Thora said:
Just trying to explain as Monte is not part of the 'scene'
CIRCA - crap/not crap?
- Thread starter In Bloom
- Start date
Just trying to explain as Monte is not part of the 'scene'
i just can't believe how cynical these posts are..if you think the clowns are rubbish why not get off the internet and do summat you wont slag off..
personally i think the clown army is a great tactic and watching them break pens and through police lines without violence and instead by ridiculing the police is inspiring...and pretty funny
and the infernal noise brigade is havin it..
personally i think the clown army is a great tactic and watching them break pens and through police lines without violence and instead by ridiculing the police is inspiring...and pretty funny
and the infernal noise brigade is havin it..
aurora green
Tectonic
nes said:
Exactly!
Welcome to the boards nes.
Garcia Lorca
Anger can be power
nes said:
i beg to differ.
been really thinking about what the G8 protests where about. What really happened, what did I achieve personally, what did I learn? etc...
im learning that these boards can be a hostile place with infighting/slagging of other groups with slightly different opinions.. making it very intimidating to make a posting.... ach well ill get over it.
fair enough on the different opinions, but i do see no unity in the movement. No one really working together towards one goal..indeed its all becoming very mish mash out there. seems everyone wants to be their own anarchist.
janis joplin
Active Member
agreeing with perry1
this worries me too. i'm depressed by all the people choosing to identify by their tactics instead of by what they hope to achieve.
i'm depressed by people who only ever stick to their chosen tactic no matter the situation, and who have shitty attitudes towards anyone using a different tactic, regardless of whether they share the same motivation. when people start to identify themselves as "black bloc" or "non-violent direct activist" or "spiky" or "fluffy" or "pink and silver" or whatever it is, instead of being flexible and using a variety of means to achieve their desired outcome(s) according to what they see would be the best tactic for that moment, tbh we are fucked.
these are tactics, not a way of life or an identity, and your tactic is not necessarily superior to another just because you possibly aren't able to stretch your mind enough to see how a diversity of tactics is our strength.
so far i have taken part in actions masked-up and in black, i have also been a samba dancer/drummer, was briefly a clown, have worn the street-medic's cross and the legal team's orange bid, and have worn my own bloody clothes on the streets, in meetings and whilst writing for prison solidarity!
sometimes i am confrontational but other times i negotiate, flirt, whatever gets me what i think i want. different things are valuable in different situations.
i wish people would try to swap their roles around a bit more and be more constructive in their criticism, i also wish they would try to communicate their thoughts more directly to the activists they want to criticise, so that dialogue can take place, instead of endless bitching on websites and in pubs amongst others of their clique.
this worries me too. i'm depressed by all the people choosing to identify by their tactics instead of by what they hope to achieve.
i'm depressed by people who only ever stick to their chosen tactic no matter the situation, and who have shitty attitudes towards anyone using a different tactic, regardless of whether they share the same motivation. when people start to identify themselves as "black bloc" or "non-violent direct activist" or "spiky" or "fluffy" or "pink and silver" or whatever it is, instead of being flexible and using a variety of means to achieve their desired outcome(s) according to what they see would be the best tactic for that moment, tbh we are fucked.
these are tactics, not a way of life or an identity, and your tactic is not necessarily superior to another just because you possibly aren't able to stretch your mind enough to see how a diversity of tactics is our strength.
so far i have taken part in actions masked-up and in black, i have also been a samba dancer/drummer, was briefly a clown, have worn the street-medic's cross and the legal team's orange bid, and have worn my own bloody clothes on the streets, in meetings and whilst writing for prison solidarity!
sometimes i am confrontational but other times i negotiate, flirt, whatever gets me what i think i want. different things are valuable in different situations.
i wish people would try to swap their roles around a bit more and be more constructive in their criticism, i also wish they would try to communicate their thoughts more directly to the activists they want to criticise, so that dialogue can take place, instead of endless bitching on websites and in pubs amongst others of their clique.
Judgedread
New Member
unity in diversity worked.
Hey don't take this place too seriously. It's just a few tired old hacks acting out the more cynical than thou role. That's what they're supposed to do. It is after all the default position in this culture, the safest place to be. who cares, I mean what ever gets them through the day.
What matters is that the whole unity in diversity thing actually worked in Scotland. The only agreement was to Blocade the G8 summit on the 6th July. It had to go up against the largest security operation mounted in this country. 10,000 cops, £100 million budget and a summit that had been moved out of large cities to a rural location to make it easier to police. And the movement actually did it. We built the infrastructure to enable large amounts of people to be in the right area, we agreed the aim of a blockade and then worked out plans that allowed the maximum amount of autonomy in acheiving this, only the minimal amount of consensus needed. People (around 500+people that is) slept in the woods and came down to Blockade the A9 near Gleneagles, people formed small affinity groups and blocked smaller roads, People broke out of the encircled convergence centre in Stirling and blockaded the M9. People mobilised in Glasgow and Edinburgh and blocked delegates and stretched the polices resources all over Scotland. The tactics were nearly all complimentary to the overall aim and it worked. Central Scotland was in road chaos. Delegates were strung out all over the area. Delegates were delayed for hours, some even gave up for the day.
What matters is that people organised non-hierarchicaly, with no central command and let collective intelligence triumph over a vertically organised police central control.
What did we achieve? We kept space open for the movement. If Sir Bob had just had his embedded protest, where the Government decides what protests aims are then the anti-globalisation wave would have been over or at least serverly closed up. In stead we showed there was opposition to the G8's existence we showed a movement alive and kicking and incredibly effective. Even if we only showed it to ourselves that's still the basis for a million interesting things to come.
Hey don't take this place too seriously. It's just a few tired old hacks acting out the more cynical than thou role. That's what they're supposed to do. It is after all the default position in this culture, the safest place to be. who cares, I mean what ever gets them through the day.
What matters is that the whole unity in diversity thing actually worked in Scotland. The only agreement was to Blocade the G8 summit on the 6th July. It had to go up against the largest security operation mounted in this country. 10,000 cops, £100 million budget and a summit that had been moved out of large cities to a rural location to make it easier to police. And the movement actually did it. We built the infrastructure to enable large amounts of people to be in the right area, we agreed the aim of a blockade and then worked out plans that allowed the maximum amount of autonomy in acheiving this, only the minimal amount of consensus needed. People (around 500+people that is) slept in the woods and came down to Blockade the A9 near Gleneagles, people formed small affinity groups and blocked smaller roads, People broke out of the encircled convergence centre in Stirling and blockaded the M9. People mobilised in Glasgow and Edinburgh and blocked delegates and stretched the polices resources all over Scotland. The tactics were nearly all complimentary to the overall aim and it worked. Central Scotland was in road chaos. Delegates were strung out all over the area. Delegates were delayed for hours, some even gave up for the day.
What matters is that people organised non-hierarchicaly, with no central command and let collective intelligence triumph over a vertically organised police central control.
What did we achieve? We kept space open for the movement. If Sir Bob had just had his embedded protest, where the Government decides what protests aims are then the anti-globalisation wave would have been over or at least serverly closed up. In stead we showed there was opposition to the G8's existence we showed a movement alive and kicking and incredibly effective. Even if we only showed it to ourselves that's still the basis for a million interesting things to come.
perry1 said:
Judgedread said:
punkrockfaggot
>Squat this space
janis joplin said:
Abso-fucking-lutely.
Bernadette
New Member
pc blakelock - now that was funny!!!
I don't see the point in ridiculing the police and making them look stupid. i'm quite up for the police being what they are - a brutal, repressive domestic army - and pushing them to reveal their true colours at all times. and fighting back and out of the repression. we live in a totalitarian state the psychological apparatus and brilliance of which CIRCA are a depressing example. what's the point in keeping it sweet? let's get it all out in the open, then there might well be a chance for a revolutionary situation, a point reached where we can't just wash the greasepaint off and go to the pub for a pint (or to the arts council for another grant) after we stopped some symbolic talks (again) for a factored-in day of protest... simplistic but i'm on a time limit, sorry.
I don't see the point in ridiculing the police and making them look stupid. i'm quite up for the police being what they are - a brutal, repressive domestic army - and pushing them to reveal their true colours at all times. and fighting back and out of the repression. we live in a totalitarian state the psychological apparatus and brilliance of which CIRCA are a depressing example. what's the point in keeping it sweet? let's get it all out in the open, then there might well be a chance for a revolutionary situation, a point reached where we can't just wash the greasepaint off and go to the pub for a pint (or to the arts council for another grant) after we stopped some symbolic talks (again) for a factored-in day of protest... simplistic but i'm on a time limit, sorry.
Bernadette said:
It would be embarrassing to raech a point of insurrection to find your self dressed as a clown.
Death to clowns and smother all artists in there own pretentious bile.
Drunken Miss Ho
Communist fuelled on gin
Bernadette said:
No we don't.
We are in class retreat, we are nowhere near that. And it's going to take more than playing games with coppers to reverse that.
what about CCTV, prisons, ID cards, Miliatary force,perpetual war for perpetual peace, Police,Wage slavery,class system plus many more or do you agree with the propganda of choice and freedom.
Just because are cells are decorated with nice objects, sky tv and a choice of news papers does not mean we are free!
I agree with bernadette you dont need a gun to your head to be forced to work or submit to a regime you do not want!
Just because are cells are decorated with nice objects, sky tv and a choice of news papers does not mean we are free!
I agree with bernadette you dont need a gun to your head to be forced to work or submit to a regime you do not want!
Drunken Miss Ho
Communist fuelled on gin
Herbert Read said:
Yes but this clearly isn't a totalitarian state is it? If it was you and I would be in prison. ID cards and CCTV aren't the same as rigged elections, censored press, no Trade Unions, capital punishment, systematic torture etc etc. Fucks sake, beat cops don't even carry guns here!
Of course, I don't think liberal democracy is any kind of genuine "freedom", but it's stupid to think the UK is a totalitarian state. For one it waters down the concept of totalitarianism and our understanding of genuine fascist or totalitarian regimes. Do you think people in, say, fundamentalist Iran are no worse off than us? Course they bloody are.
Secondly it means you're failing to recognise what freedoms we as a class have gained. 300 years of working class struggle has given us Trade Unions, a welfare state, a living wage and so on. Capitalism is not a system of the ruling class constantly getting their way, it's a product of the struggle between two classes. You need to recognise this to understand how any effective class struggle can work. If we were all simply toiling away under despotic regimes there would be no hope of any change.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
don't you mean history is "a product of the struggle..."?Drunken Miss Ho said:
capitalism is something subtly different, i think you'll find.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
also, i'm confused by yr apparent conflation of "totalitarian" and "fundamentalist".Drunken Miss Ho said:
when you say "censored press", do you not think that we do have a censored press?
the basick flaw in yr argument is that it appears to be predicated by history as some sort of teleological trajectory, where things never move backwards, where 300 years of working class struggle cannot be undone, and where we're not on the way to a really exceptionally proper police state. consider, for example, the ways that the gains of centuries of class struggle to which you allude have been undermined by governments in this country, specially since 1979. we are heading for an increasingly authoritarian state, and one where the two largest political parties vie to outdo each other in suggesting repressive legislation. yeh, we aren't in a proper totalitarian state yet, but we are surveilled all the fucking time, by supermarkets (which provide customer profiles to government as & when required), by 3 million + cctv cameras, by every phone call and email being captured by gchq or the yankee nsa, by leaving an electronick trail every time we use a debit or credit card...
bigger, gilded cages and longer chains...
Drunken Miss Ho
Communist fuelled on gin
Pickman's model said:
No. Capitalism is a relationship between two classes. Whatever a capitalist society is at any given point is the result of the antagonisms between the working and ruling classes.
Drunken Miss Ho said:
We have been thrown the crusts from the table of the rich and you expect me to applaud.
We do live in a totalitarrian state the only choice we have is to consume!
Are you a tory what a crap argument 'look at those in Iran they are worse off then me'
The regime we live in is far more subtle, infectious and insipid than any theocracy or fascist government. You are a prime example, trumpeting the minor victories of the workers and comparing us to less fortunate people in far off lands.
Look around you,you are controlled, forced to work, forced to consume, every move can be monitored, dare to resist and self manage and you will be black listed and cut adrift from society. Oppose society and they will lock you away and im not talkning about MPH and A-B marches the govt likes them. Take direct action and a whole world of shit is opened up.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
& the middle class are where?Drunken Miss Ho said:
Pickman's model said:
just use ignore i think her/his understanding of communist politics is based on gin
Drunken Miss Ho
Communist fuelled on gin
Pickman's model said:
Not as such no. The mainstream press is owned by the ruling class and reflects their interests, but we do not have a press that is effectively owned by the state, nor are independent left-wing publications banned.
No, I never said it was one way. The class struggle ebbs and flows, there is progress and regress. Currently we are in a period of class defeat and retreat, hence we have increasingly right-wing governments, privatisation, wage attacks and all the rest of it.
CCTV etc aren't really as important issues as the anarchist movement likes to think. Not when compared to attacks on labour laws or the erosion of public services.
You say we are moving towards an ever more authoritarian state. Go back forty or fifty years - there was no legal equality between men and women, homosexuality and abortion were illegal, there was capital punishment, we had national service... Is the state more or less authoritarian now than it was then?
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