Civil Service Strike - What will happen?

[poster342002]

Do you think that if you scab management will look after you? Do you really want PCS to roll over and die? If you are not prepared to stand up and be counted just stop fuckin moaning; you deserve everything you get. If the majority of PCS members were like you we'd be fucked. Fortunately most are decent.

Given that the majority of members in Keyboardjockey's office scabbed, what do you suggest he do? In all honesty - WHAT is to be done? Even if he strikes, the strong likelyhood is most in his office will not.

It's not much good lecturing someone to "stand up and be counted" if he knows that he'll be the only sodding one doing so.

 

[Groucho]

It's not much good lecturing someone to "stand up and be counted" if he knows that he'll be the only sodding one doing so.

So he says, but I expect he'd cross the picket line if he worked in an office where a clear majority will be out. A scab is a scab.

 

[poster342002]

So he says, but I expect he'd cross the picket line if he worked in an office where a clear majority will be out. A scab is a scab.

That's rubbish and you know it. Keyboardjockey participated in the last strike and was thoroughly demoralised at watching everyone else waltz into work.

I think you owe him an apology, tbh.

 

[poster342002]

I think the trots are now dangerously - to the point of absurdity - deluded with their trademark brand of unfounded, fuckwitted optimism that just ignores all inconvenient events, personal experiences and facts.

Strike not observed in your workplace? Never mind - pick up a copy of a red rag mag and learn how you were actually wrong about that. How it wasn't like that at all - despite what you saw with your own eyes. And how it was, in fact, "brillient! "massive!" and "fantastic!".

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I was always under the impression that opposites attract.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Do you think that if you scab management will look after you?

I'm not that naive but I don't think the actions of PCS are helping at all.

Do you really want PCS to roll over and die? If you are not prepared to stand up and be counted just stop fuckin moaning; you deserve everything you get. If the majority of PCS members were like you we'd be fucked. Fortunately most are decent.

I've stood up and been counted so many times in my life but now I cant see the point. The workers have NO power over these matters. Because NL has not removed the restrictions imposed by the Tories all the actions taken are necessacarilly useless and self defeating.


Face it the majjority of pcs members in my place are like me and I refuse to shoot myself in the foot anymore.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Because NL has not removed the restrictions imposed by the Tories all the actions taken are necessacarilly useless and self defeating.

This is a large exaggeration, isn't it?

 

[poster342002]

This is a large exaggeration, isn't it?

Events (and lack thereof) speak louder than words.

We have to look facts in the face. We have to start from where we are, not where we'd like to be.

 

[Groucho]

That's rubbish and you know it. Keyboardjockey participated in the last strike and was thoroughly demoralised at watching everyone else waltz into work.

I think you owe him an apology, tbh.

I'll not be apologising to a scab. If he is so against the strike he should vote no and urge others to do so. If he was right about the mood the members will vote against the strike.

If the vote is in favour then he should support the majority decision and strike. If he scabs on the majority he will be beneeth contempt.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Events (and lack thereof) speak louder than words.

We have to look facts in the face.

Yes, but you only like one sort of facts, don't you?

 

[poster342002]

I'll not be apologising to a scab. If he is so against the strike he should vote no and urge others to do so. If he was right about the mood the members will vote against the strike.

If the vote is in favour then he should support the majority decision and strike. If he scabs on the majority he will be beneeth contempt.

So when almost his entire office scabs on the majority (as happened lsat time) - what then? Why aren't you frothing and foaming about mass scabbers? Because THEY were the problem last time that's led Keyboardjockey to not see any value on striking on his own next time round.

 

[poster342002]

Yes, but you only like one sort of facts, don't you?

I don't "like" them. I actually hate them. However, I can accept that sticking my head in the sand doesn't make them go away.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Please let's not allow ourselves to be diverted from the need for a local campaign across the civil service, by infighting!

Calm down, everyone, and let's stop throwing accusations around, and see if we can have a proper and useful debate, which addresses and attempts to work through the legitimate concerns being expressed by members.

Otherwise, you really will be shooting yourself in the foot, and will be encouraging people to vote no, just because of all the anger being expressed!

Chill, everyone, and let's keep this civilised?

Thank you!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I don't "like" them. I actually hate them.

I don't really believe this. Your willingness only to see the unpleasant and the discouraging goes so far beyond what is reasonable as to suggest as a motive a masochistic satisfaction

 

[cockneyrebel]

Some of the anti-strike bollocks on this thread makes the management propoganda seem sophisticated!

Where to start?

The well supported strike in 2004 achieved nothing? Not so. It secured the Cabinet office protocols which avoided compulsory redundancies until late last year whenb they were breached. Cuts in sick pay back to the statutory minimum were scrapped.

PCS has achieved nothing on pensions? Actually PCS secured retention of pension rights for existing members. So far no reduction in terms have been implimented for future employees. There were problems with the pensions deal imo but most PCS members saw the dispute as a success and those of us who argued for a tougher approach were in a minority.

Compulsory redundancies have been forced through in order to provide the Govt. a cheap way of getting rid of staff. PCS have argued that those who want to go should be allowed to do so - on compulsory terms. Govt. want to sack the cheapest.

PCS have fully consulted members over a six months period and received very positive feedback. In only a few areas where scabs are branch or group officials has there been no consultation. The ballot will be won.

The strategy is not a one day strike and that is it. The one day strike is the start of a major campaign of industrial action. The forms that action will take are intended to be imaginative and highly effective.
The timing was forced by the Govt. breaching the Cabinet office protocols and forcing through redundancies. A grass roots rebellion of PCS members pressured the NEC to meet and to endorse an early ballot.

The 31 January is a very effective day to kick it off. It is the deadline for self assessment tax returns. The work to rule and O/T ban (as well as the other action) to follow will reinforce the impact of this day of action.

Good post groucho and I don't wanna get bogged down in the negativity, cynicism and calls for scabbing on here. But the fact remains in my view that the PCS has had a flawed strategey in the past and has to learn from that, I'm not convinced of yet that the leadership will.

The strategy is not a one day strike and that is it. The one day strike is the start of a major campaign of industrial action. The forms that action will take are intended to be imaginative and highly effective.

Sorry but I think you're being a little naive. You have to at least warn people that the PCS leadership might sell this strike short like it has in the past. Unions have an abysmal record over this recently and using the one day/two day strike strategy, which will never work in the long term.

 

[poster342002]

Good post groucho and I don't wanna get bogged down in the negativity, cynicism and calls for scabbing on here.

Nobody is calling for scabbing as far as I can tell. There's been despair at mass scabbing on a previous occasion and questions over the value of one person striking when all their colleagues are scabbing - something else entirely.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Nope saying you're gonna cross the picket line, even if 3/4s are out is encouraging people to scab.

 

[poster342002]

Nope saying you're gonna cross the picket line, even if 3/4s are out is encouraging people to scab.

Not really - it's a grim acceptance of the fact that, to all extents and purposes, there is no strike taking place in any meaningful sense of the word.

What would you do if you were working in such a workplace? Personally, I would not cross a picket line (if you can even call one or two reps standing outside the frontage a picket line) - but I really wouldn't delude myself that there really was any sort of strike as such taking place if 3/4 were scabbing.

 

[Dave Mullen]

There are a faction in PCS who are actively campaigning for a NO vote in the ballot. While I think that the strike ballot is focussing on too many issues nevertheless I will be voting yes especially as that Cunt Gus ODonnell sent a letter to the civil service urging people to vote against action implying that they should be grateful to have a job. Wanker.

I don't think that this faction are actively campaigning for people to scab but I don't see how they would be able to convince members to support the strike in the event of a YES vote.

 

[poster342002]

The point is still being missed!

What do you advise someone who is working in an office where 3/4 of the membership WILL scab on the day?

What can be done about offices where majority scabbing is always the norm on strike days?

 

[Dave Mullen]

What do you advise someone who is working in an office where 3/4 of the membership WILL scab on the day?

What can be done about offices where majority scabbing is always the norm on strike days?

Offices like that tend not to have a strong organising culture and I think that PCS is trying to address this. However culture can be changed although it admittedly takes time.

 

[poster342002]

Offices like that tend not to have a strong organising culture and I think that PCS is trying to address this. However culture can be changed although it admittedly takes time.

Ok - how do you go about this?

 

[Zeppo]

Civil Service Strike

Everybody walking into work while there is a strike what does one do?

Colleagues I have been there and stood in the freezing cold on a picket line while everyone else in my office walked by me into work. There was even some smiles and thanks plus to my surprise a cup of tea from those going in.

A tough call for some but if the majority vote is to strike I expect those who voted against to stand by the democratic decision. Some years ago we won a big victory and a massive hike in wages due to a prolonged strike.

No doubt there were strike breakers and non members who also gained wage rises due to this strike. At the end of the day, it is do you feel good in your skin - going on strike and winning or even losing or standing by the sidelines and getting the worse that management will throw at you?

 

[poster342002]

if the majority vote is to strike I expect those who voted against to stand by the democratic decision.

So do I - but that message doesn't seem to be getting throught to majority-scabber workplaces.

 

[cockneyrebel]

What would you do if you were working in such a workplace? Personally, I would not cross a picket line (if you can even call one or two reps standing outside the frontage a picket line) - but I really wouldn't delude myself that there really was any sort of strike as such taking place if 3/4 were scabbing.

I was in an office like that in the local government pensions strike last year. What did I do? I organised a strike meeting, leafletted the whole building (1500 people) and spoke to people (and convinced a woman I worked with to become a rep, she still is one).

The strike meeting got about 40 people to it and helped mobilise people for the picket line where about 30-40 people turned up.

Not saying that makes me anything special, anyone can do it. And most people in my office still went into work (but less because of convincing some people not to). But I didn't scab. I don't care if I was the only one in the office, I still wouldn't go in.

Good post zeppo. There is real potential in this strike IF the PCS leadership can learn from their mistake. I understand groucho bending the stick against the pessimism and cynicism but at the same time I think members should be warned about the potential flaws in the leadership and the upcoming strike strategy.

 

[poster342002]

I was in an office like that in the local government pensions strike last year. What did I do? I organised a strike meeting, leafletted the whole building (1500 people) and spoke to people (and convinced a woman I worked with to become a rep, she still is one).

The strike meeting got about 40 people to it and helped mobilise people for the picket line where about 30-40 people turned up.

I've seen those tactics used in majority-scab workplaces too - and they didn't make any difference. Everyone was determined to scab and scab they did. Most of the people who'd even come to the pre-strike meeting (pisspooor turnouts at those, even) and agreed to picket found some excuse not to when the time came (dunno whether they scabbed or not).

You can leaflet and leaflet, talk and talk (the members 'humour' you at best - tell you your 'living in the past' or 'a dreamworld' at worst. Failing that they tell you they'll strike just to get you to shut up - then they scab on the day anyway), have meeting after meeting. All to no avail. THAT has been my experience. Oh - and those same scabs will then whine to you about the pisspoor annual pay-rise. Then you try explaining to them that management feel they could get away with that because the members are NEVER prepared to take action over anything. Cue uncomprehending stare.

I've seen this sort of shit on EVERY strike I've ever seen in ANY workplace I've ever been in. I've NEVER known what it is like to take part in a strike where the majority of members are with us on strike (as opposed to just myself and the local reps) So you'll forgive me when I laugh when the trotties regale me with hyperbolic tales of "amazing, fantastic" displays of "massive" solidarity.The realities of my experiences simply don't add up to what I'm being told and I stopped deluding myself about 8 years ago.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I've seen those tactics used in majority-scab workplaces too - and they didn't make any difference. Everyone was determined to scab and scab they did. Most of the people who'd even come to the pre-strike meeting (pisspooor turnouts at those, even) and agreed to picket found some excuse not to when the time came (dunno whether they scabbed or not)

Well that wasn't my experience, anything but. As said, one woman became a steward (and still is), lots more people came to picket line and more people went on strike. OK there are no 100% guarantees, but surely it's worth a go rather than just doing nothing.

What I did didn't result in an all out strike, far from it, but it did improve things and gave members a forum to actually air their concerns. If the UNISON bureaucracy hadn't sold us out so badly it might well have laid the ground work for increased union activity.

I can see where your disillusionment comes from, but ultimately if you've given up, you're probably best off saying nothing and leaving it to those who haven't to give it a go.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Well that wasn't my experience, anything but. As said, one woman became a steward (and still is), lots more people came to picket line and more people went on strike. OK there are no 100% guarantees, but surely it's worth a go rather than just doing nothing.

What I did didn't result in an all out strike, far from it, but it did improve things and gave members a forum to actually air their concerns. If the UNISON bureaucracy hadn't sold us out so badly it might well have laid the ground work for increased union activity.

I can see where your disillusionment comes from, but ultimately if you've given up, you're probably best off saying nothing and leaving it to those who haven't to give it a go.

I would totally agree with the need to walk the corridors and talk to people, both at this stage when people are being asked to vote, and after the result is known (assuming a Yes result).

I hope that all of you who are PCS members will take it upon yourselves to do this, even if it is just to ask people to express their views, so you can gain an understanding of what people think, and start to consider how to address these concerns.

I hope that none of you will go in there, all guns blazing, and start shouting about people being scabs and the like, and reinforce the view that all trade unionists are angry, ineffective people!

 

[Dave Mullen]

Ok - how do you go about this?

Firstly by not making the mistake of trying to run before you can walk,find an issue that strikes a chord with members/staff and campaign around that keep those affected in the loop and seek feedback and try and bring on new blood among activists. PCS regional offices and other branches are usually more than happy to help out.

i'm not pretending its easy however a lot of people have been brought up with an individualist rather than a collective mentality and it can take time to change that way of thinking.