Catholic church covered up abuse by over 300 priests in Pennsylvania

[Celyn]

Yes, exactly. The schools are selecting the children who have access to what you describe.

I don't think that's how it works here in Scotland. I think they're pretty keen to get any pupils they can get their hands on*. Well, you would, wouldn't you? If you want your religion to keep going, you want as big a flock as possible. My Catholic cousins all attended R.C. state schools, and they really didn't have well-educated parents or bookish homes.


* not the best phrase, but stet anyway.

 

[Sue]

I don't think that's how it works here in Scotland. I think they're pretty keen to get any pupils they can get their hands on*. Well, you would, wouldn't you? If you want your religion to keep going, you want as big a flock as possible. My Catholic cousins all attended R.C. state schools, and they really didn't have well-educated parents or bookish homes.


* not the best phrase, but stet anyway.

I'd agree. I went to Catholic primary and secondary schools (the latter was 50-50 Catholic/non-Catholic kids) and the Catholic kids were generally and quite noticeably from lower socio-economic backgrounds than the non-Catholic kids.

 

[Celyn]

I didn't mean that the RC kids are always of low -socio-economic background, just that I'm not aware of there being any selection of pupils. Ah, come to think of it, I think all state schools in Scotland are comprehensive, but it's a long time since I ever darkened the door of one, so I could be wrong.

ETA - Oh shit. I have just realised that I left school 40 years ago. I wish I hadn't noticed that.

 

[Sue]

I didn't mean that the RC kids are always of low -socio-economic background, just that I'm not aware of there being any selection of pupils. Ah, come to think of it, I think all state schools in Scotland are comprehensive, but it's a long time since I ever darkened the door of one, so I could be wrong.

Oh sorry, no selection of course though guess Catholic kids might get precedence if there was a shortage of places, given councils have a legal obligation to provide Catholic schooling to those Catholics who want that for their kids.

Certainly there were no non-Catholic kids at my primary but given it was practically falling down, people weren't exactly fighting to send their kids there.

 

[Celyn]

The selection I meant was selection on ability or previous school results - that sort of thing. Around here, I think quite a few Muslim people like to send their kids to Catholic school.

Edit: of course the "ability" and school performance do have some correlation with wealth or lack of, as another poster or two said earlier. Damn, I'm getting too old to post sensibly.

 

[cupid_stunt]

... given councils have a legal obligation to provide Catholic schooling to those Catholics who want that for their kids.

Do they?

If so, that's totally fucked-up.

 

[Celyn]

...
Certainly there were no non-Catholic kids at my primary but given it was practically falling down, people weren't exactly fighting to send their kids there.

Just remembered an irrelevant thing. Once when my Mum was explaining that the reason for our move just a mile or two away when I was a child was to avoid me being in the same school as the horrible son of the very horrible neighbours, I said (not entirely seriously) "but there was St. Whatsits just at the top of the street. You could just have quickly converted us and sent us all there and it was much nearer anyway". Mum (brought up Catholic) said it had never even occurred to her. Huh, I might have put up with a bit of religious indoctrination if it meant getting out of bed later and just trotting 3 minutes up the road.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The church doesn't even automatically excommunicate pedophile priests, unlike people who have abortions...

No shit! That would be akin to the cops expelling cunts.

 

[Celyn]

Do they?

If so, that's totally fucked-up.

They do. It is because of some deal done way back. The RC church ran some schools. At some point, the church and the education authorities agreed that the state would sort of take over the RC schools but would always maintain them as Catholic and full of Catholic teaching etc.

It is a bit fucked up in that it is essentially special treatment for one subset of one religion. There is no equivalent requirement to provide special schools for this or that group of Muslim or Jews or Sikhs or Pastafarians. However, like a bundle of things, this situation arose in a historical context.

The above is a pretty low-grade explanation but my computer is moody and I didn't want to open a new tab to Google for a proper one. Sorry.

 

[Sue]

Do they?

If so, that's totally fucked-up.

Scottish Catholic Education Service | SCES | Questions parents ask

The stuff around approving teachers is even worse.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

They do. It is because of some deal done way back. The RC church ran some schools. At some point, the church and the education authorities agreed that the state would sort of take over the RC schools but would always maintain them as Catholic and full of Catholic teaching etc.

It is a bit fucked up in that it is essentially special treatment for one subset of one religion. There is no equivalent requirement to provide special schools for this or that group of Muslim or Jews or Sikhs or Pastafarians. However, like a bundle of things, this situation arose in a historical context.

The above is a pretty low-grade explanation but my computer is moody and I didn't want to open a new tab to Google for a proper one. Sorry.

Does the church of England fund all its own schools? Just curious.

 

[cupid_stunt]

They do. It is because of some deal done way back. The RC church ran some schools. At some point, the church and the education authorities agreed that the state would sort of take over the RC schools but would always maintain them as Catholic and full of Catholic teaching etc.

It is a bit fucked up in that it is essentially special treatment for one subset of one religion. There is no equivalent requirement to provide special schools for this or that group of Muslim or Jews or Sikhs or Pastafarians. However, like a bundle of things, this situation arose in a historical context.

The above is a pretty low-grade explanation but my computer is moody and I didn't want to open a new tab to Google for a proper one. Sorry.

That's truly fucked-up, but not surprising, the RC church has always managed to get special treatment, but that should be stopped, as it should with any other church(es).

As a radio anorak, I am aware that in 1936, the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) recognised Vatican Radio as a "special case" and authorised its broadcasting without any geographical limits, no actual country was given such rights, it boils my piss TBH.

 

[Celyn]

Scottish Catholic Education Service | SCES | Questions parents ask

The stuff around approving teachers is even worse.

Ah. Thanks, Sue. I see it mentions a Jewish school, and I did kind of think there might be one while posting but was not sure.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Does the church of England fund all its own schools? Just curious.

Ah .it's ok...I just looked it up.

"Education in England includes various types of state-funded faith school, including Voluntary Aided (VA) schools, Voluntary Controlled (VC) schools, and Faith Academies. The two main providers of faith schools in England are the Church of England and the Catholic Education Service."

 

[cupid_stunt]

Ah .it's ok...I just looked it up.

"Education in England includes various types of state-funded faith school, including Voluntary Aided (VA) schools, Voluntary Controlled (VC) schools, and Faith Academies. The two main providers of faith schools in England are the Church of England and the Catholic Education Service."

I was just about to reply to you, and you answered yourself.

I am of the view that all faiths should be kept out of schools, it's 2018 FFS.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I was just about to reply to you, and you answered yourself.

I am of the view that all faiths should be kept out of schools, it's 2018 FFS.

Absolutely.

 

[Ralph Llama]

Let`s not demonise Catholicism.

I have worked with these before. They do a hell of a lot of good work.
London Catholic Worker

and of course the dissident Catholic priests in South America.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Let`s not demonise Catholicism.

No need too, the church has done that to themselves.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

No need too, the church has done that to themselves.

That's the hierarchy.
There are decent Catholic people around.. most of the victims in Ireland are also Catholics...Christians..

 

[Ralph Llama]

No need too, the church has done that to themselves.

Try harder.... you could have said ` well they demonise everything else` for example.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Let`s not demonise Catholicism.

I have worked with these before. They do a hell of a lot of good work.
London Catholic Worker

and of course the dissident Catholic priests in South America.

Some of the kindest people are the Capuchin monks. They provide free meals everyday in many locations around Ireland. Many people rely on them and they aren't into bigging themselves up.

 

[vanya]

Suffer the little children to come unto me...

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Suffer the little children to come unto me...

Abusers are everywhere. Every creed and none.

 

[Celyn]

Let`s not demonise Catholicism.

Good that no-one is doing so.

I have worked with these before. They do a hell of a lot of good work.
London Catholic Worker

and of course the dissident Catholic priests in South America.

Agreed. Many people doing good work and very brave work.


Was Pope Francis very much part of the liberation theology in Argentina?

 

[Ralph Llama]

Not quite ... here is Chomsky on just this subject:

 

[Celyn]

Some of the kindest people are the Capuchin monks. They provide free meals everyday in many locations around Ireland. Many people rely on them and they aren't into bigging themselves up.

Well, that's sort of the thing, really, isn't it? Provide food for all who need it and "and they aren't into bigging themselves up*.

Problem is about the amount of power of an extremely large organisation and the abuse of that power and the toleration of crimes, the complete refusal to report crimes to the police ...

* well, quite. Matthew something or other. Left hand, right hand.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Well, that's sort of the thing, really, isn't it? Provide food for all who need it and "and they aren't into bigging themselves up*.

Problem is about the amount of power of an extremely large organisation and the abuse of that power and the toleration of crimes, the complete refusal to report crimes to the police ...

* well, quite. Matthew something or other. Left hand, right hand.

I do understand what the problem is. And it's a massive one. Corruption and abuse and people who are above the law....And at the same time these people are dictating other people's lives.

My point earlier was that there are very decent Catholics in the world.

 

[Ralph Llama]

I think, as in politics, it is the central state, the Vatican, that is the problem . My m8 describes himself as an Anarchist Catholic ..... took me a while to get my head round that one

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I think, as in politics, it is the central state, the Vatican, that is the problem . My m8 describes himself as an Anarchist Catholic ..... took me a while to get my head round that one

Well...if you think about it at all Christ was an anarchist.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Suffer the little children to who come unto me...

FFY