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Champion Hill redevelopment news and views

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
This article appeared in the South London Press last Friday....

PLANS are afoot to turn neglected parkland into a "wonderful community asset", Southwark's council leader has revealed.
Councillor Peter John told the South London Press that over the next few months the local authority will be consulting residents about the future of Greendale Playing Fields, and prepare a planning application which will "enhance and protect its status as Metropolitan Open Land", and make it a public amenity.
The area of Metropolitan Open Land, off Abbotswood Road, is gated off, and sits next to the Dulwich Hamlet FC Champion Hill ground in Edgar Kail Way.
It is rich in plant life and is a habitat for lots of wildlife.
Hedgehogs, which are in decline, have been found there in recent months.
Cllr John, who also represents the South Camberwell ward, said: "Greendale should be a park and valued green space for residents of the area.
"After years of neglect by the previous owners of Dulwich Hamlet Football Club, it is time that Greendale came back to being the wonderful community asset it always should have been.
"I have campaigned to get Greendale back under council control for the last 12 years. It is public land and all of the public should be entitled to enjoy it."
Southwark council owns the leasehold on the plot.
Dulwich Hamlet FC has an artificial pitch on part of the Greendale fields.
News that Hadley Property Group, which took over the club earlier this year, wanted to move the main stand to that area, has led to concerns that the development will encroach on the fields.
In response, a Friends of Greendale group has been formed, as reported in last week's South London Press.
The developers have said that they would not seek to build on land outside the existing footprint.
Jonathan Coe, who runs the Keeping Greendale Green blog, said: "We want it to be an environment that will be suitable for wildlife, the community and football supporters.
"There needs to be some management of the land."
Hadley Property Group might build homes where the current stadium and car park sit.
Plans could be drawn up by the end of the year, and Eddie Muraszko, chairman of the Dulwich Hamlet Supporters Trust, said: "Hadley's intended timescales do seem quite ambitious, given some of planning matters that currently exist.
"Nonetheless, we will be looking to play an active role in ensuring that Hadley's proposals deliver a new ground that meets the needs of Dulwich Hamlet Football Club and its supporters.
"One of the trust's key objectives is to ensure that Dulwich Hamlet has a secure and sustainable future."
 

Monkeygrinder's Organ

Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
What's not clear from that is whether the council are intending to pay for the new development.

Also my understanding is that the club only lease the area immediately behind the ground, so it's a bit disingenuous of the councillor to be claiming that's why the whole area has been ignored.
 

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
I missed that piece...but it's just a load of tosh really.
If Greendale 'should be a park' then that CAN be interpreted in that might support Hadley plans to relocate us, and use 'planning gain' to establish a park on the remainder of scrubland.
The land was actually long neglected long before Southwark took it over, and it has NEVER been public land. The only reason the public use it now is because perimeter fencing is constantly smashed down, whenever it was repaired in the past, so it became a publically trespassed area.
The main stand would NOT be in that area,the main stand of our proposed new ground would just OFF of the Greendale Metropolitan Open Land plot, so as NOT to encroach onto it. The MOL land would be used for sporting purposes.
I am sure 'Friends of Greendale' will do a fine job...they will talk about hedgehogs, butterflies, and the like...and if this scheme does not go through they will be left with the same wasteland that will be left to rot by both themselves, and the 'local community', who only use it as a cut through to the shops and the train station, as well as somewhere for their dogs to have a crap.
One thing I do know...you can bet your bottom dollar thatvery few, if any of this 'Friends of Greendale' group will maintain Greendale if they thwart the current plans.
If they thought this through they could GAIN a decent public open space alongside a new ground for ourselves. You know a bit like St Francis Park, by Dog Kennel Hill, which ONLY became a public open space when Sainsburys was built in 1991/92. Prior to that it was a waterlogged private sportsfield, for exclusive use of King College London students, and the groundsman kept alsatians on site, to scare off any locals who might have wanted to use it, by climbing over the fence, if the gates were locked.
The Greendale blog man is quoted as saying: "We want it to be an environment that will be suitable for wildlife, the community and football supporters. There needs to be some management of the land."

And if the current plans go through that is EXACTLY what can happen.
 

Brixton Hatter

Home is south London mate

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
I have responded. A shame the 'consultation' is on the Saturday when we are away to Leiston,and therefore many of our fans won't be able to see it.

Interstingly, the all-weather pitch is still marked on their proposals. Maybe this is to include provision for a ground on the same spot?

Personally the whole thing is 'pie in the sky' tp me, without development going through. As I can't see Southwark having the funding to do it all up and maintain, if there is no 'help/planning gain' from supporting the Hadley new ground/housing proposals.

One thing for sure, if we don't get a new ground, and we fold as result, I get some dogs to walk over Greendale as much as possible, redeveloped or not, so it can covered in even more dog shit than now, because that's all local people use it for.
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
I missed that piece...but it's just a load of tosh really.
If Greendale 'should be a park' then that CAN be interpreted in that might support Hadley plans to relocate us, and use 'planning gain' to establish a park on the remainder of scrubland.
It certainly isn't a "park" at present. I actually went down there yesterday, accessing the land through a brokens piece of teh "Heras" fancing along the Greendale cycle/footpath. I had to fight my way through some bushes like David Bellamy "wummaging in the undergwowth", before following a beaten path through the foot-high grass onto teh main area of open land. This is now very overgrown, so much so that it's barely even suitable for dogwalking. I got as far as the old astroturf pitch, where the fance that surrounded it has been taken down although the floodlight pylons are still in place. This is now unsafe for football due to lumps arising in places on the surface. I couldn't exit in the corner near the telecoms pylon in our ground as the gates leading from the access road to the astroturf pitch were padlocked, so I had to go back the way I came. There wasn't another soul to be seen. The main ecological drawback to building the proposed new ground is that a number of mature trees would need to be felled, which would be a shame, but you can always replant more trees. If the piece of broken fence was mended properly the whole area would be totally inaccessible to anyone, therefore pretty useless other than to various small species of wildlife.
 

EDC

A Slightly Less Invisible Cyber Fan These Days
Hardly anyone who supports the preservation of this shit heap piece of land ever uses it or likely even lives near it other than the playing field at the end which I believe is used by Charter School? Whether that piece of land is part of the equation I don't know but that area and the wood should be preserved. The grass pitch adjacent to the plastic ones as well as the overgrown tennis court are in a terrible condition and these areas are more than enough land for a new stadium, it's not Wembley we're talking about after all.
 

Christian Burt

Well-Known Member
It certainly isn't a "park" at present. I actually went down there yesterday, accessing the land through a brokens piece of teh "Heras" fancing along the Greendale cycle/footpath. I had to fight my way through some bushes like David Bellamy "wummaging in the undergwowth", before following a beaten path through the foot-high grass onto teh main area of open land. This is now very overgrown, so much so that it's barely even suitable for dogwalking. I got as far as the old astroturf pitch, where the fance that surrounded it has been taken down although the floodlight pylons are still in place. This is now unsafe for football due to lumps arising in places on the surface. I couldn't exit in the corner near the telecoms pylon in our ground as the gates leading from the access road to the astroturf pitch were padlocked, so I had to go back the way I came. There wasn't another soul to be seen. The main ecological drawback to building the proposed new ground is that a number of mature trees would need to be felled, which would be a shame, but you can always replant more trees. If the piece of broken fence was mended properly the whole area would be totally inaccessible to anyone, therefore pretty useless other than to various small species of wildlife.
This may seem daft - and ignore if so - but I wonder if you attempted that same walk and took a few photo's it might lend a bit more weight to the development proposal.
 

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
This may seem daft - and ignore if so - but I wonder if you attempted that same walk and took a few photo's it might lend a bit more weight to the development proposal.
None whatsoever...the planners will already be on the case. It doesn't matter what it looks like, it's still Metropolitan Open Land. It's down to legal interpretation of what building &/or what has already been developed on MOL that will be the key.
 

Fingers

From Tuscany SE22
It certainly isn't a "park" at present. I actually went down there yesterday, accessing the land through a brokens piece of teh "Heras" fancing along the Greendale cycle/footpath. I had to fight my way through some bushes like David Bellamy "wummaging in the undergwowth", before following a beaten path through the foot-high grass onto teh main area of open land. This is now very overgrown, so much so that it's barely even suitable for dogwalking. I got as far as the old astroturf pitch, where the fance that surrounded it has been taken down although the floodlight pylons are still in place. This is now unsafe for football due to lumps arising in places on the surface. I couldn't exit in the corner near the telecoms pylon in our ground as the gates leading from the access road to the astroturf pitch were padlocked, so I had to go back the way I came. There wasn't another soul to be seen. The main ecological drawback to building the proposed new ground is that a number of mature trees would need to be felled, which would be a shame, but you can always replant more trees. If the piece of broken fence was mended properly the whole area would be totally inaccessible to anyone, therefore pretty useless other than to various small species of wildlife.
This is exactly what I did a couple of weeks ago. There was an elderly man picking Backberrys and lots of dog shit. After being thwarted at the overgrown tennis courts i made my way back down and escaped alongside the plastic pitches which were in use at the time. I didn't see any foxes, badgers or hedgehogs but it was still daylight at the time.

I would like to see a colony of King Cobra's introduced to give the place a bit of edge.
 

Posh 'n Proud

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to slide away from the general issue but I've been wondering this same thing for a good while now:

Q: Where exactly is the money liable to end up if, say at Christmas, somebody offers DHFC a projected fee of, say 500k for one of your young talents and who is likely to have the final say on whether Hamlet accept this or play a protracted game of poker?

I only ask because such a sum invested in the playing side could see a Tuscan invasion of the Conference South next year together with a further upswing in attendances. In that scenario, a favourable redevelopment outcome becomes slightly more pressing and the noises that seek such an outcome become a little more noisy.
 

Monkeygrinder's Organ

Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Well nobody would. It just doesn't take that sort of money to take a player from a Ryman league club. Anything that does come in will just be income to the club the same as gate receipts etc. Ultimately it's up to the owners what to do with it.
 

Posh 'n Proud

Well-Known Member
Well nobody would. It just doesn't take that sort of money to take a player from a Ryman league club. Anything that does come in will just be income to the club the same as gate receipts etc. Ultimately it's up to the owners what to do with it.
I think that, in the event of an auction, you could have got a six-figure sum and add-ons if Erhun was currently serving the last year of a three-year contract - maybe I was being a tad optimistic but any four-figure sum would make a difference to your campaign if re-invested in the squad.

When Posh's current Chairman, Mr MacAnthony, rode into town, our ground was in the hands of a rather unpleasant property developer but Barry Fry owned the football club (and it's liabilities). The Chairman bought the football side for £1, settled the overdraft and ploughed rather a lot of dosh into the squad but didn't own the stadium and land. Fortunately, we've since had the local council (somewhat reluctantly) buy back the ground at a rather inflated rate and subsequently announced that they want the club to take ownership in due course (which I believe will happen eventually).

Is the 'football club' in the safe custody of Jack Payne in your case or have Hadley acquired the whole shebang?
 

Al Crane

Well-Known Member
Just having a browse on the Trust website (as you do in a lunch hour) and came across the following statement:

Meanwhile, the Greendales site behind the ground (including the five-a-side pitches) continues to have a higher level of protection as Metropolitan Open Land (MOL).

I might be missing something but if this statement is correct then how is it possible for the latest redevelopment scheme to include provision for a new stadium on the current all weather pitches if they are classed as MOL? Presumably part of the proposed scheme is to challenge this ruling?

Also noted that the existing stadium is classed as Other Open Space (OOS) which means that development is not permitted unless equivalent facilities are provided within 400 metres of the site. A quick Google map check suggests that apart from Greendales and other existing open space (St Francis Park, grounds of the Charter School) there is only a bit of scrub land off East Dulwich Grove on the other side of the railway tracks which would be of a suitable size for a new stadium.
 

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
I believe the challenge might be that part of the MOL is already developed, that would be my guess, but I'm not a planner. Also, most of our major facilities would be erected adjacent to the MOL land, and not actually on it.
 

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
Just having a browse on the Trust website (as you do in a lunch hour) and came across the following statement:

Meanwhile, the Greendales site behind the ground (including the five-a-side pitches) continues to have a higher level of protection as Metropolitan Open Land (MOL).

I might be missing something but if this statement is correct then how is it possible for the latest redevelopment scheme to include provision for a new stadium on the current all weather pitches if they are classed as MOL? Presumably part of the proposed scheme is to challenge this ruling?

Also noted that the existing stadium is classed as Other Open Space (OOS) which means that development is not permitted unless equivalent facilities are provided within 400 metres of the site. A quick Google map check suggests that apart from Greendales and other existing open space (St Francis Park, grounds of the Charter School) there is only a bit of scrub land off East Dulwich Grove on the other side of the railway tracks which would be of a suitable size for a new stadium.
Hadley's argument is that as there already is a sporting facility on the MOL, i.e. the astroturf, so the permission already exists. The new ground would be an upgrade of an exisiting facility. They say they do not plan to build on any land west or north of the astroturf. The new main stand will be at the west end of the current ground.

We will learn more when we see Hadley's developed plans in the coming months. A key issue for now is to get the Council and Hadley to actually work together. The Council have developed their own plans for Greendales, which do not mention the football club or Hadley's plans.

So, what can fans do now? I suggest you go onto the Council survey (before Sunday), and make the following points, or similar.

1. Suggest the questions in the survey about current access to Greendales is garbage, as its technically closed.
2. Get across that they should cooperate with Hadley to deliver the best interests for fans, local residents and the wider community.
3. The Council's current report is biased in seeking to protect the biodiversity of the area over and above Southwark Council's own "open space" objectives, i.e.:
- Ensuring that open spaces are accessible and continue to support tourism and businesses as well as meeting the needs of local residents
- Improving educational aspects and outdoor learning
- Improving opportunities for young people
- Providing multifunctional open spaces with a range of recreation types available

A permanent 4G pitch with access to the commuity, and a permanent home for Aspire academy would go a long way to meeting these objectives.
 

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
From the Dulwich Society

Dulwich Hamlet Football Club
Published on Tuesday, 22 July 2014 15:11

Football has been played at Dulwich Hamlet since 1893 - the club is in the Isthmian League, but the number of supporters has been falling in recent years and the present stadium, with its three floors in the main stand, has long been a massive financial drain. The current owners have begun a public consultation process to build a new football ground on Greendale (the first presentation was on 19 July), the open area to the west of the stadium which is currently designated as Metropolitan Open Land. The club has a lease for Greendale from Southwark Council until 2015.

The club moved into the present stadium in 1992, following the demolition of the old Champion Hill Stadium – now the site of the Sainsbury’s supermarket. As part of that development a Section 106 Agreement was signed between Southwark Council, J Sainsbury and Kings College London (the then freeholders) to restrict use of the club site to recreational, leisure or educational purposes.

In 2008 Kings’ College, the long standing freeholders, sold the freehold to DHPD Ltd (a property company). In 2010 they made a planning application for 60 flats on the car park (ref 11-AP-2250). The scheme was withdrawn in November 2010 probably because the Council said there was no chance of an approval. A further scheme was submitted in 2011 (ref 11-AP-2280). It was rejected in February 2012 on the grounds that building on Metropolitan Open Land would contravene council policies.

In May 2012, DHPD Ltd. went into administration. The freehold was bought by Hadley Property Group in February 2014 and, shortly afterwards, Hadley took day to control of the club and paid off a significant number of the club’s debts. The firm has made no secret that it is looking to redevelop some or all of the current ground, with the club being moved to more appropriate facilities nearby.

In summary then, there have been two relatively recent planning applications to develop the existing stadium site and move the football ground onto Greendale and they have all been turned down as contravening the Council’s policy on development on MOL. None have been tested at appeal.
Is there anything different about the current proposal other than the implied threat that is the scheme does not go ahead the club will close? The answer is no and, while residents might regret the loss of the football club, the consequences for the surrounding area for allowing development on MOL are very serious. We cannot allow a precedent to be set. The Council needs to stand by its policies and, in fairness, up till now it has done so, and Peter John, the leader of the Council is recently on record as saying that there will be no development on Greendale because it is MOL. Hadley should go elsewhere
 

PartisanDulwich

Well-Known Member
This statement from Dulwich Society has some obvious glaring mistakes

We need to respond to such statements constructively as possible and not react in a derogatory way

We need to smother The Dulwich Society with love

(That said if this was a Cricket or Tennis club ............)

Football obviously categorised along with pigeon racing and bear baiting
 

Dulwich Mishi

Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!
R.I.P.
Where does the Dulwich Society statment originate from?

Though at least they know the day of when we moved to our current ground. In their comments to the London Assembly, on their website, our Trust said it was 1993. D'oh!
 

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
I hear rumours that there have been very few objections to Southwark Council's plans for Greendale. The current plans only mention the club as a tenant with an expiring lease. It completely ignores the positive contribution the club makes to the community and the potential for greater cooperation between the Council and the club.

It's really important that they get the message that this must change in the next stage of the consultation. PLEASE SPEND 5 MINUTES TONIGHT TO COMPLETE THE SURVEY TONIGHT. The survey closes tonight.

The link and guidance on what you can say (if you agree with it) is here - http://dhst.org.uk/dulwich-hamlet-fans-asked-to-urgently-respond-to-greendales-consultation-today/
 

Al Crane

Well-Known Member
I hear rumours that there have been very few objections to Southwark Council's plans for Greendale. The current plans only mention the club as a tenant with an expiring lease. It completely ignores the positive contribution the club makes to the community and the potential for greater cooperation between the Council and the club.

It's really important that they get the message that this must change in the next stage of the consultation. PLEASE SPEND 5 MINUTES TONIGHT TO COMPLETE THE SURVEY TONIGHT. The survey closes tonight.

The link and guidance on what you can say (if you agree with it) is here - http://dhst.org.uk/dulwich-hamlet-fans-asked-to-urgently-respond-to-greendales-consultation-today/
Survey done!
 

Monkeygrinder's Organ

Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Survey done. I have to say in my opinion it's outright dishonest though. They're encouraging people to claim all sorts of current uses of the land that we know don't happen. Looks worryingly like a stitch-up.
 

zenie

>^^<
You're not looking hard enough. There are two access points onto greendale. I love walking dogs on there and the dogs love it to.

Have seen foxes in there for sure, can imagine hedgehogs are there too but unsure about badgers!! :D

Am signing up to the Greenland campaign. It's truly a forgotten and neglected space, though the first time I came across it I found that quite charming. :)

I'm still unclear as to whether I'm trespassing or not? :confused:
 
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