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Carlton Tavern in Carlton Way, Kilburn is demolished with no warning and without permission

editor

hiraethified


I hope these fuckers are made to rebuild it, brick by brick.

Carlton Tavern was sold last year to CLTX before they put in a planning application to Westminster Council for the building to be demolished and replaced with a pub at ground level and 10 residential units over four floors.

The plans were rejected on the basis that the bulk, height and detailed design of the new development “would be detrimental to the view from the adjacent Maida Vale Conservation Area and view from the nearby recreation ground where it was a gateway to the park.

Gary White, from Elgin Avenue, Maida Vale, said: “Maybe they think by demolishing it they can get their planning permission through quicker.”

Maida Vale councillor Jan Prendergast added: “They do not have permission to do this. I am absolutely furious.

“The council will take very strong measures against them. It’s not safe and I’m appalled for the residents who live here.”

A council spokeswoman confirmed to the Times the demolition had taken place without permission and enforcement officers had attended the scene once they were alerted.

She added: “The council will be seeking legal advice concerning whether any future action is legally possible.

“Pubs play an important role in our local community.”

http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/heritage/shock_as_historic_pub_in_kilburn_is_demolished_with_no_warning_and_without_permission_1_4027231
 

salem

Well-Known Member
That is a lovely building. What utter cunts.

"The council will be seeking legal advice concerning whether any future action is legally possible."

Let's hope so
 

Chick Webb

Countryfile and a can
I don't know that pub even though I live in NW2 and hang around Kilburn a lot. What was it near? What disgraceful behaviour anyway.
 

salem

Well-Known Member
Kilburn Times said:
Patsy Lord, the pub’s landlady, rushed to the scene from her home in Maida Vale after she was alerted to the demolition and she needed to move her son’s car.

After opening for business on Monday and hosting an Easter quiz, she was told the pub would be closed for an ‘inventory.
They didn't even tell the land lady? Seems like they demolished it with the place still set up.

I suspect that they'll have got good advice before doing this and that they'll probably get away with it and even if there is a fine or something it'll be a commercial decision that it's cheaper to pay then to have to fight some prolonged save the pub campaign and then compromise on their plans.

The developers will no doubt leave the site to fester until the community agrees with their plans as they'll be better then an ugly pile of rubble.

Absolute shower of cunts.
 
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Monkeygrinder's Organ

Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Wankers. I think something similar happened to the pub on the roundabout at the bottom of Westwood Hill in Sydenham. The building is still a fenced off wreck after several years.
 

oryx

Sitting on the bock of the day
Wankers. I think something similar happened to the pub on the roundabout at the bottom of Westwood Hill in Sydenham. The building is still a fenced off wreck after several years.
The Greyhound?

I think the developers were forced to put it back up again but sounds like it's taking a while! There's a lot on the Sydenham Town forum about it......
 

salem

Well-Known Member
Thing is this place was about to be listed. Until then no real problem in demolishing it. Demolishing it before the paperwork was signed up was a prudent move.

Cuntish but prudent.
 

Manter

Lunch Mob
There was some case in the 80s about developers 'accidentally' knocking down a building that was inconvenient and being forced to put it back up again, brick by brick. Was in the city somewhere but my google-foo has deserted me
 

editor

hiraethified
Thing is this place was about to be listed. Until then no real problem in demolishing it. Demolishing it before the paperwork was signed up was a prudent move.

Cuntish but prudent.
I hope it bites them on the arse. Hard. If the council has any balls they should force them to rebuild the pub and then fine them the biggest fine possible. And then tell them to fuck off out of the borough.

Has anyone got any contacts for the company behind this? Be good to see some faces we could pass personal messages on to. And wouldn't it be terrible if someone accidentally demolished one of their buildings?
 

Spymaster

Cockney Wanker
I don't know that pub even though I live in NW2 and hang around Kilburn a lot. What was it near?
It's not really Kilburn proper but right on the Maida Vale border. If you walked south down Kilburn High Road then Edgware Road, about 100 yards down on the right is Carlton Vale. The pub was about 200 yards down there on the left, just past the main entrance to Maida Vale rec.
 
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spliff

New Member
Has anyone got any contacts for the company behind this? Be good to see some faces we could pass personal messages on to. And wouldn't it be terrible if someone accidentally demolished one of their buildings?
Not really much info.
I assume the development company CLTX Ltd. is a ringfenced one off company for their Carlton Tavern project. The acronym gives it away.
However Kieran Rafferty of KR Planning is probably the person who advised them to go down this route after planning was rejected and almost listed status..
It's also reaching a wider press.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11525262/Bulldozers-level-historic-pub-the-day-before-it-is-due-to-be-listed.html
 
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StoneRoad

heckling from the back!
'ken 'ell - That is disgusting behaviour.
Hope the council have the balls to make CTLX rebuild it, then take it off them with a CPO and turn it into a CIC ................
The Landlady must be devastated.
 

Wolfie Smith

Sociable Worker
C.L.T.X. limited - incorporated 25 March 2011. Companies House has a proposal to strike off, perhaps due the non delivery of their 31 March 2014 accounts which were due 31 December 2014. Registered office 21 Bedford Square, London WC1B 3HH. One director - a Mr Ori Calif of 8 Shaul Hamelech Blvd, Tel Aviv, Israel 64733. C.L.T.X. has a subsidiary Ya Old White Bear Limited - again registered at 21 Bedford Square (this is probably their accountant's office). Ya Old White Bear was founded on 11 June 2013, no accounts or company return ever made so there is again a Companies House proposal to strike off. Our old friend Ori Calif is the sole director, but this time his address is given as 28 Kensington Park Gardens, Notting Hill W11 2QS and his occupation given as lawyer. There is a law firm called Ori Calif & Co registered at 8 Shaul Hamelech Blvd which claims a special focus on international taxation and real estate. Don't know if it is connected but there is a pub called The Old White Bear in Hampstead which was supposedly saved from being developed into a 6 bedroom house last year, but apparently has yet to re-open as a pub.

Are there any sanctions for the demolition of non listed building like the Carlton Tavern? These days even successful pubs are often worth more as development sites than they are as ongoing drinking concerns. As an example, The Victoria Pub in Mornington Terrace, Camden was sold a couple of years ago for 2 million and a planning application has gone in for 7 flats there. What is a one bedroom flat going to go for in Camden? North of £500,000 I guess, which means that the value of the flats there would be around 4 million - twice the purchase price. I know the previous owners of this pub claimed that they were losing £50,000 per year but seeing how busy it used to get on Friday nights, and speaking as a pub landlord myself, I don't believe that for a minute.
 

Spymaster

Cockney Wanker
Sounds great in theory but I predict it lying derelict for years whilst the responsible companies "go bankrupt", overseas directors are chased and wrangled with, courts get involved, lawyers and investigators make money ..... etc, etc.

They'd have been better off confiscating the plot, imo.
 

marty21

One on one? You're crazy.
There was some case in the 80s about developers 'accidentally' knocking down a building that was inconvenient and being forced to put it back up again, brick by brick. Was in the city somewhere but my google-foo has deserted me
I remember in 2002 seeing a Church Wall on Ledbury Road in Notting Hill/Bayswater collapsing, the developers were converting the church into flats, the church was next to some buildings that the HA I worked for managed - we got a call saying masonry had fallen into our building, so I went down there to see the tenants - nothing much we could do apart from get them out of there - we waited (outside a nearby pub:thumbs:) for the wall to collapse , was quite dramatic when it did finally crumble, the developers had to rebuild it :thumbs: We suspected at the time that it was easier for them to rebuild it , than it was for them to build within it:hmm:
 

Greebo

'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back?
R.I.P.
The owner(s) can appeal, as is their right, but an appeal is likely to be unsuccessful.
 

StoneRoad

heckling from the back!
*watches with interest*

hope the developer does as required, then the council can cpo and hand over to local community interests ...... with grant aid ! (followed by developer going bust as the new business makes a mint).
 

David Clapson

Infamous Knob
As the developer, CLTX Ltd, is Israel-based, can he just wind up his UK subsidiary and avoid his responsibilities?

I note from the Standard that CLTX has a UK planning consultant - this bloke Kieran Rafferty https://twitter.com/krplanning
All he tweets about is football. Perhaps urbz would like to ask for his views on pub demolition?
 

StoneRoad

heckling from the back!
And in the meantime the landlady and her staff are "unemployed" - and if there was a flat above the pub, possibly homeless as well.

What I really can't understand is the mentality of the digger operators - it was quite obvious that the pub was "occupied" - stuff on the walls etc. I hope they can sleep at nights.
 
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