Canada makes terror arrests

[Bob_the_lost]

I have no intention of discussing Canadian domestic policy with you. I've often be told that I have no right to discuss England/France/etc because I don't live there and therefore I can't possibly understand. I think the same holds true here.

What a crap answer.

"Why did you shoot that man in the terror raid officer?"
"Why do you care, you don't live there!"

If you're a frutiloop then don't keep it to yourself, proclaim it loudly from the rooftops. You were asked for your view, your opinion. Don't you have one?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Don't you think it would have made a bigger statement if they'd dragged it south of the border???

With respect, the world doesn't totally revolve around the US. Spain and the UK have been targetted, due to their involvement in Iraq.

The ringleader of this canadian group has said at various times how pissed off he is that Canada has troops in Afghanistan. No, they aren't afghani themselves, but it's a 'islamic solidarity' thing.

These were canadian islamic terrorists out to make a statement about Canadian involvement in the war on terror.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Maybe, just a suggestion why they might not like Canucks though...

Maybe they thought the Mounties would be easier to get round than the FBI/CIA?

I guess they were wrong then.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

At the present time, there is no proof that is plot is from any "terrorist" group. It would appear that any anti-social behaviour will cause everyone to think terrorism. Makes the headlines more fun and more people will read the stories.

Until I see proof to the contrary, I will maintain my position that these people are idiots engaged in anti-social behaviour.

They were would-be terrorists who tried to buy three tons of the same fertilizer used to blow up the Murragh building in OK City, and who were videotaping the Toronto subway and CN Tower.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

With respect, the world doesn't totally revolve around the US. Spain and the UK have been targetted, due to their involvement in Iraq.

The ringleader of this canadian group has said at various times how pissed off he is that Canada has troops in Afghanistan. No, they aren't afghani themselves, but it's a 'islamic solidarity' thing.

These were canadian islamic terrorists out to make a statement about Canadian involvement in the war on terror.

Geez, you Canadians are a sensitive lot.

No, I don't think the world revolves around the US. Its just that your rep is such that you don't seem to be the usual target. It is counter-intuitive to see you as the Great Satan.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Geez, you Canadians are a sensitive lot.

No, I don't think the world revolves around the US. Its just that your rep is such that you don't seem to be the usual target. It is counter-intuitive to see you as the Great Satan.

Our 'rep' isn't the issue. These people lived in Canada, and wanted to attack a canadian target.

The image of Canada in US eyes is irrelevant to the people involved, both the would be perpetrators, and the would be victims.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

How would blowing up a US target help these guys achieve their aim: namely, to hurt canada for its involvement in Afghanistan?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yuwipi, your op comment has left me a little steamed.

Here we are - these guys could have killed hundreds of canadians, and an american says: 'gee, why didn't they do something meaningful, and try to kill americans instead?'

It's like mears says: 'all america, all the time'.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yuwipi, your op comment has left me a little steamed.

Here we are - these guys could have killed hundreds of canadians, and an american says: 'gee, why didn't they do something meaningful, and try to kill americans instead?'

It's like mears says: 'all america, all the time'.

I'm sorry Johnny. That isn't what I meant to do.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm sorry Johnny. That isn't what I meant to do.

It's ok.

It's just that after Toronto, Vancouver would be the next likely target, and if the US bombs Iran, we'd become number one by a long shot.

 

[spring-peeper]

They were would-be terrorists who tried to buy three tons of the same fertilizer used to blow up the Murragh building in OK City, and who were videotaping the Toronto subway and CN Tower.

They are also the same terrorists that left a trail of email and chatroom logs for the police to follow.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were the bunch that got chased off properties around the peace tower a while back, either.

 

[TeeJay]

I never said you shouldn't comment about the UK, so my having canadian relatives isn't really that important at all - I mentioned it as an 'interest' I have in what is going on there, if you feel that this is relevant - I don't particularly. I haven't discussed the issues you mention enough with them to say what they think and I don't see how *their* views on these things are that relevant to the issue we are discussing on this thread anyway.

I'm very interested in the opinions of other Canadians and wait for your interpretations of current affairs over here.

u75 is more or less a UK based board and you are choosing to post on this thread about the latest events in Canada. I don't see why you have any right to refuse to discuss things with me. It is also a bit pathetic that you are suddenly getting all uppity when I disagree with you about something.

I am not claiming I know more about Canada than you - I have simply asked some questions and read a few Canadian newspaper articles and stated a view that based on what I have read it sounds very much like that at least some of these people are Islamist terrorists. The whole situation sounds similar to what has previously happened elsewhere, whereas 'they are just antisocial' or 'it was a black ops tin-foil hat' theories don't. I don;t see me living in canada or not has much bearing on my making this comment. Please feel free to fill me in on what I am missing here.

 

[spring-peeper]

Do you really think that these people were not in fact motivated by Islamist beliefs?

I have no idea - they have not made a statement yet. I do not have the ability to know what others are thinking.

That they were merely motivated by some general anti-social feelings?

I have no idea - they have not made a statement yet.

That they were not intending to cause fear and intimidation with the aim of influencing Canadian politics or policy?

I have no idea how my country would react to this.

Notwithstanding the involved debates about how to define terrorism it seems you are completely mangling the English language.

I have been very ill.

I have no idea - they have not made a statement yet.It sounds a bit like you so much don't want Canada to get drawn into the whole "war on terror" and 'hysterical knee-jerk reaction' thing that you'd prefer to think that this is all a put-up job or about something else entirely and that terrorism hasn't come to Canada, rather than accept the most likely explanation.

We have always been at war with "terrorism".

I doubt, however, that Islamist terrorists/extremists see much difference between Canada and the US, UK or any other country or population they have previously attacked.

(I fixed the spelling mistake, ok )

Really, and how do you know this?

 

[spring-peeper]

It took me a while to find again, but this story is interesting:

Holes begin to appear in Canadian terrorism case

WASHINGTON: Holes are beginning to appear in the official version of the “grand” terrorist conspiracy unearthed in the greater Toronto area, with one Canadian agronomist saying that the three tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertiliser that the alleged terrorists had ordered to blow up the Canadian Parliament and other buildings cannot be found even in the major agricultural province of Saskatchewan.

All but two of the 17 arrested men are reported to be Pakistanis.

One report on Monday said that the ammonium nitrate had only been ordered but never delivered, as the security agencies had substituted it with some harmless material. The fact that the swoop spread over two years was a sting operation is being underplayed or not even mentioned by the Canadian and American press and electronic media. There is no evidence that the 17 people arrested, five of them minors, had any link with Al Qaeda. Pen portraits appearing in the Canadian press show some of the young men to have become overly religious in the last couple of years. It is also now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and probably some other US agencies were also involved in the sting operation.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C06%5C06%5Cstory_6-6-2006_pg7_7

I don't think that they believe the official story, do you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060606.TERRORYOUTH06/TPStory/

 

[TeeJay]

Really, and how do you know this?

I said I *doubt* it...

...because if what I seen written or said by various Islamist extremists: while the US and Israel are typically identified as the key enemies, their 'allies' seem to include a vast number of governments and their citizens and have also been targets of various attacks.

However much Canadians might see their foreign policy as being very different to America I think that any such difference is lost on some Islamist extremists and terrorists.

Of course I await with interest to see the evidence presented in court.

 

[TeeJay]

I don't think that they believe the official story, do you?

None of the things mentioned seems to conflict with the reports I have read so far.

"There is no evidence that the 17 people arrested, five of them minors, had any link with Al Qaeda. Pen portraits appearing in the Canadian press show some of the young men to have become overly religious in the last couple of years."

This isn't that different from the 7/7 London bombers - they are said to not really have any links to Al Qaeda, and although this has been disputed recently in the case of one of them, it doesn't really make that much difference if they did or not: whether they had links and traning or whether they taught and organised themselves doesn't really change them being Islamist terrorists.

The fact that something may have been a sting could change things slightly but still not much: if this group had made plans which were then monitored for some time before they were all arrested (alng with enough evidence to get convictions) doesn't change their guilt or that fact that they were planning and trying to carry out an attack. Monitoring criminals until all the network is known and enough hard evidence is available is not uncommon for serious crimes.

Of course newspapers and politicians will give things their own spin, but you haven't said anything that suggests that this whole thing was set up by secret government agencies as some kind of "provocation" for political purposes...

...this is exactly the kind of claim that the conspiracy theory lot keep producing after every single terrorism-related incident, with the sad omission of any actual hard evidence to back them up. I expect they will turn up on this thread soon giving it the whole lizard-freemason-illuminatii thing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If you read the Globe and Mail article I posted, it appears largely to be the work of one motivated zealot who had access to a number of impressionable young muslims at a toronto mosque.

 

[spring-peeper]

None of the things mentioned seems to conflict with the reports I have read so far.

"There is no evidence that the 17 people arrested, five of them minors, had any link with Al Qaeda. Pen portraits appearing in the Canadian press show some of the young men to have become overly religious in the last couple of years."

This isn't that different from the 7/7 London bombers - they are said to not really have any links to Al Qaeda, and although this has been disputed recently in the case of one of them, it doesn't really make that much difference if they did or not: whether they had links and traning or whether they taught and organised themselves doesn't really change them being Islamist terrorists.

The fact that something may have been a sting could change things slightly but still not much: if this group had made plans which were then monitored for some time before they were all arrested (alng with enough evidence to get convictions) doesn't change their guilt or that fact that they were planning and trying to carry out an attack. Monitoring criminals until all the network is known and enough hard evidence is available is not uncommon for serious crimes.

Of course newspapers and politicians will give things their own spin, but you haven't said anything that suggests that this whole thing was set up by secret government agencies as some kind of "provocation" for political purposes...

...this is exactly the kind of claim that the conspiracy theory lot keep producing after every single terrorism-related incident, with the sad omission of any actual hard evidence to back them up. I expect they will turn up on this thread soon giving it the whole lizard-freemason-illuminatii thing.

I believe in due process of the law. I also believe that this was a legitimate arrest. But, I am entitled to ask questions.

let's see - one guy is being charged with threatening to cut of the pm's head. Did he say that on a bb like this? Could his quotes be taken out of context? Out of context quotes are often used to discredit people.

here's another one - they were going to take the parliment house by force. Oh my god - have you ever been there!!!! I have and I'm sorry, but I really don't think that part is credible.


btw - you asked me what I thought they should be charged with. I thought about it and have decided that my answer is "treason". There's a child's song from my homeland that goes, "Remember, remember, the fifth of November....".

As for those two American's - I'd leave them to the Americans.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I believe in due process of the law. I also believe that this was a legitimate arrest. But, I am entitled to ask questions.

let's see - one guy is being charged with threatening to cut of the pm's head.

No he isn't. He said he'd like to cut off the PM's head, but he's not charged with that.

For an explanation of the charges, go to page A7 of today's Globe and Mail.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060606.TERRORMAIN06/TPStory

 

[spring-peeper]

No he isn't. He said he'd like to cut off the PM's head, but he's not charged with that.

For an explanation of the charges, go to page A7 of today's Globe and Mail.

That was published this morning.

I'm relating what I saw on the news this evening. His lawyer seemed to being giving the impression that these charges are real.

"There's an allegation, apparently, that my client personally indicated that he wanted to behead the prime minister," said Gary Batasar, a lawyer for Steven Vikash Chand. "My client has said nothing about that."

The charges also allege that Chand plotted to storm the Canadian parliament, take politicians hostage and demand the release of Muslim prisoners. A Muslim leader who knew the oldest suspect, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, said his sermons at a mosque were "filled with hate" against Canada.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=837322006

I think that the entire this is really fascinating to watch. I enjoy reading different media reactions to the same events. For once, it's about a country I know something about.

I'll leave this thread to y'all and keep my findings/theories to myself.

oh, btw - Yea Canada - we rock!!!

 

[lostexpectation]

It took me a while to find again, but this story is interesting:

WASHINGTON: Holes are beginning to appear in the official version of the “grand” terrorist conspiracy unearthed in the greater Toronto area, with one Canadian agronomist saying that the three tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertiliser that the alleged terrorists had ordered to blow up the Canadian Parliament and other buildings cannot be found even in the major agricultural province of Saskatchewan.


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C06%5C06%5Cstory_6-6-2006_pg7_7

I don't think that they believe the official story, do you?

No I don't thats what I said!

 

[Main Street]

3 TONS of Amfo Dang Dude! it only took one ton to bring down the building in OKC.
Canada just dodged a bullet,... Still think stopping the war ot Terror is a good Idea?
They where planning to hit the CN tower Or some other big landmark.
But dont worry those good hearted Islamic terrorists are not Really going to hurt anyone. it is ALL your fault if they do.....
Canada is SOOO mean to "those people" why with all the taking them in giveing them welfare, housing, and all that..........
Canada is the numba one destination for those that are seeking the easy life liveing off the government "Dole"...
all they gotta do is get them selves there the canadians will take care of them after that.
I guess THAT doesnt matter
Evidently, they dont care what You do For them
They will Kill you just the same.
Those poor misunderstood Islamic Terrorists,
They musta just been planning on haveing a little fun thats all............
I wonder how many they have not cought yet.....

I guess that's why the guest workers are coming to Canada to do jobs like picking fruit for a pittance, with no access to healthcare, decent housing or the "Dole."

 

[Main Street]

Blowing stuff up is considered "anti-social behaviour" in my books.

In Canada, we spend a lot of time, effort and money into "brainwashing" our citizens that violence is not the answer. Somehow these people managed to miss that part. Now the community leaders will be looking into how this managed to slip through and put steps into trying to prevent this from happening again. I'm betting that several community groups will be getting large amount of government funding....

This is my opinion, of course.

"In Canada, we spend a lot of time, effort and money into "brainwashing" our citizens that violence is not the answer"

What? Are you kidding?

Turn on the tv mate for a scrap Oilers style, or take a look at Canada's involvement in Afghanistan - oh we are all such beautiful people, don't make me laugh.

 

[Main Street]

Did you see the Canadian headlines last week?

Wednesday - CSIS can't protect us from homegrown terrorists
Thursday - Taleban specifically threatens Canada
Friday - We catch home grown terrorists.

Am I suspicious? Yes.

Yep, SP, be suspicious - Harper wants in on any Iran war.

 

[Main Street]

Suspicious of what?

What do you suspect? That there is some kind of tin-foil-hat conspiracy between the people who write headlines and the Mounties? That this has all been invented to drum up support for anti-terrorist measures or a new foreign policy.

No the build up TJ not the bust itself. A bit like tanks at Heathrow Airport in the run up to the Iraq war.

 

[Main Street]

Just keeps the yanks happy. They used to bitch about Canada's lax border and letting 9/11 terrorists in (which I think was crap.)

Keep on sending down the weed to shut them up.

Just as long as we get the Crack and it continues to fuck us up

 

[Main Street]

With respect, the world doesn't totally revolve around the US. Spain and the UK have been targetted, due to their involvement in Iraq.

The ringleader of this canadian group has said at various times how pissed off he is that Canada has troops in Afghanistan. No, they aren't afghani themselves, but it's a 'islamic solidarity' thing.

These were canadian islamic terrorists out to make a statement about Canadian involvement in the war on terror.

How does the arrest of some nutters practicing soldiers in the woods who apparently wanted Harper's head (literally) have any connection with an "islamic solidarity" thing. Islamist? Yes but solidarity with islam, er.........................

 

[Main Street]

Geez, you Canadians are a sensitive lot.

No, I don't think the world revolves around the US. Its just that your rep is such that you don't seem to be the usual target. It is counter-intuitive to see you as the Great Satan.

Come and spend some time in this lovely country and then think about Canada's reputation.