Canada vs Denmark - Who owns Hans Island?

[guinnessdrinker]

And why should an inuit living in, say labrador have more more say than any other person living 100's of miles away?It properbly should be any ones. No dought its arguement over fishing rights ,waterways etc.
I expect your into a lot of nationistic romanticised bollocks. And you proberbly believe in all that noble savage shit. And that all english people should feel guilty for being born english.
Thats a really long way of saying. fuck off chilango.

you're talking bollocks. I live hundreds of miles away from there. I may have various arguments for or against, but I am not the one who lives there, so why should I say have any decisive meaning concerning the people who actually live there ( unless a particular issue affected people hundreds of miles away). and who's been talking noble savages . are they, in your view, common or garden savages?

 

[chilango]

Now who´s derailing, eh? springpeebs?

 

[chilango]

Do any inuit live there? And why should an inuit living in, say labrador have more more say than any other person living 100's of miles away?It properbly should be any ones. No dought its arguement over fishing rights ,waterways etc.
I expect your into a lot of nationistic romanticised bollocks. And you proberbly believe in all that noble savage shit. And that all english people should feel guilty for being born english.
Thats a really long way of saying. fuck off chilango.

A) Nobody lives there. However, looking at the map of arctic peoples on the wall behind me, I can see Inuit communities fairly close by.

B) It is these communities that will be most affected by any fishing rights, mineral extractions etc.

C)"nationistic romanticised bollocks"? explain what you mean and I´ll tell you whetner I believe in them or not.

D) "noble savage shit" I guess you´re referring to the ideas propounded by the romantic philosphers such as Rousseau? If so, no. My ideas are based more on 1st hand experience and more contemporary anthropology.

E) Guilty for being born english? why?

F) Why so abusive?

 

[spring-peeper]

I went to see if there was any coverage of this issue in the local newspaper.

They had an
article on it with a possible solution.

To resolve the dispute over who has claim to the island, Dewing suggests Canada and Denmark share Hans Island, which would then be half Nunavut, half Greenland - and a tourist attraction in its own right.

"They should put the border right in the middle. That would be the only place in North America where you could touch Canada and Europe," suggested Dewing.

.

A quick tour of their forum shows no reference to the situation - only a concern about social problems.

As I eluded to previously - they do not care.

 

[chilango]

I went to see if there was any coverage of this issue in the local newspaper.

They had an
article on it with a possible solution.

.

A quick tour of their forum shows no reference to the situation - only a concern about social problems.

As I eluded to previously - they do not care.

If (and its a big if) there are no oil/mineral/fishing interests at stake here the why should anyone (including the Inuit) care? Sure a bunch of Canucks can get all jingoistic for a while (and maybe some Danes will too) but maybe the island should then be owned by noone officially? a bit like Antarctica? (though there there are a lot of economic interests at stake hence the need for a treaty).

If there are economic interests in Hans Island (which your link suggests not) then I return to my contention that the indigenous people of the area should decide (they have an international arctic peoples organisation that could deal with the island in this case)

 

[editor]

On a vaguely related note, what's the name of that tiny rocky outcrop in the Atlantic ocean between the UK and the US? Hasn't ownership of that been disupted too?

 

[chilango]

On a vaguely related note, what's the name of that tiny rocky outcrop in the Atlantic ocean between the UK and the US? Hasn't ownership of that been disupted too?

Rockall?

Didn´t Greenpeace land on it a while back?

 

[editor]

Rockall?

That's the fella!

The United Kingdom, Ireland, Iceland, and strangely enough, Denmark, have been bickering for years regarding territorial rights to the place

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A755787

 

[chilango]

Yup.

Check it out:

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk.html

Kewl.

 

[spring-peeper]

If (and its a big if) there are no oil/mineral/fishing interests at stake here the why should anyone (including the Inuit) care? Sure a bunch of Canucks can get all jingoistic for a while (and maybe some Danes will too) but maybe the island should then be owned by noone officially? a bit like Antarctica? (though there there are a lot of economic interests at stake hence the need for a treaty).

If there are economic interests in Hans Island (which your link suggests not) then I return to my contention that the indigenous people of the area should decide (they have an international arctic peoples organisation that could deal with the island in this case)

It's not in their mandate.

At the first conference in 1991, "The Arctic Environmental Protection Strategy" was adopted setting out the following principles:

* To protect Arctic ecosystems and the people who live there;
* To provide suitable conditions for the protection and where necessary the improvement and restoration of the quality of the environment, and for the sustainable use of natural resources, including the use of resources by local and indigenous Arctic populations;
* To recognize and as far as possible make provision for the traditional and cultural needs, values, and way of life of the indigenous peoples in connection with environmental protection in the Arctic;
* To assess the status of the Arctic environment regularly;
* To identify, reduce and in long term eliminate pollution.

And, unfortunately, it is all about the economics.

 

[editor]

Yup.
Check it out:

Look at this bonkers photo from the time when Britain was asserting ownership by proving that it was habitable:

 

[chilango]

It's not in their mandate.


And, unfortunately, it is all about the economics.

True enough perhaps.

But I´m talking what should (imo) happen, not what will happen...call me a dreamer if you like!

 

[chilango]

Look at this bonkers photo from the time when Britain was asserting ownership by proving that it was habitable:

Brilliant!

I was always fascinated by this place as a kid.

 

[spring-peeper]

True enough perhaps.

But I´m talking what should (imo) happen, not what will happen...call me a dreamer if you like!

Ah, yes - me too. Sad, isn't it.

*trudges back off to writing code humming "Imagine" by John Lennon*

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Actually, I did look at your profile prior to posting. The majority of non-uk posters list their location. You chose not to. Hence the assumption that you were from the uk. So, where are you from? How is your country helping it's people in self-determination.

The Nunavut Act that created the territory in 1999 gives them to power to make their own laws with respect to elections;, civil and criminal courts; the establishment, maintenance and management of prisons, jails or lock-ups; municipal and local institutions in Nunavut; hospitals and charities; direct taxation; property and civil rights;, education; the preservation; use and promotion of the Inuktitut language; marriage; agriculture in Nunavut. Basically the same rights as the other provinces and territories.

The Federal government transfer payments of 844 million to assist finacially.

Imo, they are well on their way to self-determination.

International land claims are a Federal responsibility.

IMO, they're on their way to province-hood.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

you're talking bollocks. I live hundreds of miles away from there. I may have various arguments for or against, but I am not the one who lives there, so why should I say have any decisive meaning concerning the people who actually live there ( unless a particular issue affected people hundreds of miles away). and who's been talking noble savages . are they, in your view, common or garden savages?

Nobody lives there.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's the fella!



http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A755787

Those Danes: just sticking their noses in all over the place!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Canada wants to appear strong on this thing, because with global warming, the polar routes are going to become viable, and Canada's expecting some major disputes with the US and others over ownership of the Northwest Passage.

 

[spring-peeper]

IMO, they're on their way to province-hood.

Did you see the "Rick Mercier Monday Report" on the area? Very interesting way of setting up their government.

 

[spring-peeper]

Canada wants to appear strong on this thing, because with global warming, the polar routes are going to become viable, and Canada's expecting some major disputes with the US and others over ownership of the Northwest Passage.

That was my take on the situation, but didn't want to mention it. I was nervous about being accused of bashing our southern neighbours.

It seems to me that the only reason we patrol up there is to keep an eye on the Americans. For some reason, I trust the Danes more than I do the Americans.

No respect to the fragility of the Artic, them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That was my take on the situation, but didn't want to mention it. I was nervous about being accused of bashing our southern neighbours.

It seems to me that the only reason we patrol up there is to keep an eye on the Americans. For some reason, I trust the Danes more than I do the Americans.

No respect to the fragility of the Artic, them.

I at least understand the americans.

All I know about the danes is Legoland and cheese danish.

 

[spring-peeper]

I at least understand the americans.

All I know about the danes is Legoland and cheese danish.

That's what I mean - you never really hear bad things about them.

I do know that their navy is better than ours and they patrol their waters looking out for illegal fishing.

My daughter's first attempt at globe-trotting was to Denmark. She loved it!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's what I mean - you never really hear bad things about them.

I do know that their navy is better than ours and they patrol their waters looking out for illegal fishing.

My daughter's first attempt at globe-trotting was to Denmark. She loved it!

Their navy has better icebreaking capability than ours: in fact, I don't think our navy has a ship with icebreaking ability, although the coast guard has some.

However, our air force was able to deposit the defence minister on Hans Island a few weeks ago: that should count for something...

 

[spring-peeper]

Their navy has better icebreaking capability than ours: in fact, I don't think our navy has a ship with icebreaking ability, although the coast guard has some.

However, our air force was able to deposit the defence minister on Hans Island a few weeks ago: that should count for something...

But they took him away again

I think one of links on the thread shows him planting a flag after building an inukshuk (sp - very late).

 

[JoMo1953]

Canada wants to appear strong on this thing, because with global warming, the polar routes are going to become viable, and Canada's expecting some major disputes with the US and others over ownership of the Northwest Passage.

Do you really think this is going to be a big issue coming up?? Somehow I just can't imagine the US getting pissey with the Canadians over the Northwest Passage or visa-versa.....

Christ now I have to look at a map....who does claim ownership???

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Do you really think this is going to be a big issue coming up?? Somehow I just can't imagine the US getting pissey with the Canadians over the Northwest Passage or visa-versa.....

Christ now I have to look at a map....who does claim ownership???

http://www.isuma.net/v02n04/huebert/huebert_e.shtml

http://www.parl.gc.ca/committees352/fore/reports/07_1997-04/chap9e.html


For years, Canada has taken its control of the vast northern region mostly for granted. But with the melting of polar ice providing access for shipping, the government is anxious about possible territorial rivalries with Norway, Russia and the United States as well as Denmark.

The melting ice, attributed to global warming, could even open the legendary Northwest Passage, linking the Atlantic and the Pacific, to shipping. Canada and Russia are at odds over areas of the continental shelf in the region, with its potentially important mineral and oil deposits.

Meanwhile, the United States wants the Passage to be under international, not Canadian, control. There are also fears of clashes with the US over riches beneath the Beaufort Sea which extends northwards from the coasts of both Canada and Alaska.

Canada admits that the sudden burst of naval activity is no coincidence. 'This is a demonstration of Canada's will to exercise sovereignty over our own back yard,' Commodore Bob Blakely, of the Royal Canadian Navy, told reporters in Churchill at the weekend.

'The sea is a highway that's open to everyone. We will allow everybody passage as long as they ask for our consent and comply with our rules: Use our resources wisely and don't pollute the fragile northern ecosystem. It's like having a path behind your house. Nobody minds the neighbours walking along. Just don't dump your garbage there and don't take my vegetables out of the garden,' he said.

http://www.rednova.com/news/display?id=218252&source=r_science

 

[JoMo1953]

Interesting legal arguements on both sides....IMO.

Realistically, would there really be "affordable" shipping in the next say 30 years??

 

[jonH]

Hans of course

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Nobody lives there.

I was not talking about Hans Island, you fool, but the general area. reread the thread, young man.