Christianity, Judaism, Islam: And the message is?

[littlebabyjesus]

There's a lot to dislike about religion, but if you don't have a clue about it in the first place, then it's just plain old bigotry.

Depends what you're disliking doesn't it? I'm happy to say that any religion that makes claims to transcendental knowledge is wrong. This comes from examining the nature of the limits of knowledge rather than the content of any one of the transcendental systems.

 

[El Jefe]

Semantics.

 

[butchersapron]

Actually, we've got many examples on here of aldebaran attempting to close down debates or exclude other critical voice from debates on Islam by him saying that he's an academic (which, of course, proved to be untrue) and of gortski doing the same for other subjects. It's poison.

 

[Dillinger4]

Semantics.

 

[Dillinger4]

Actually, we've got many examples on here of aldebaran attempting to close down debates or exclude other critical voice from debates on Islam by him saying that he's an academic (which, of course, proved to be untrue) and of gortski doing the same for other subjects. It's poison.

I don't like that, I just see it as the other end of the scale from "Islam = Hatred" or "Religion = massive con"

Neither lead to any kind of open discussion.

 

[Blagsta]

I think Dawkins would probably say that there is no knowledge in religion. Isn't that the basic point?

There is knowledge in religion though. Even if it's just knowledge about human psychology and belief. Religion is common to all societies, therefore it would appear to me to be fairly fundamental to psychology.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My experience of aldebaran is that if you ask too many awkward questions he just goes silent. Gorski tries to smilie you to death. Both approaches are annoying, but at least gorski is fun to parody.

 

[Santino]

But the reality should be somewhere between the two, shouldn't it?

I would never try and claim that you need to have a PhD in Biology, to have the right to discuss it.

But to be able to discuss it reasonably, and know the basis of what you are talking about, and what is being talked about, there would have to be a certain level of knowledge.

Of course, but not a knowledge of theology necessarily, which as a discipline presupposes that there is a god, or at least that there is meaningful discourse to be had about godness.

This street goes both ways though, and if theists want to step out of their special discipline and tell us what their magical friend wants us to eat and do and fuck, then they open themselves up to criticism from us all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There is knowledge in religion though. Even if it's just knowledge about human psychology and belief. Religion is common to all societies, therefore it would appear to me to be fairly fundamental to psychology.

Yes, this is a different point though, I think.

One says that I do not need to look at the individual religion to know that it is wrong if I can see that it makes claims to transcendental knowledge (and usually it is very easy to see these claims - they invariably feature on the front pages, if you like, of the manifestos).

The other says that it is possible to learn something about human beings by looking at the belief systems that have grown up within them.

That's not contradictory.

 

[Santino]

There is knowledge in religion though. Even if it's just knowledge about human psychology and belief. Religion is common to all societies, therefore it would appear to me to be fairly fundamental to psychology.

I think you are confusing knowledge of religion, i.e. pyschological and anthropological facts about people and their beliefs, and knowledge in religion, which is all sorts of odd claims about the fundamental basis of reality involving gods and magic.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course, but not a knowledge of theology necessarily, which as a discipline presupposes that there is a god, or at least that there is meaningful discourse to be had about godness..

Exactly this. There is nothing in theology to learn, in my opinion, for this very reason. Its entire basis is wrong. Religion is only of interest to me from an anthropologicial point of view. Theological debates are absurd.

 

[Brainaddict]

This is a good opportunity to post up a picture of one of my favourite places - chaos, sheer chaos

 

[Stigmata]

One says that I do not need to look at the individual religion to know that it is wrong if I can see that it makes claims to transcendental knowledge (and usually it is very easy to see these claims - they invariably feature on the front pages, if you like, of the manifestos)

I'm far from an expert, but don't most religions stake claim to a belief rather than knowledge? The Nicene Creed is all "We believe...".

 

[Santino]

I'm far from an expert, but don't most religions stake claim to a belief rather than knowledge? The Nicene Creed is all "We believe...".

Most religions say 'The universe is like THIS.'

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm far from an expert, but don't most religions stake claim to a belief rather than knowledge? The Nicene Creed is all "We believe...".

In this context, there's no important difference, except a judgement if you like that I make, which is that belief in the absence of knowledge, even incomplete knowledge, is nonsensical.

 

[bluestreak]

"History" has little to do with it .... duh. Read the intro again.

Clearly you don't know about history, or the propaganda wouldn't have had any effect on you. It's hard for people to make you believe that Islam is a bigot's religion when you know that the golden age of Islam directly contributed to the Renaissance and thus modernity. You'd know that Christianity has been a justification for evil since the moment Saul of Tarsus had his little conversion, and hell, you'd know that there was no peace and love there if you looked at the headlines today.

What you would know is that suicide bombers and murderers represent Islam just as Baldwin of Aleppo and the Westboro Baptist Church and the Pope represent Christianity, just as the West Bank settlers and the fundamentalists of the Likut represent Judaism. I.e. facets but not the whole.

And it was advice, rather than telling you you didn't know, anyway.

So learn to comprende, moran.

 

[Blagsta]

I think you are confusing knowledge of religion, i.e. pyschological and anthropological facts about people and their beliefs, and knowledge in religion, which is all sorts of odd claims about the fundamental basis of reality involving gods and magic.

No I haven't. Try reading again.

 

[Santino]

Try reading again.

Ok.





No, you're still confusing things.

Can you give an example of some valuable knowledge in religion?

 

[Blagsta]

I didn't say anything about belief (in fact I categorically said I'm not a believer). LBJ understood what I wrote. I can only surmise you're being a pedantic arse.

 

[Santino]

I didn't say anything about belief (in fact I categorically said I'm not a believer). LBJ understood what I wrote. I can only surmise you're being a pedantic arse.

Do you or do you not claim that there is knowledge in religion?

 

[Blagsta]

Do you or do you not claim that there is knowledge in religion?

are you or are you not a pedantic twat?

 

[Santino]

are you or are you not a pedantic twat?

Fuck me, it's Oscar Wilde.

 

[Blagsta]

Fuck me, it's a pedantic twat.

 

[El Jefe]

Fucking 'ell, it's Fred Titmus

 

[Santino]

Fuck me, it's a pedantic twat.

You're really covering yourself in glory here. What is your problem? Are you really that upset because I said your argument was confused?

 

[Blagsta]

You're really covering yourself in glory here. What is your problem? Are you really that upset because I said your argument was confused?

LBJ understood me. You're the one with the problem.

*shrugs*

 

[Santino]

LBJ understood me. You're the one with the problem.

*shrugs*

You're the one chucking your toys out your pram.

 

[Blagsta]

You're the one chucking your toys out your pram.

Am I?

How odd. It's you who wants a fight. Just say you want a fight, fess up, it's good for you.

 

[Citizen66]

Fuck me, It's Vinnie Jones!

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

my lord

what piss poor tags this thread has