Chavez sends in gunboats to appeal to nationalist sentiment

[nino_savatte]

Tbh, I think Uribe is also trying to deflect some attention away from his deep involvement with right wing paramilitaries and narco-traffickers.

The newly-declassified report, dated 23 September 1991, is a numbered list of "the more important Colombian narco-traffickers contracted by the Colombian narcotic cartels for security, transportation, distribution, collection and enforcement of narcotics operations." The document was released by DIA in May 2004 in response to a Freedom of Information Act request submitted by the Archive in August 2000.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB131/index.htm

The intelligence source also claims Mr Uribe's father was killed because of his son's links to drugs traffickers and that Mr Uribe opposed a US-Colombia extradition treaty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3527538.stm

 

[gorski]

Anyone listened carefully to Chomsky [the link above]?

Quite enlightening, re. drugs and the US, their officials in Colombia, capabilities to monitor the drugs trade and refusal to do so, their chemical supplies freely flowing to those countries - way beyond their industrial needs, moreover, clearing that money [large deposits] through the US banks and so on...

Warmly recommended!

 

[nino_savatte]

You asked "Or what position would you take, for example, on the history of the Union Patriotica? " and complained because I didn't answer. The reason I didn't answer was that I have no idea what the Union Patriotica is or was other than a quick reading in Wikipedia and so take no position at all other than to deplore the horribleness of it all. The Lord's Resistance Army is a murderous insurgency in Uganda, and seems to me to have much in common with FARC, which is why I referred to it.

The horrible Colombian government is capable of change in the sense that all horrible governments are capable of change. This horrible Colombian government seems to be somewhat accountable in that it was elected under the most democratic conditions possible in such a country.

I think it is good that the elected but still horrible Colombian government is being intransigent in the face of terrorist demands to secure release of hostages. I would expect my horrible UK government to be similarly intransigent and would hope that the horrible Colombians are no less so.

You might do yourself a few favours if you bothered to read up on Colombia instead of buying into the whole "FARC is bad" dreck or "they're all as bad as each other" thing.

FARC-EP has bugger all in common with the LRA.

 

[nino_savatte]

Anyone listened carefully to Chomsky [the link above]?

Quite enlightening, re. drugs and the US, their officials in Colombia, capabilities to monitor the drugs trade and refusal to do so, their chemical supplies freely flowing to those countries - way beyond their industrial needs, moreover, clearing that money [large deposits] through the US banks and so on...

Warmly recommended!

I shall check it.

 

[CyberRose]

You might do yourself a few favours if you bothered to read up on Colombia instead of buying into the whole "FARC is bad" dreck or "they're all as bad as each other" thing.

I completely detest the Colombian government and the right-wing paramilitaries because of their actions against trade unionists, not to mention what they do in the villages they come across in FARC territory. However, I was under the impression that FARC had long abandoned their left-wing ideals and were just another bunch of thugs trying to get power. I'm also under the impression they commit violent acts against civilian populations in villages similar to what the right-wing paramilitaries do. Is this not correct? Do FARC commit attrocities and how do would you describe their political ideology today?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interestingly following the news that several Mexican Uni students were in the FARC camp, the media here this morning seems to be pushing a "FARC met with Mexican narcotrafficantes in Madrid" story...

...I'll go look for a link.

Amazing how often that smear gets used, isn't it?

 

[dylanredefined]

Ah, the auld "they're all as bad as each other" schtick. It doesn't wash.

Why not ? Think the government force have the edge of being terrible can't see that makes farc the good guys .

 

[nino_savatte]

Why not ? Think the government force have the edge of being terrible can't see that makes farc the good guys .

Tbh, I think that the FARC have more credibility than a national front government that has rigged elections; banned certain political parties on the behest of DC and lied about its own involvement in the killings. The same government is eager to deflect attention away from its own appalling human rights record and will finger FARC any opportunity they get. This is one of those occasions where the gov't have used the FARC for its own ends.

 

[likesfish]

well farc only hold hostages and blow up churches by "ACCIDENT"
well ira mortars are not the most accurate of things
if they were going to bring peace and light to columbia they would have managed it by now

 

[nino_savatte]

if they were going to bring peace and light to columbia they would have managed it by now

You clearly need to do some reading. I've posted links, what more can I do?

 

[Col_Buendia]

well farc only hold hostages and blow up churches by "ACCIDENT"
well ira mortars are not the most accurate of things
if they were going to bring peace and light to columbia they would have managed it by now

If you are referring to the deaths in Bojayá, even the most cursory search reveals that it isn't all black and white (such as the critics of the FARC on here would have us believe, the same people who like to keep quiet about the abuses of the Colombian govt). The UN report on the tragedy "found evidence that elements in the military were working with the paramilitaries, citing the fact that 250 heavily-armed paramilitaries arrived by boat in Bojaya having passed through three army checkpoints without being stopped." BBC.

So the state doesn't notice 250 - two hundred and fifty! - paracos ambling through 3 checkpoints. They then set up shop outside the church, and hey presto, in the ensuing fighting, the civilians inside the church die.

Or if you prefer the Human Rights Watch version:

One tragic example is the case of Boyajá, Chocó. In April 2002, the Catholic Church and Public Advocate as well as local human rights groups sent repeated warnings about the presence of large groups of guerrillas and paramilitaries, who traveled freely along the Atrato River. On its banks are permanent and mobile checkpoints maintained by the army's Seventeenth Brigade and the Navy's River Battalion No. 50, a unit that has received U.S. training and weapons. The region is also used by the FARC-EP. Nevertheless, the Colombian military failed to take prompt action to prevent attacks on the civilian population.

As predicted by locals, guerrilla and paramilitary forces clashed at the town of Bellavista on May 1, 2002. During fighting, the guerrillas launched at least one gas cylinder bomb that hit a church where refugees were gathered, killing 119, including at least forty-eight children. The Bogotá office of the U.N. High Commissioner on Human Rights concluded that guerrillas were responsible for the refugees' deaths. At the same time, U.N. investigators on the ground received credible reports that despite the arrival of Colombian military troops, paramilitaries remained in the region long after the church bombing and soldiers even met with one paramilitary commander.

HRW

Perhaps the Northern Irish parallels aren't so far fetched after all, eh Likesfish?

 

[JHE]

Crisis over, apparently.

Handshakes at summit meeting in the Dominican Republic.

(Uribe & Chávez shake hands while being back-slapped by Fernandez of the Dom Rep)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7284597.stm

War between Colombia & a Venezuela-Ecuador alliance really would not suit Uribe, Chávez or Correa - thank goodness.

 

[nino_savatte]

There's still a lot of mud stuck to Uribe, regardless. He's a dead man walking.