seventh bullet
sovietwave
Where did they put the bodies?
Castro crap/not crap
- Thread starter golightly
- Start date
Where did they put the bodies?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Fairly recently Cuban exile groups in America proposed setting up a guided tour of mass graves in Cuba as part of the re-opening of tourist links between the US and Cuba.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
lol
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Dark tourism is popular.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
He did give an awful lot of dreadfully windy speeches. Not a great respecter of human rights. Not very popular in Miami.
On the other hand:
Not quite Pipe Smoker Of The Year but getting there.
On the other hand:
Not quite Pipe Smoker Of The Year but getting there.
not-bono-ever
meh
Not as bad as many other dictators in terms gross levels of bloodshed.Though he had a bit of a splurge during '59
Castro was a brutal man in a brutal time. Much of what he did was unforgivable - it would have been better if he had died long ago, and even better if the conditions that he thrived in had never existed at all.
But here is a chart of infant mortality rates in the Caribbean.
Infant mortality rate by country - Thematic Map - Central America & the Caribbean
Haiti tops the list at 49 per 1,000 births.
In the Dominican Republic, possibly the Caribbean nation most like Cuba, and one which followed the same path from dictatorship to authoritarian, US-allied, oligarchy-dominated, nominally democratic nation that Cuba might have done under other circumstances, the figure is 20.
In Puerto Rico, which is part of the United States of America, the statistic is 8 per 1,000 births.
In the Cayman Islands, an extremely rich British colony, it is 6.
In Cuba, the number is 5.
So while I might want to change my vote from "not crap" to "crap," I think he still qualifies as "a lot less crap than the likely alternative."
But here is a chart of infant mortality rates in the Caribbean.
Infant mortality rate by country - Thematic Map - Central America & the Caribbean
Haiti tops the list at 49 per 1,000 births.
In the Dominican Republic, possibly the Caribbean nation most like Cuba, and one which followed the same path from dictatorship to authoritarian, US-allied, oligarchy-dominated, nominally democratic nation that Cuba might have done under other circumstances, the figure is 20.
In Puerto Rico, which is part of the United States of America, the statistic is 8 per 1,000 births.
In the Cayman Islands, an extremely rich British colony, it is 6.
In Cuba, the number is 5.
So while I might want to change my vote from "not crap" to "crap," I think he still qualifies as "a lot less crap than the likely alternative."
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Better than what he replaced.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Almost like Cuba and Cubans don't exist. Only Americans and what the American state does. I don't see any problems with that way if proceeding.
We do seem to have been encouraged, perhaps by imperialist school history books lacking any kind of nuance, though no less by weighty pronouncements from tiny alphabetty-spaghetty left-wing parties that "they unflinchingly support the liberation struggle of the freedom-loving people of wherever" when in fact one bunch of bloodthirsty leeches was happily taking over from another but the ones taking over were making the right (ie left) noises, to polarise our opinions of people and events into "goodies" and " baddies" and "good things" or "bad things".
It's as if everything and everyone has to be put on one side or another of a cosmic kitchen scale.
Castro was not x or y, he was x and y.
It's as if everything and everyone has to be put on one side or another of a cosmic kitchen scale.
Castro was not x or y, he was x and y.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
the black book of communist crimes claims he killed 30000 up to the 70's which is bullshit
batista killed 20000 in less than ten years
compared to Crimes Against Humanity in Guatemala | PBI United Kingdom
Justice in El Salvador | The Huffington Post 75000 civillians dead
so even the wildly inflated claims of his crimes are half as bad as a yankee backed tryant
seventh bullet
sovietwave
What, accurately, were his crimes?
not-bono-ever
meh
the Chinese news rags think he was great
Tom A
Goat among sheep
As much as he can be considered among the least worst of Latin American dictators (as in nowhere in the same league as Pinochet, Videla et al), and the probably the least worst Communist leader after Tito IMO, I for one will not be jumping on the bandwagon of reverence that all too many lefties are now doing (and I personally know many such people who revere him, who I agree to disagree with). Castro's Cuba was, and is, a highly authoritarian country, where several rights and freedoms one takes for granted in the Western world do not exist. Even though the US and Western world remain on friendly terms with much worse regimes, but that shouldn't mean the negative aspects of the Cuban regime should be swept under the carpet - although I totally agree the embargo should be lifted.
gosub
~#
Having been round the slums of Manilla and Havana, think the Cubans got the better deal. Far from perfect though, but the homophobic criticism -this is a Caribbean country we are talking about
Take the Hershey train and compare with trip to Vinales to see why command economy doesn't work.
Take the Hershey train and compare with trip to Vinales to see why command economy doesn't work.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
huh, Swappies were never Castro fans ? (Prob best to have a scooby doo what you're on about if yr chucking the likes of ' subspecies of cretin' about ? )
likesfish
You can't park here sir
He did. Shoot down two unarmed cessna's who had repeatidly dropped leaflets on havanna and the cubans had complained and the yanks were in the process of taking the pilots licences away and had told the fuckwits to stop but they continued.
1996 shootdown of Brothers to the Rescue aircraft - Wikipedia.
Shooting unarmed pests is completely ott but given the history between the US and cuba continuing after the Feds have warned you is going to end badly is stupid.
The US went through the motions of being appalled and horrified but even they took the view "I'm a gonna poke the bear over there with a stick repeatidly whats the worse that could happen".
1996 shootdown of Brothers to the Rescue aircraft - Wikipedia.
Shooting unarmed pests is completely ott but given the history between the US and cuba continuing after the Feds have warned you is going to end badly is stupid.
The US went through the motions of being appalled and horrified but even they took the view "I'm a gonna poke the bear over there with a stick repeatidly whats the worse that could happen".
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
gosub
~#
Cuba had five spys in Florida, who had informed Havana when the aircraft had taken off.
Same spies also found out about a terrorist plot involving hijacking a commercial passenger flight, Cuba infomed Washington. Plot stopped. but them arrested and given life sentences, served about ten years before released as part of thawing of US/ Cuban relations. (Cuban 5)
Raheem
Well-Known Member
They're going to be having such a tough time keeping Donald off his Twitter account over this.
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