Chinese Steel Boss Beaten To Death!

[Doctor Carrot]

By gloating and celebrating this killing you're no better than the "murdering capitalist scum" that you struggle against. It doesn't matter what a person's done, no one deserves to be beaten to death by an angry mob.

As someone already pointed out, this could provoke retaliation by the government, will you be as quick to click the thumb up icon then? I think not.

Seriously, have a think about how your gloating looks to other people because you're never, ever going to get a majority on your side by reveling in someone else's death.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

There's been a supplementary benefit thing in place for a few years now called 低保. Just looked it up for Jilin and seems it's about CNY130 a month, which is even less than the derisory pensions the retired Tonghua workers were getting. Just about keep body and soul together at a massive struggle.
Chen Guojun apparently swanned into the factory during the dispute, got arsey with some workers reps, threatened to sack the entire workforce and then in a bit of a tussle fell down the stairs. Would have thought on his inflated salary he could afford better gripping shoes.

Jesus... 130 RMB a month.

that's one thing with the claims about falling poverty - the Chinese government definition of poverty is about 100 RMB a month. But that's not really a liveable amount even if you really do try and live as sparsely as possible.

 

[DotCommunist]

By gloating and celebrating this killing you're no better than the "murdering capitalist scum" that you struggle against. It doesn't matter what a person's done, no one deserves to be beaten to death by an angry mob.

As someone already pointed out, this could provoke retaliation by the government, will you be as quick to click the thumb up icon then? I think not.

Seriously, have a think about how your gloating looks to other people because you're never, ever going to get a majority on your side by reveling in someone else's death.

Fuck off. This labour dispute that turned ugly was one conducted where the entire workforce of a town that was employed by a state steelworks. It has been mentioned more than once that ex-state employees get fuck all and in some cases have resorted to eating bark and grubs for sustenance.

I'd despair if that was what I was looking at. If it was my wife and children looking at the same fate I would go fucking mental.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Fuck off. This labour dispute that turned ugly was one conducted where the entire workforce of a town that was employed by a state steelworks. It has been mentioned more than once that ex-state employees get fuck all and in some cases have resorted to eating bark and grubs for sustenance.

I'd despair if that was what I was looking at. If it was my wife and children looking at the same fate I would go fucking mental.

Why did you feel the need to be abusive?

I can see why these disputes can turn ugly and yes I would be livid if this happened to me. The goal of any political organisation is to gain support yes? do you really think you're gonna get it if you revel in someone's death? Do you think the killing of this man is going to make the men in suits suddenly change their minds? of course not, it's more likely to make them use their power in far more sinister ways.

As has already been pointed out, it's no wonder the left have absolutely no support and are pointed and laughed at by vast swathes of the population.

 

[DotCommunist]

Why did you feel the need to be abusive?

I can see why these disputes can turn ugly and yes I would be livid if this happened to me. The goal of any political organisation is to gain support yes? do you really think you're gonna get it if you revel in someone's death? Do you think the killing of this man is going to make the men in suits suddenly change their minds? of course not, it's more likely to make them use their power in far more sinister ways.

As has already been pointed out, it's no wonder the left have absolutely no support and are pointed and laughed at by vast swathes of the population.

forgive my snap-profanity, I do it alot and if you heard my tone you'd not take it as offensive.

It has changed the suits minds though, as detailed in the OP. There is no reveling here. Just an acknowledgment that when you push people too far thy will hit back

 

[Doctor Carrot]

forgive my snap-profanity, I do it alot and if you heard my tone you'd not take it as offensive.

No worries.

It has changed the suits minds though, as detailed in the OP. There is no reveling here. Just an acknowledgment that when you push people too far thy will hit back

Granted it's changed their minds but for how long? Where else will cuts be made? Who else is gonna be killed? It's all so fucking depressing because I see everyone as a victim of unfettered capitalism, even those who do well out of it materially.

I know you weren't reveling, I just find the thumb up icon and some comments to be in bad taste.

 

[JimW]

The goal of any political organisation is to gain support yes?

The strikers enjoy widespread support in China and have won their fight.

Now fuck off.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The strikers enjoy widespread support in China and have won their fight.

Now fuck off.

Big man aren't ya? sitting there behind your keyboard swearing at someone thousands of miles away.

I wasn't talking about China, I was talking about the left in general over here because nearly no one supports it in Europe, the recent EU elections are an example of this. You don't see how depressing it all is? That people, both bosses and workers, are being killed over work? You think they've won the fight? Maybe this particular fight but not the overall one, someone else where will suffer as a result of this.

All i've got from your comments is "Yeah he got killed. Fucking good"

 

[DotCommunist]

Not giving a shit about the electoral process does not equate to an outright rejection of leftist ideals. I know small c conservatives who disdain the electoral process as 'just voting in a different flavoured wanker'

Don't make the classic error of thinking non-engagement counts as apathy or non-interest in politics.

 

[JimW]

All i've got from your comments is "Yeah he got killed. Fucking good"

Which is not what I wrote but all you're inclined to see. Hence the disinclination to pander to your "concern," which all I've got from is utter ignorance of the situation this happened in. I wonder what more sinister methods you expect from a boss class hand in glove with organised crime and an authoritarian state.
Who brought the violence to Tonggang Steel? Not the workers. Though just for a change they weren't the only ones on the receiving end. What's good is that a whole community stood up for themselves and won. I'm sure they're well aware it's a small victory in the long grind they're living day to day.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Not giving a shit about the electoral process does not equate to an outright rejection of leftist ideals. I know small c conservatives who disdain the electoral process as 'just voting in a different flavoured wanker'

This is exactly how I see it. I don't see that very poor show in the EU elections as a total rejection of the left but I do think it is in some way indicative of the lack of support for the left.

Don't make the classic error of thinking non-engagement counts as apathy or non-interest in politics.

I certainly don't think this. I myself don't vote because no one speaks for me but I do have a strong interest in politics and I support the principles of the left. I just feel uncomfortable about being on the same side as people who celebrate someone being beaten to death. I also feel uncomfortable at being told to fuck off for not joining in that celebration (meaning Jim's fuck off, not your one)

 

[JimW]

It's definitely your discomfort that's the really important issue here. The loss of someone able to transcend the mucky back and forth of argument to see the real issues is a massive blow to the cause. Without the hand-wringers who need everything to be clean and neat and easy on their conscience before they commit, the working class are doomed. Or maybe not.

 

[butchersapron]

All i've got from your comments is "Yeah he got killed. Fucking good"

Absolutely untrue - most posters, and very defintely the ones that you're talking to, have been explaining the background to this incident, the context, the tensions that have built up and why when they do break out they're often channelled into violent directions by the deliberate shutting down of any institutional or social methods of redress.

You're not going to get very far if you take explaining why things have happened as the same as arguing that they right and should apply in all situations - in fact you reduce all situations to being exactly the same with that approach - a far cruder position than the one you're trying tp in on those here, esp when they're the ones trying to get to grips with the complexities of the situatioon.

 

[butchersapron]

I've tried to find the Magazine (Trend) these figures are taken from with no success:

According the National Bureau of Statistics and Ministry of Human Resources, the number of labour disputes rose 98 percent to 237,000 cases last year from 2007. This appears to be a gross under-estimate. The March issue of the Hong Kong-based Trend magazine reported that there were 546,470 labour disputes across China from last September to March—a seven-fold increase from the end of 2007. In the export-dependent coastal provinces like Guangdong, Fujian and Jiangsu, the increases were 10-fold.

The magazine also noted that in the first two months of 2009, more than 500 private businessmen and senior executives were murdered, as a result of not paying, or cutting, wages or because of the intensifying exploitation of workers. The latest protest by Tonghua workers indicates that class relations in China are reaching boiling point.

 

[Jessiedog]

87,000 'mass incidents'!

I wonder how big something has to be to qualify - I know China is big but it sounds like a lot . . .

That figure is out of date. Last year (2008) there were officially (according to the Ministry of the Interior,) more than 110,000 "mass" incidents.

By "mass", it is meant that more than 10,000 peeps were involved.


Woof

 

[Nigel]

Death to all capitalist pigs?

Sure, it's just a short piece from 2002 - afraid there's no seperate link for the single thing though - just the whole mag.

Good to see Anarchists on the ball, couldn't find anything on subject in China Worker, Morning Star, SW etc.

 

[8ball]

That figure is out of date. Last year (2008) there were officially (according to the Ministry of the Interior,) more than 110,000 "mass" incidents.

By "mass", it is meant that more than 10,000 peeps were involved.

110,000 incidents involving at least 10,000 people!?!

Holy shit!

 

[Random]

good to hear that the workers have won this dispute

 

[Quartz]

I had a friend researching laid off communities in the North East and people had been reduced to eating tree bark and insect grubs.

Allow my friend Mr Swift to present a modest proposal...

 

[CyberRose]

A question for those supporting the death of this man, can I also take it that you're in favour of the death penalty as well?

 

[butchersapron]

Go back to russia moran!

 

[FreddyB]

A question for those supporting the death of this man, can I also take it that you're in favour of the death penalty as well?

No one can stop you, take it.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

 

[El Jefe]

I give up!

that's the only sensible thing you said all thread.

 

[CyberRose]

that's the only sensible thing you said all thread.

Your reply and the three preceding it would suggest otherwise, no?

 

[JimW]

I've tried to find the Magazine (Trend) these figures are taken from with no success:

Forgot to get back to you on this butchers - the magazine is called 动向 in Chinese and doesn't have a proper website but I found this blog whcih includes a pic of the cover of the march edn and an article or two taken from it but not the one in your quote AFAICS (which I'm guessing will be from one of their briefs columns of news snippets anyway). I buy it and its stablemate from New Century Zhengming when I'm down in HK - full of mainland political scandals and rumours but wouldn't be at all surprised in their figures are accurate.
If you know anyone in HK they should be able to grab a back issue.

 

[toblerone3]

I was wondering whether people on here were familiar with the Chinese Labour Bulletin which was set up by Han Dongfang. I met him a couple of times in Hong Kong.

http://www.china-labour.org.hk/en/

 

[butchersapron]

Forgot to get back to you on this butchers - the magazine is called 动向 in Chinese and doesn't have a proper website but I found this blog whcih includes a pic of the cover of the march edn and an article or two taken from it but not the one in your quote AFAICS (which I'm guessing will be from one of their briefs columns of news snippets anyway). I buy it and its stablemate from New Century Zhengming when I'm down in HK - full of mainland political scandals and rumours but wouldn't be at all surprised in their figures are accurate.
If you know anyone in HK they should be able to grab a back issue.

Cheers Jim, wouldn't worry about grabbing a back issue - was more concerned if it was a credible source or a Hello! type thing.

 

[JimW]

Cheers Jim, wouldn't worry about grabbing a back issue - was more concerned if it was a credible source or a Hello! type thing.

As i said, it does a lot of "inside Zhongnanhai" gossip about factional in-fighting in the Politburo and that which you wonder what their source is, but numbers are usually picked up from official or academic stuff here - the article that first popped up trying to Google it was quoting the "Blue Book" from one year on some other issue, which is a load of social development etc stats we used to use and scour for unusual trends buried in the facts and figures. So definitely not entirely pulled out their arse I'd guess, and altho consistently "anti" not nutjobs like the falungong.

 

[butchersapron]

...or Rebiya Kadeer