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China-Russia war games under way
- Thread starter jonH
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EuroDude2006
New Member
While sometimes uneasy at US dominance of international-affairs, surely it has to be better than domination by countries like Russia-China, with appalling human-rights records?
On the exercises themselves, I would say they are a blatent attempt to intimidate Taiwan, the shining-beacon - with Japan and South Korea - of democracy in the region. Note the references to "terrorism" in Russia/China's statements on the exercises. Obviously, China is taking a leaf out of Russia's book by declaring Taiwan as "terrorists" because they don't want to live under the most oppressive regime on earth. I hope the US keeps its word to defend Taiwan.
On the exercises themselves, I would say they are a blatent attempt to intimidate Taiwan, the shining-beacon - with Japan and South Korea - of democracy in the region. Note the references to "terrorism" in Russia/China's statements on the exercises. Obviously, China is taking a leaf out of Russia's book by declaring Taiwan as "terrorists" because they don't want to live under the most oppressive regime on earth. I hope the US keeps its word to defend Taiwan.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm having a bit of trouble with he concept of Taiwan as a "shining beacon of democracy", to be honest.
EuroDude2006
New Member
ViolentPanda said:
Why?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
EuroDude2006 said:
Because while it may be a "beacon of democracy" in comparison to North Korea or the PRC, it's better described as an authoritarian state.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
ViolentPanda said:
Authoritarian is exactly the word.
Only on Sunday there was a massive riot by Thai migrant construction workers in Kaohsung.
And when trade unionists and Filipino Catholic liberation theologists wanted to make a public statement outside the building and hand in a petition to the labour ministry about working conditions police broke up the meeting.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Am I the only one who, on seeing the phrase "China-Russia war games", starts thinking of that post-apocalyptic Charlton Heston movie?
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Your comment seems out of place on two counts.
Firstly i'd guess that is exactly why jessie gave the figure of 25 years, coz no-one could call the cultural revolution 'peaceful'. Hence the ending of it might be a logical place for jessie to begin such terms of reference.
Secondly, the rider 'internal disputes' aside would have discouned the cultural revolution even if the terms of reference had been longer than 25 years.
I'd like to add that the best thing for everybody in the world would be a US and EC embracing of china onto the world stage. Extend a respectful hand welcoming it to the modern age.
Of course, i doubt very much anything like that's going to happen, coz there's the slight problem of having criminal ego-maniacs running western countries, whose only fixation in life is one of plunder, at whatever cost to ordinary folk.
ViolentPanda said:
VP,
Taiwan is an "authoritarian state", only in the sense that all states are and only to the extent that such entities as the US, the UK and suchlike democracies, are similarly "authoritarian.
Taiwan has a very robust democracy, especially when compared to such states as, say, Singapore. Indeed, early this century, we saw the first ever democratic and peaceful change of government in a "Chinese" state. Taiwan.
For sure it's a far from perfect democracy - is there such a thing? - and has its own idiosyncracies and foibles, but a democracy it is nevertheless (and not a bad one too).
Woof
sihhi said:
Well,
About 800 migrant workers from Thailand went on a rampage and set fire to various buildings. Under these circumstances, I can imagine that police in most democracies would take a dim view.
Similarly, most democracies place limits on the right to demonstrate and usually reqiure a "notice of no objection" from authorities if more than a certain number are involved. I believe the UK has some such restrictions. The right to assemble/demonstrate is rarely absolute.
I simply don't see any justification for singling out Taiwan for labelling as "authoritarian", when in reality, it is no more oppressive than most other democracies.
Woof
fela fan said:
Almost!
I picked the last 25 years to reflect the period since the change in CCP policy (under Deng Xiaoping,) that resulted in the "opening" of China and my "internal dispute" comment referred to the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre.
I think this is fair.
Certainly since 1980, China has given no indication whatsoever that it is committed to anything other than a peaceful rise. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm sure that China's long term objectives, much like any country's, involve increasing their global reach and influence. This is normal.
That said tho, compared to how some democracies are currently throwing their weight around the global arena, I believe that China (while not disregarding the many, many, human rights problems that badly need addressing ASAP,) deserves to be commended for its restraint and its rational, measured approach to international relations.
The days when the rhetoric coming out of China is indistinguishable from the rantings of the DPRK are long consigned to the history books.
Absolutely!
Rock on China.
Woof
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Jessiedog said:Planet of the Apes?
Woof
I believe Donna means "The Omega Man", a (poor imho) re-writing of Richard Matheson's excellent novel "I Am Legend".
Jessiedog said:
This is as i have suspected from my experiences with things chinese. A major reason for me starting that china thread. It will be unforgiveable if the western people are misled into believing china is an upcoming threat if in reality they're anything but.
I always recall a comment by one of my chinese students. I'd asked her about the average chinese person's attitude towards things western. She told me that they saw both good and bad, and that her feelings had been shaped by deng's open doors policy (right name?) and how he had said china had to decide upon the good things that could influence them, remembering that there were also bad things.
When you compare that to the bush doctrine of everyone is either bad or good, it all sounds pretty statesmanlike and progressive to me. The proverbial wise old chinaman perhaps?
I for one want an influential china on the global stage, simply to balance out some of the dreadful american influence.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
It kind of sounds like simpleminded crap to me, the kind of stuff the govt says to the people, while it's on the world market trying to buy up US corporations and energy companies.
"Yes, Grasshopper, there is good and bad. Always try to choose the good, and avoid the bad..."
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