoga classes aren't that expensive and there may be a class which is aimed at low income people. Or a yoga dvd? You can get them from the library. What about relaxation cd's? I downloaded some from soulseek when I was really low. Didn't cost me a penny I think I have a couple of Paul Mckennas cd's on my soulseek account that you could download.

 

[wishface]

I get weird blood sugar symptoms as part of the M.E (though in retrospect I've had them all my life) I find that any kind of bread makes my blood sugar wonky. A diet which relies a bit more on protein works well for me. I think the docs response was quite reasonable actually I have a friend who's an insulin injecting diabetic and he will eat biscuits (or chocolate) if he feels like he's 'going under'. Why would it stop you working?

because when i have these symptoms i feel like absolute shit. I can't concentrate, i feel shaky, sound and light seem more intense, my mouth feels dry. They don't immediately subside either, it takes time and i get like this, to varying degrees, mid morning and late afternoon.

The GP may be right about it being stress-based; i'm not saying she's wrong. It just doesn't really matter as the symptoms are real (i'm more convinced ow, unless that glucoseometer device isn't working properly).

I have plenty of relaxing music to listen to, don't know about dvd's (classes locally are too expensive, they are also exceedinly rare as i don't live in a city), unforuntately my environment isn't conducive to listening to relaxing music. Again this is part of the problem and why i need to get into a wholly different environment. Anything else just isn't going to work and will be a drop in the ocean.

 

[madzone]

because when i have these symptoms i feel like absolute shit. I can't concentrate, i feel shaky, sound and light seem more intense, my mouth feels dry. They don't immediately subside either, it takes time and i get like this, to varying degrees, mid morning and late afternoon.

The GP may be right about it being stress-based; i'm not saying she's wrong. It just doesn't really matter as the symptoms are real (i'm more convinced ow, unless that glucoseometer device isn't working properly).

I have plenty of relaxing music to listen to, don't know about dvd's (classes locally are too expensive, they are also exceedinly rare as i don't live in a city), unforuntately my environment isn't conducive to listening to relaxing music. Again this is part of the problem and why i need to get into a wholly different environment. Anything else just isn't going to work and will be a drop in the ocean.

I don't mean relaxing music I mean relaxation cd's that actually relax you. They're like a hypnosis cd without the actuall hypnosis. I was recommended them by my Occupational Therapist and they work a treat for stress related disorders

I think a lot of people have symptoms like you describe - I certainly did. They can be controlled though, usually through diet (hence the biscuit comment from the gp I assume) - shouldn't stop you being able to earn a living.

What's stopping you getting into a different environment?

 

[Guineveretoo]

because when i have these symptoms i feel like absolute shit. I can't concentrate, i feel shaky, sound and light seem more intense, my mouth feels dry. They don't immediately subside either, it takes time and i get like this, to varying degrees, mid morning and late afternoon.

The GP may be right about it being stress-based; i'm not saying she's wrong. It just doesn't really matter as the symptoms are real (i'm more convinced ow, unless that glucoseometer device isn't working properly).

I have plenty of relaxing music to listen to, don't know about dvd's (classes locally are too expensive, they are also exceedinly rare as i don't live in a city), unforuntately my environment isn't conducive to listening to relaxing music. Again this is part of the problem and why i need to get into a wholly different environment. Anything else just isn't going to work and will be a drop in the ocean.

As with lots of things like this, it is probably a non stress related incident which is made much worse by panic brought on by the incident. I know all about that from first hand experience, and I know that people have different ways of dealing with it.

I honestly think you are entitled to more and better support from the NHS than you are getting, and that part of that support would be helping you get fit and able to work, and another part will be helping you to find ways of dealing with symptoms which may continue to arise whilst you are at work.

Persevere with the NHS, is my advice....

And good luck!

 

[madzone]

I honestly think you are entitled to more and better support from the NHS than you are getting, and that part of that support would be helping you get fit and able to work, and another part will be helping you to find ways of dealing with symptoms which may continue to arise whilst you are at work.

How?

 

[wishface]

I don't mean relaxing music I mean relaxation cd's that actually relax you. They're like a hypnosis cd without the actuall hypnosis. I was recommended them by my Occupational Therapist and they work a treat for stress related disorders

I think a lot of people have symptoms like you describe - I certainly did. They can be controlled though, usually through diet (hence the biscuit comment from the gp I assume) - shouldn't stop you being able to earn a living.

What's stopping you getting into a different environment?

What's stopping me is a lack of money and nowhere to go on HB (another part of the reason for a longer term on IB, so i can get myself settled).
I'm sure these symptoms can be controlled - but not through junk food. No one is going to employ someone who has to piss off for an hour a day to sort himself out while he gets ill. It just won't happen - can you imagine working at a till for instance and getting these symtoms? You'd have to shut it down!

We are talking about the jobs that are avilable (in JC terms); sure if i wa able to work for myself or at home or something then i'd have more control over my circumstances, but that's not the case nor is it likely to be I have ot be pragmatic.

And I have actual relaxation music; im not just talking about music that's relaxing.

I don't know where this particular symptom comes from, all i know is that up untill 6 years ago it was never the case. Then it was. The symptoms are physical (they also include fdeeling thirstier and needing to piss a hell of a lot more). Sometimes are relatively mild, and some are not. I don't have the answers, i only know how it makes me feel (and what the consultatnt said in respect of my readings today, which are not encouraging).

I just want to sort myslef out completely, not some half arsed approach because that's all the gp/system/society/whatever are comfortable with. If that means letting me claim some extra benefit like a filthy nogoodnik then so be it.

 

[madzone]

What's stopping me is a lack of money and nowhere to go on HB (another part of the reason for a longer term on IB, so i can get myself settled).
I'm sure these symptoms can be controlled - but not through junk food. No one is going to employ someone who has to piss off for an hour a day to sort himself out while he gets ill. It just won't happen - can you imagine working at a till for instance and getting these symtoms? You'd have to shut it down!

We are talking about the jobs that are avilable (in JC terms); sure if i wa able to work for myself or at home or something then i'd have more control over my circumstances, but that's not the case nor is it likely to be I have ot be pragmatic.

And I have actual relaxation music; im not just talking about music that's relaxing.

I don't know where this particular symptom comes from, all i know is that up untill 6 years ago it was never the case. Then it was. The symptoms are physical (they also include fdeeling thirstier and needing to piss a hell of a lot more). Sometimes are relatively mild, and some are not. I don't have the answers, i only know how it makes me feel (and what the consultatnt said in respect of my readings today, which are not encouraging).

I just want to sort myslef out completely, not some half arsed approach because that's all the gp/system/society/whatever are comfortable with. If that means letting me claim some extra benefit like a filthy nogoodnik then so be it.

To be honest wishface you seem to place obstacles in front of any of my attempts to help you. I think you've made your mind up on certain things and no amount of advice is going to be of any use to you. I wish you luck with your gp and everything else but my harshly honest opinion is that nothing is going to get better for you until you start to help yourself. You seem to be looking outside yourself for all the 'answers'. The turning point for me (with a very similar situation to yours, including the same blood sugar symptoms) is that if I wanted it to get better I had to start to take a bit of responsibility. I look back at my life before that point and I cannot believe I'm the same person. I have a life that I could never have dreamt of and it came about through working out what I could do - not expecting a magic bullet from someone else. I believe you have the resources to do the same but you'll need to change your focus.

I know this will come accross as harsh and I await the fall out but someone said something similar to me a long time ago and I'm very grateful for it.

You can change where you live - it may not be easy but it's not impossible. You can start making steps to address your blood sugar symptoms and I'm sure there are other steps you can take to help yourself starting with changing your gp. What I would be asking myself is what you're really looking for with your determination not to succeed.

I really do wish you luck with it

 

[Guineveretoo]

How?

I am not a medical expert, I am merely someone who has suffered from stress and depression and sought and received medical support to deal with it. What worked for me may not work for you.

Get back to the NHS until you have got what you need!