Civil Service Strike - What will happen?

[Guineveretoo]

In Defra there have been compulsory redundancies plus a below inflation pay deal. Half this deal will be in staff salaries end of December - so everyone will see what a shit deal it is.

Lots of anger - in Defra PCS members will be taking the day off just to piss off management. Yeh lots of questions on where the strike will be going - can we win? No other unions or the TUC seem to be taking on New Labour and Blair - TUC is playing dead ( has been for the last 10 years).

The real question is do we all play dead and hope for a better world just through osmosis or do we get involved in the struggle?

All those posters who are gloomy and negative - how did we get a decent working week, annual leave, sick leave etc? Answer through fighting for better conditions in the workplace. Capitalist bosses did not give us anything from the goodness of their hearts - everything has to be fought for. Any urbanite PCS members out there - vote yes in the ballot - strike on 31 January. This is the start of a very happy new year.

I am glad to hear that there is lots of anger in DEFRA, but I am not seeing it in response to job losses directly, either there or in DTI, which is the other area which has dismissed people.

The pay deals are surely a better way of mobilising the membership into action? I can't understand why PCS are not focussing on these, where it is clear that the Government is holding down pay for political reasons, at a time when the affected people are also being expected to deal with massive change, with major job cuts and efficiencies, with relocations out of central London, with a refusal to let them leave when they want to, etc. etc. A pay cut in real terms, on top of all that, must surely be enough to piss off members and get them to vote yes in an industrial action ballot?

I know that, in virtually every department and NDPB, the union members and activists are pissed off at the crappy pay deals which are being imposed. Why on earth is PCS focussing on issues which are not of immediate or individual concern to members, instead of mobilising on the back of this?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

In Defra there have been compulsory redundancies plus a below inflation pay deal. Half this deal will be in staff salaries end of December - so everyone will see what a shit deal it is.

I agree. Friends in DEFRA are demoralised both from the job itself and the pay. BTW DEFRA is taking on some DTI staff who DTI didn't want cos they were shit.

All those posters who are gloomy and negative - how did we get a decent working week, annual leave, sick leave etc? Answer through fighting for better conditions in the workplace. Capitalist bosses did not give us anything from the goodness of their hearts - everything has to be fought for. Any urbanite PCS members out there - vote yes in the ballot - strike on 31 January. This is the start of a very happy new year.

Couldn't agree more about what has been achieved and the manner in which it was achieved and how bosses were forced into concessions. Yes yes yes I know all that history guff but that doesn't change the fact that I cant be arsed to lose a days pay when 3/4 of my colleauges are scabbing. What is t he point? Why shoudl I cut of my nose to spite my face? If the figures were reversed and only a 1/4 were scabbing then it might be easier to not scab but when the majority is working?? Fuck it, I'll work.

 

[poster342002]

I wish someone would come up with some answers about what to do about majority scabbing.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I wish someone would come up with soem answers about what to do where there is majority scabbing.

There isn't one really. Unless you are one of those who gets off on the idea of being a martyr and standing on the picket line there is not much you can do apart from accepting that your particular workplace choses not to strike and get on with life.

Unless there is some form of voluntary collective financial compensation for striking then the sad fact is that people will scab because they will do the maths and think well I can can scab and have a bit of an unpleasant atmosphere for a week or so or I can get in serious shit with my creditors / mortgage etc etc. When its put like that its easy to scab.

I don't take scabbing lightly. If I scab at the next strike then it will only be the second time in my entire life that I have voluntarily crossed a picket line.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I have never crossed a picket line, voluntarily or otherwise!

I have, on a couple of occasions, had to ask the picket line to be removed to let me through (for example, to try and resolve the dispute!), but I have never crossed a picket line and can't think of circumstances in which I would. It's about democracy etc. etc., innit. If the majority of union members believe we should take industrial action then, even if I disagree and vote against it, I will strike.

 

[poster342002]

I have never crossed a picket line, voluntarily or otherwise!

I have, on a couple of occasions, had to ask the picket line to be removed to let me through (for example, to try and resolve the dispute!), but I have never crossed a picket line and can't think of circumstances in which I would. It's about democracy etc. etc., innit. If the majority of union members believe we should take industrial action then, even if I disagree and vote against it, I will strike.

But what do you do when the majority of the members in your particular workplace are scabbing?

 

[Guineveretoo]

But what do you do when the majority of the members in your particular workplace are scabbing?

I rant at them, from a position of superiority because I have taken action even though I haven't wanted to, and I tell them about the successful strikes which I have been involved in.

Luckily, I am not a PCS member, so will not be called upon to try and justify that strike to scab colleagues (if they get a positive vote, that is).

I should probably add that the ranting I do is as good tempered as I can make it, and I should add that I have been fortunate in that I have always had support from my union when taking industrial action, including strike pay, which has helped! I could also add that I have been on lots of picket lines, and have watched my colleagues and bosses cross same picket lines, some of whom have put lots of money into the bucket for the strike fund, to try and alleviate their feelings of guilt, so I do know what I am talking about!

 

[poster342002]

I rant at them, from a position of superiority because I have taken action even though I haven't wanted to,

And has it made the blindest bit of difference? Has it changed any of their minds? Did they not scab the next time? Or did all that happen was you find yourself angry and pissed off at their stupidity whilst they smugly titter and carry on all the same?

Nothing works with these sort of people. Once a workplace is infected with a prevailing petit-bourgeoise minded cretinisim - it is fucked.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I rant at them, from a position of superiority because I have taken action even though I haven't wanted to, and I tell them about the successful strikes which I have been involved in.

Sadly a feeling of superiority doesn't pay the bills.

I should probably add that the ranting I do is as good tempered as I can make it, and I should add that I have been fortunate in that I have always had support from my union when taking industrial action, including strike pay, which has helped! !

Strike pay is something that is sadly missing from PCS actions. The Union leadership swan round in flash motors and have expense accounts but don't appear to give a toss about themembers other than as vote fodder.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

And has it made the blindest bit of difference? Has it changed any of their minds? Did they not scab the next time? Or did all that happen was you find yourself angry and pissed off at their stupidity whilst they smugly titter and carry on all the same?

Nothing works with these sort of people. Once a workplace is infected with a prevailing petit-bourgeoise minded cretinisim - it is fucked.

Sometimes it isn't petit-bourgeoise cretinism it is survival.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Three words to those who want to slag off those who work when strikes are called where the vote is split 51/49 in favour of striking -- The Miners Strike. It was solid well supported had a great supplementary network of supporters and failed leaving a mining industry ripe for privatisation and decimation. If they couldn't do it what makes people think that anyone else can.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Sadly a feeling of superiority doesn't pay the bills.



Strike pay is something that is sadly missing from PCS actions. The Union leadership swan round in flash motors and have expense accounts but don't appear to give a toss about themembers other than as vote fodder.

No, it doesn't, and I acknowledge that I have been fortunate in always being able to get strike pay (and always to have been paid so little by the employers that the strike pay (which was only minimal) was enough to make up my losses!).

I really can't accept that the "union leadership" have flash motors and expense accounts, though. Surely the union leadership is the elected representatives, who remain on their civil service salary, and are only able to claim expenses to make up for out of pocket claims? If they are all driving flash cars, then I withdraw what I said earlier about pay in the public sector being held down!

If, however, you mean the General Secretary when you say "union leadership", he really does not claim everything he could, and certainly doesn't drive a flash car!

If you mean the national and local full time officials, their pay and terms and conditions are tied to the civil service.

 

[Guineveretoo]

And has it made the blindest bit of difference? Has it changed any of their minds? Did they not scab the next time? Or did all that happen was you find yourself angry and pissed off at their stupidity whilst they smugly titter and carry on all the same?

Nothing works with these sort of people. Once a workplace is infected with a prevailing petit-bourgeoise minded cretinisim - it is fucked.

It worked in the particular bit of local government in which I was based, yes.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Three words to those who want to slag off those who work when strikes are called where the vote is split 51/49 in favour of striking -- The Miners Strike. It was solid well supported had a great supplementary network of supporters and failed leaving a mining industry ripe for privatisation and decimation. If they couldn't do it what makes people think that anyone else can.

It did fail in many aspects, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to take action to try and make a difference! Neither is it the case that the strike was what lead to privatisation etc.

There have been many successful industrial disputes in recent years and in history. The key is that they come from the grassroots, and that they are legitimate industrial disputes. Unfortunately, it is my view that the PCS action is neither of this things, and I worry that it may fail and damage the credibility of the union with its members and with the employers.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

It did fail in many aspects, but that doesn't mean they were wrong to take action to try and make a difference! Neither is it the case that the strike was what lead to privatisation etc. .

The Thatcher monster wanted to privatise the mines but the demoralisation of the miners due to the failing of the strike meant that the stomach for following ranting demagogues like Scargill was gone forever meaning that it was more difficult to resist privatisation.

There have been many successful industrial disputes in recent years and in history. The key is that they come from the grassroots, and that they are legitimate industrial disputes. Unfortunately, it is my view that the PCS action is neither of this things, and I worry that it may fail and damage the credibility of the union with its members and with the employers.

Agreed. The perception in my place is that the leadership is living the life of Riley while the membership pays for them. There is no grassroots activity in my branch. The same members get elected to office year on year as nobody wants to do it. Neither do I really. The PCS has no credibility politically with members in my branch.

 

[Zeppo]

Civil Service Management Worried?

Latest update in Defra - both the Permanent Secretary and Gus McDonald (Head of the Civil Service) have posted messages to staff 'message of the day' - "do not vote to strike".

Other posters who have misgivings over the strike - reconsider. The above messages are to be expected but like a lot of stupid Management - they have not realised how this is going to backfire and have the opposite effect to their pleas not to strike.

The stakes on this dispute for PCS are big but any victory will boost working class confidence.

 

[Guineveretoo]

The permanent secretaries are doing this everywhere, and the Gus message is going to everyone. They have had those ready for ages. Easily predictable, of course, but if all the PCS can do in response is those awful campaign videos to which I linked earlier, I don't hold out much hope!

I just hope PCS realises the winning arguments on pay, and moves away from the guff about job losses and pensions, which will not stir enough people to vote!

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Latest update in Defra - both the Permanent Secretary and Gus McDonald (Head of the Civil Service) have posted messages to staff 'message of the day' - "do not vote to strike".

Same thing here as well.

Other posters who have misgivings over the strike - reconsider. The above messages are to be expected but like a lot of stupid Management - they have not realised how this is going to backfire and have the opposite effect to their pleas not to strike.

Why will these pleas backfire? Do you think that the workforce will discover some revolutionary zeal all of a sudden or something? Is it going to spur the workforce to read Marx and don a Mao suit? Most definitely not so why will they backfire?

The stakes on this dispute for PCS are big but any victory will boost working class confidence.

Victory, what victory. People are angry about the cuts and can see the impact on services but the Nov 5 dispute changed bugger all so people are saying 'why should I put myself on the line'.

We need to build workplace solidarity but the question is how do we do it?

 

[Zeppo]

Civil Service Strike

Keyboardjockey -why will these pleas backfire? In Defra at least they have had years of guff from the Perm. Sec (btw the first to issue compulsory redundancies in the Civil Service) on how wonderful life is in Defra and what a bright future there is for everyone. All of which has gone down like a lead balloon.

So latest squealing no to strike will backfire. Perm. Sec should have researched her market audience - maybe take in some focus groups?

I do not expect people to start reading Mao or Marx but a quick read of their pay packet will tell them they are being duped.

Workplace solidarity - yes it desparately needs to be built - a strike could be one factor to building more solidarity. Workers do not have the luxury of time on this one - the cuts are coming thick and fast.

 

[poster342002]

There have been many successful industrial disputes in recent years

And how many of them weren't then quietly reneged upon by the management as soon as the attention was off them?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Keyboardjockey -why will these pleas backfire? In Defra at least they have had years of guff from the Perm. Sec (btw the first to issue compulsory redundancies in the Civil Service) on how wonderful life is in Defra and what a bright future there is for everyone. All of which has gone down like a lead balloon.

So latest squealing no to strike will backfire. Perm. Sec should have researched her market audience - maybe take in some focus groups?

I do not expect people to start reading Mao or Marx but a quick read of their pay packet will tell them they are being duped.

Workplace solidarity - yes it desparately needs to be built - a strike could be one factor to building more solidarity. Workers do not have the luxury of time on this one - the cuts are coming thick and fast.

I wish I had your optimism but unfortunately the drugs wore off.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

And how many of them weren't then quietly reneged upon by the management as soon as the attention was off them?

Yep. I wonder how many of the Gate Gourmet (or alternatively insert successful strike action organisation -- here -- )strikers will still be in their jobs in a years time. Most of them will be got rid of as being 'surplus to requirements' or dismissed on some trumped up inefficiency / misconduct / timekeeping charge. As soon as the cameras are away the recriminations start. Why should people put themselves through that?

 

[poster342002]

Most of them will be got rid of as being 'surplus to requirements' or dismissed on some trumped up inefficiency / misconduct / timekeeping charge.

And in the civil service (and similarly-structured employers), that will be carried out by "comrade" fellow-union members. Yeah - bundles of solidarity from manager-members.

PPPfffffff!!!

 

[Guineveretoo]

Keyboardjockey -why will these pleas backfire? In Defra at least they have had years of guff from the Perm. Sec (btw the first to issue compulsory redundancies in the Civil Service) on how wonderful life is in Defra and what a bright future there is for everyone. All of which has gone down like a lead balloon.

So latest squealing no to strike will backfire. Perm. Sec should have researched her market audience - maybe take in some focus groups?

I do not expect people to start reading Mao or Marx but a quick read of their pay packet will tell them they are being duped.

Workplace solidarity - yes it desparately needs to be built - a strike could be one factor to building more solidarity. Workers do not have the luxury of time on this one - the cuts are coming thick and fast.

But a different permanent secretary! The current one has only been in post for just over a year. I think you underestimate the effect of these communications from top management. Not necessarily in DEFRA, if there really is grassroots activism (although I don't see it, myself...), but in lots of civil service areas the people who still have a job are either wanting to cling on to it and not be labelled as a trouble maker, or are wanting to leave anyway, and want nothing more than to be sacked on compulsory redundancy terms.

If, however, PCS locally and nationally were to focus on the below inflation pay settlements across the civil service, and the fact that the Departments did not even engage with the unions during pay negotiations, we might see some success!

 

[poster342002]

If, however, PCS locally and nationally were to focus on the below inflation pay settlements across the civil service, and the fact that the Departments did not even engage with the unions during pay negotiations, we might see some success!

And even then I wouldn't be too sure, tbh.

 

[Guineveretoo]

And even then I wouldn't be too sure, tbh.

One can never be sure, but at least it would have some chance of success, in terms of getting a Yes vote, and some chance of success in terms of being able to make the point forcibly to the Treasury and the Cabinet Office. The argument on job losses is not going to be won, and doesn't even have the support of the public. The same is true for pensions for future civil servants. I do think there would be some public support for people who are receiving pay cuts!

All IMHO, of course

 

[Groucho]

Some of the anti-strike bollocks on this thread makes the management propoganda seem sophisticated!

Where to start?

The well supported strike in 2004 achieved nothing? Not so. It secured the Cabinet office protocols which avoided compulsory redundancies until late last year whenb they were breached. Cuts in sick pay back to the statutory minimum were scrapped.

PCS has achieved nothing on pensions? Actually PCS secured retention of pension rights for existing members. So far no reduction in terms have been implimented for future employees. There were problems with the pensions deal imo but most PCS members saw the dispute as a success and those of us who argued for a tougher approach were in a minority.

Compulsory redundancies have been forced through in order to provide the Govt. a cheap way of getting rid of staff. PCS have argued that those who want to go should be allowed to do so - on compulsory terms. Govt. want to sack the cheapest.

PCS have fully consulted members over a six months period and received very positive feedback. In only a few areas where scabs are branch or group officials has there been no consultation. The ballot will be won.

The strategy is not a one day strike and that is it. The one day strike is the start of a major campaign of industrial action. The forms that action will take are intended to be imaginative and highly effective.
The timing was forced by the Govt. breaching the Cabinet office protocols and forcing through redundancies. A grass roots rebellion of PCS members pressured the NEC to meet and to endorse an early ballot.

The 31 January is a very effective day to kick it off. It is the deadline for self assessment tax returns. The work to rule and O/T ban (as well as the other action) to follow will reinforce the impact of this day of action.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Some of the anti-strike bollocks on this thread makes the management propoganda seem sophisticated!.

It's not swallowing mgt propaganda it is being realistic.

We have still been cut back to the bone. We have lost our management support unit so there is now no unit that liases with department central. We are being forced to take an IT system at vast expense because it promises to make people redundant, we have lost legions of our technical experts, our public helpline has gone, we have lost staff who liaise with other govt departments, company compliance staff have been cut and the number of companies they can visit has been reduced.

Some fucking success Groucho. I'd hate to see what you define as failiure.

I'm seriously debating either changing my union or just not being a member of any union anymore. They are almost as bad as the NUJ who gave £500 to the backwards idle bastards in Sogat and the NGA at the time of the Wapping dispute whilst refusing a member (me) help in getting a disputed bill paid by Express Newspapers

 

[Groucho]

Here is what the strike is about:

The Govt. wants to make 100,000 job cuts. thousands of cuts have already been implimented. 1,000s of extremely costly consultants are filling the gap. In the DWP and elsewhere cuts have severely impacted on service to the most disadvantaged. On top of which the Govt. wants to attack our redundancy terms and undermine our pensions whilst imposing a below inflation pay curb (pay cut) year on year.

No compulsory redundancies

PCS are seeking this guarantee and are urging that, if cuts have to be made, then those who want to leave should be offered the option of voluntary redundancy on compulsory terms. The Govt. have given notice to PCS that they want to renegotiate redundancy terms in the CS. Voluntary schemes have been in place but are costly because only those with decent packages apply. Govt. want to kick out the cheapest.

No compulsory relocations

Relocation of work outside of London and the SE has been target driven. It costs money and further threatens the jobs of those employed in the area. It also threatens the diversity of the Civil Service.

A fair national pay system

The imposition of below inflation pay increases when commuter costs are soaring is a major issue.

No more privatisation without negotiations and agreement

Many of the cuts have been achieved simply by contracting out or privatisation. In most cases this costs more than keeping the work in house.

Adequate resources and decent working conditions

Speaks for itself. The cuts leave those remaining overworked and undermine the service. Over 21 million calls from the most disadvantaged groups in society were unanswered in 2004/05 because nobody was at the other end to pick up the phone (figures from the Public Accounts Committee). It now takes longer to process benefit claims than before the job cuts begun (DWP figures).

Decent pensions for all without increased contributions

This is unfinished business from the pensions dispute. As some of us predicted the Govt. are set to renage on the deal struck with existing civil servants and intend to increase pensions contributions.

 

[Groucho]

It's not swallowing mgt propaganda it is being realistic.

We have still been cut back to the bone. We have lost our management support unit so there is now no unit that liases with department central. We are being forced to take an IT system at vast expense because it promises to make people redundant, we have lost legions of our technical experts, our public helpline has gone, we have lost staff who liaise with other govt departments, company compliance staff have been cut and the number of companies they can visit has been reduced.

Some fucking success Groucho. I'd hate to see what you define as failiure.

I'm seriously debating either changing my union or just not being a member of any union anymore. They are almost as bad as the NUJ who gave £500 to the backwards idle bastards in Sogat and the NGA at the time of the Wapping dispute whilst refusing a member (me) help in getting a disputed bill paid by Express Newspapers

Yes, there have been cuts and things are getting worse and worse. However, if PCS had not lifted a finger you would have lower pay, no sick pay 9except statutory, so nothing fort the first 5 days), our pensions would be reduced, our redundancy terms would be reduced, and they would be sacking people cheaply and compulsorily. Of course Departmentally and locally PCS needs to have its act together as well. There are one or two areas where this is not the case.

Do you think that if you scab management will look after you? Do you really want PCS to roll over and die? If you are not prepared to stand up and be counted just stop fuckin moaning; you deserve everything you get. If the majority of PCS members were like you we'd be fucked. Fortunately most are decent.