Choosing a side
- Thread starter greedy banker
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That's exactly what the Israelis claim about the IDF.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Is your username some sort of play on words?
Neither side are killing as many as they could kill, but I think both sides are killing as many as they think they can get away with.
greedy banker
I have a very large penis
Consensus is that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is disproportionate then, making them worse, amirite?
So can anyone explain to me why they should respond in a proportionate manner? If I were them I'd react in a highly disproportionate manner, that way you win better, surely!
So can anyone explain to me why they should respond in a proportionate manner? If I were them I'd react in a highly disproportionate manner, that way you win better, surely!
Yes, well, Israel might find they had a slight bit more sympathy if they didn't continually treat the Palestinians like rats in cages.
Israel = obsessed with control over Palestine.
Win better? Win what? Israel cant achieve anything with its current course of action except fuel resistance from Gaza.
greedy banker
I have a very large penis
Yes, it's a bitch that.
But doesn't mean that there's anything morally worse about an action just because it's bigger and has better explosions.
But doesn't mean that there's anything morally worse about an action just because it's bigger and has better explosions.
I don't think it's morally right to launch RANDOM rocket attacks as Hamas are doing. I also don't see they have much other choice though, given the position they are in, I may well do the same.
Israel (goverment / IDF) is morally devoid. How can launching a few crappy home-made attacks by people in a desperate oppressed situation by "no worse morally" then the oppressors committing mass murder and destruction on an unbelievably horrific scale.
The logic your using suggests that if someone was to gently hit a guy in the street to tell him to back off, then the guy who was hit would not be "morally worse" if he pulled out a gun who blew the head off the guy and then went on to kill the guys family.
greedy banker
I have a very large penis
Well, if that was a standard response to gently hitting people in the street then there wouldn't be much casual hitting in the street 
Those ones.
Well, if that was a standard response to gently hitting people in the street then there wouldn't be much casual hitting in the street
There wouldn't be much casual hitting in the street, there would be a lot of shooting and killing.
winjer
holocene death beat
Oh look, David Copeland's got himself on the internet.
We may not think it morally right to lauch free flight rockets indiscriminately, but Hamas don't have a great deal of choice. They don't have sophisticated weapons, they can't engage the IDF on anything like equal terms, the rockets are relatively easy to manufacture from heavily restricted supplies. I agree that the IDF have totally gone OTT over the whole issue. BUT I also believe that Hamas have deliberately used the tactic of indiscrimate rocket attacks to antagonise the Israelis into the actions that they have taken, irrespective of civilian casualties that would cause.
Hamas as an institution is a symptom of the situation that the Gazan Palestinians are in. They came about because of the excesses of the IDF and the Israeli Government. The Israelis make a big thing about how Hamas is the root cause of the problem in Gaza, yet they only came into being because of Israeli strategy.
greedy banker
I have a very large penis
...and the Israelis are only attacking because of Hamas's strategy, yes?
I think people just support the underdog as a kneejerk reaction, I honestly can't see how one side is noticeably better than the other... although I know damn well I'd rather live under an Israeli government than anything the Palestinians could plausibly cook up.
I think people just support the underdog as a kneejerk reaction, I honestly can't see how one side is noticeably better than the other... although I know damn well I'd rather live under an Israeli government than anything the Palestinians could plausibly cook up.
Very, very well said.
(not having a direct dig at you, just needing to let off steam and your post provides a convienient comment to respond)
It is morally worse when the bigger bang means that it is more indiscriminate. Today it looks like the Israelis may be using FAE weapons aginst the tunnels, despite the targets being in the middle of built up areas, there have been plenty of images of the Isreali illegally using WP as area denial incendiaries. This has been against a group that has no anti-air weapons, very limited artillery (they only fired 9 rockets today, I bet more that 9 rounds were fired by the Israelis today)
The silly thing is that I'm one of the token Tory's on the site, and a squaddie (TA now, previous reg service though). I'm absolutely frustratingly disgusted by the IDF. Personally I don't think it's the fault of the guys on the ground though. There is a pattern of indoctination and propaganda in the state of Israel that is training the population to accept these excesses. It may not involve the massed ranks at rallys in the way that the Nazi's did, but the effect is the same. The opinion in Isreal is that the Palestinians are Untermenseh, their suffering doesn't compare to that 'suffered' by the Israelis. It's absolutely fucking disgusting.
And breathe...
Having caught my breath from the last post the next thing that got my goat was this article in the Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5505390.ece
It wasn't that people were gathering to watch the violence, I don't like it and wouldn't do it myself, but it's understandable. The picture shows a bunch of Orthodox Jews there to gloat though. These fuckers are exempt from military service in Israel, why should they think they have the right to do that. I can understand people who have previous served being interested (I'd hate them if they were gloating though), at least they would understand the situation more, but these chickenhawk cunts really piss me off
Breathe again...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5505390.ece
It wasn't that people were gathering to watch the violence, I don't like it and wouldn't do it myself, but it's understandable. The picture shows a bunch of Orthodox Jews there to gloat though. These fuckers are exempt from military service in Israel, why should they think they have the right to do that. I can understand people who have previous served being interested (I'd hate them if they were gloating though), at least they would understand the situation more, but these chickenhawk cunts really piss me off
Breathe again...
winjer
holocene death beat
Their strategy of offering to negotiate a ceasefire? Yes.
winjer
holocene death beat
What do you see as the other tactics they could have used?
As I pointed out at the beginning of that post, they don't have much choice. The only way they can inflict any serious casualties to the IDF is to draw them into the towns and cities.
greedy banker
I have a very large penis
Right... and what alternative tactics can the IDF in inflicting casualties (i.e. killing, lulz) on Hamas?
Corax
Luke 5:16
The ceasefire was holding for the most part, despite Israel putting Gaza under an illegal siege, until Israel twice sent troops into Gaza to kill Palestinians.
Israel's conduct apperas to have been aimed at antagonising Hamas into doing something that would give them the excuse for an 'asymmetrical' (read disproportionate) response.
winjer
holocene death beat
I agree, which is why I don't understand your 'BUT...'.
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