China in Africa - a new dawn for the Continent or neo-imperialist resource grab?

[slaar]

Quite a positive report, and one unhindered by the old western chestnut of bleating on about human rights.

One thought after reading that is that the west now has some competition in plundering the continent's resources. Maybe the african man andwoman will be the winner out of this new competition...

Yeah, because competition for natural resources has been pretty good for the Africans in the past eh?

I agree that pluralism in foreign investment and aid is positive. And I agree that all the economic and now governance reforms Africa have been coerced into undertaking by Western Agencies have been no panacea. But at the same time, thinking that China will be in any way different is pie in the sky. They want natural resources and a market for their manufactures, just like any other powerful foreign state.

 

[david dissadent]

Now it is business. It is therefore up to us to use this new era of cooperation in economic, business and financial sectors to aid our growth. The Chinese have already shown generousity in their relationship with us having been providing aid and grants for the military, for roads and other sectors; the mutual trust that has been engendered must be worked on."

http://allafrica.com/stories/200611080431.html

Weapons to dictators, roads to allow them to impose there rule (important in africa where poor communications can lead less control from the center) and buying up resources, its the cold war without needing to parrot Marx. Buy a dictator and keep him in power. Bussiness as usual. The real trick is when they learn the western weeze of how to dish out aid. Tie all the strings to it so that the aid has to be spent hiring consultancies and so on from the donor country and ensure most of the cash comes back home and you boast about the size of your aid bill.

 

[Idris2002]

The last poster has a point. . . before the genocide, Rwanda was actually one of the most developed countries in the region, known as the 'Switzerland of Africa' (nb, this is not a joke).

Certainly it had good roads, adequate telecommunications and mass media, some degree of public health care and education.

And also a system of identity cards (inherited from the Belgians), which helpfully listed people's ethnicity alongside their names.

 

[fela fan]

Yeah, because concern for human rights is such a terrible thing?

Are you aware you seem to be slowly morphing into Mussolini?

I'm aware that you seem to entertain the absurdity that i am, yes.

You just tell me mate where i've said concern for human rights is such a terrible thing. Go on.

Coz you see, you're simply taking the semantic meaning out of my post, and you should be more intelligent than that.

I think, based on the fact that bush is quite possibly the biggest murderer in the world, with blair coming in at second, that it's fucking hypocritical of western commentators to go on about china's own record. In fact it's quite possibly blatantly racist. We have a go about china kiling its own, but it's fine for us to go rampaging around the world killing others.

If i had my way, the leaders of china, uk, us would all be bunged in one prison cell between them and left there till they die. Might be a good example for anybody following them.

 

[fela fan]

But at the same time, thinking that China will be in any way different is pie in the sky. They want natural resources and a market for their manufactures, just like any other powerful foreign state.

I don't think that. Of course they do, and i hate all exploitation. I don't care what nationality it hides behind, its simply blatant injustice for human beings.

But i do think that the african people will be better off with this china move than before. And i do think that just as various groupings from the US or UK help secure prison release for chinese political prisoners, and help reduce human rights abuses in china through their unrelenting hard work, so the opposite can happen. Western exploitation of africa may have to lessen with the chinese competition.

I think the african people can be winners out of this. Some of the reports in african media tend to say the same thing.

 

[fela fan]

Weapons to dictators, roads to allow them to impose there rule (important in africa where poor communications can lead less control from the center) and buying up resources, its the cold war without needing to parrot Marx.

Yeah, if you want to take the cynical view.

Now just so we can have a better idea of exactly how rampant dictators are in africa, can posters create a list of them.

I'd say mugabe is one. Where are the others?

And if there are any african countries in the continent that are NOT run by dictators (hard to believe if one goes by the dripping cynicism shown on this thread), will their peoples get nothing out of this investment?

I don't think there's been one positive voice on this thread so far about china's involvement in africa.

Fucking poor play in my book. Get out of your rose-tinted glasses and guardian bullshit spin.

 

[Yossarian]

This is a discussion forum about world politics, of all subjects, and you expect us to leave our cynicism at the door?

I guess I'm a cynic, but I just can't shake the feeling that governments and big business might sometimes be up to things that are a little dodgy...

 

[fela fan]

I guess I'm a cynic, but I just can't shake the feeling that governments and big business might sometimes be up to things that are a little dodgy...

You'll not get any arguments from me there.

But a pertinent question might be is there any difference between those big businesses and governments if they come from a less powerful position within the globe?

If i'm being unclear there, power breeds arrogance, and so the more powerful one is the more arrogant one becomes. Thus the US do arrogance like nobody else on the planet. China, who may well want to become more powerful, are several rungs lower on the ladder, and therefore to become more powerful perhaps have to be somewhat nicer and be seen that way in order to get the acceptance of people.

Ah, dunno, i'm just saying that attitudes by governments towards other nations depends on the level of relative power they have.

As for the cynicism bit, again the more powerful one is, or has been, the more cynical one can be. Those who have yet to rise to the top retain more optimism, youthfulness, and vigour. I have no direct experience of chinese politicians, but the experiences i have with chinese people remind me of the need to keep my british cynicism in check.

 

[Idris2002]

I'd say mugabe is one. Where are the others?

Well one country that is cultivating close ties to China is Eritrea, which is currently in the group of a catastrophic human rights crisis.

The Eritrean president, Issaias Afeworki, actually received military and political training in China in the 1960s (i.e. when the Cultural Revolution was at its height).

We all thought this had vaccinated him against the extreme forms the abuse of power can take. And we all know better now, unfortunately.

 

[slaar]

Yeah, if you want to take the cynical view.

Now just so we can have a better idea of exactly how rampant dictators are in africa, can posters create a list of them.

I'd say mugabe is one. Where are the others?

And if there are any african countries in the continent that are NOT run by dictators (hard to believe if one goes by the dripping cynicism shown on this thread), will their peoples get nothing out of this investment?

I don't think there's been one positive voice on this thread so far about china's involvement in africa.

Fucking poor play in my book. Get out of your rose-tinted glasses and guardian bullshit spin.

African dictators I can think off the top of my head:

Gabon (Bongo has been in charge for four decades)
Equatorial Guinea (Obiang has been in power since a 1979 coup)
Guinea (Conte has been in power since a coup in 1984)
Guinea Bissau (Viera has been in power since 1980 coup, bar a brief interrugnum)
Togo (Eyadema ruled from a coup in 1967 - 2005, current President is his son)
Cameroon (ethnic oligarchy since independence, currently under Biya)
Central African Republic (Bozize in power since 2003 coup)

Loads of natural resources in those countries. No coincidence.

And that's to add to Zimbabe and Eritrea. There's also a question mark over people like Museveni, Kagame and a large number of other countries where development is happening but where predatory behaviour by elites is worrying.


I have very little in the way of rose-tinted glassed having lived in Sierra Leone for 15 months. Just a lot of knowledge of how things operate at least in this particular corner of Africa. There are benefits to be gained from foreign investment, but most are accruing to an extremely small number of people. Western Aid, for all its faults, has a habit of reaching the people on the ground somewhat more effectively here. Which isn't saying much, but it is saying something.

 

[Idris2002]

And even where the system has one degree or another of democracy, that's no guarantee that state power won't be abused by those who wield it, with bad outcomes for the people.

 

[slaar]

Right. Foreign Aid without strings attached does very little other than to lessen the ties of accountability between a people and the elite. Much like oil revenues. In a situation where economies are dependent on very few sources of revenue, and where polities are determined to a large extent by who can pay off voters the easiest, that's not terribly encouraging in terms of development outcomes for Africa from the Chinese way of doing business.

 

[JimW]

Chinese Security Contractors in Africa

As China’s engagement with African countries has grown over the past several years, Beijing is increasingly turning to security contractors to protect its Belt and Road Initiative projects, citizens, and diplomats.

carnegietsinghua.org

Plenty of facts and figures to consider, interesting that one benefit of the expansion in private contractors is a way of finding employment for restive veterans demobbed under recent PLA reforms. Not very stable or secure employment by and large though, it seems. Also, seems nearly all Chinese security contractors have to go about the job unarmed.