Can your employer make you take laptop home?

[Gromit]

Anywhere where your employer requires you to undertake work is subject to requirement of risk assessment. Even driving to and from other offices. Obviously the level of assessment depends upon how much time is spent in though environments.

So if the employer requires or agrees that you spend a lot of time working at home then they have just as much duty of care to you there than they do in the office. They arent absolved of all responsabilty.

Tgere should be something in the Management of Health and Safety Regs along these lines. It may use the language wherever the employer has an undertaking. Its been so long since I studied H+S though my exact knowledge of where in the regs it us is sketchy.

If in any doubt ring the HSE helpline. They are a bit shit but should hopefully know the answer to this.

 

[GoneCoastal]

You don't need to maintain a second office. There are disaster recovery companies that operate a single office in which they sell rights to the desks -- typically they sell about 12 rights for every desk. They rely on it being very, very, VERY unlikely that more than one of their customers will simultaneously go down (I think they underestimate the accumulations of risk, but that is another issue), so that the chances of two people needing the same desk are negligable.

Hence, if you really need immediate access to a second site in the event of disaster, you can operate one for a 1/12th cost of the cost of actually running a second office.

Yep.... however, it can still be quite expensive at a per desk per month charge, also depending on additional services like IP phones, LAN/WAN links etc that will need to be there (sometimes included... sometimes not), so for a small/medium employer it can still be expensive

And (as you say above) they hope/rely that there won't be a disaster affecting multiple clients because if it does, then it's all first come first served on that type of arrangement so to cover that, the customers would be looking at not using a local centre and having to travel elsewhere for the alternative services if they didn't get first call as it were

If they feel there is a significant likelihood of that happening - for example a whole business park's worth of clients going out - then they recommend keeping & paying for empty desks for you only "the dedicated service level" (which is what a number of the banks have done locally) & that's a significantly more expensive option !

 

[GoneCoastal]

Anywhere where your employer requires you to undertake work is subject to requirement of risk assessment. Even driving to and from other offices. Obviously the level of assessment depends upon how much time is spent in though environments.

So if the employer requires or agrees that you spend a lot of time working at home then they have just as much duty of care to you there than they do in the office. They arent absolved of all responsabilty.

Tgere should be something in the Management of Health and Safety Regs along these lines. It may use the language wherever the employer has an undertaking. Its been so long since I studied H+S though my exact knowledge of where in the regs it us is sketchy.

If in any doubt ring the HSE helpline. They are a bit shit but should hopefully know the answer to this.

Cheers Marius.... Interesting.. so I guess if anyone started asking questions, they could just say... you are required to come into work then ... hmm!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

if it is necessary for the job....yes.

not in this country....it wouldn't be.

if this is part of your orignal contract to provide emergancy cover then it would be expected that your employer make reasonable adjustment to their working practice to accomidate this.

other wise it's a fundamental change in working practice...

talk to your union...

 

[GoneCoastal]

not in this country....it wouldn't be.

if this is part of your orignal contract to provide emergancy cover then it would be expected that your employer make reasonable adjustment to their working practice to accomidate this.

other wise it's a fundamental change in working practice...

talk to your union...

Thing is though, the OP was only about being asked to take a laptop home so it could be taken to another location rather than working at home unless I missed summat. apols if I did.. .. if it's requiring someone to work at home then I agree that that's a fundamental change but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?

Although in ref to DC's post - I occasionally have to remind my US colleagues that we have different t&c of employment here so if they phone me off hours, then I can get paid for that time which usually gets a response of "Wow- really?"

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Thing is though, the OP was only about being asked to take a laptop home so it could be taken to another location rather than working at home unless I missed summat. apols if I did.. .. if it's requiring someone to work at home then I agree that that's a fundamental change but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?

Although in ref to DC's post - I occasionally have to remind my US colleagues that we have different t&c of employment here so if they phone me off hours, then I can get paid for that time which usually gets a response of "Wow- really?"

i would say that it's a fundamental change in working practice from wheny ou took on the job and were not previously have had to take a laptop home. cahnges to working practice can be as minor as stopping buying teabags for the office kitchen it doesn't have to be you will now give your first born to the boss for them to feed upon... it can be minor but established practice of course it's not something that is worth the hassle of tribunal however a quick nod to the union should cover it.

i mean are they going to give staff and indeminty for havign work equipment off site in their homes which means there will be no detriment to them if it's lost stolen or accidentally broken? Are they intending to provide some kind of insurance or increased salery to cover the potential of increased insurance premiums for having valueable office equipement at home?

how are they going to counter the increased risk of damage to the staffs property though malfunction or fire etc...

 

[teuchter]

but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?

I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.

 

[GoneCoastal]

I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.

I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes

 

[kabbes]

I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes

Firstly, that might not be the case in the OP's instance.

Secondly, having to lug a backpack around is still encumbering you, which you might not appreciate. It's up to each individual to decide how bothered they are by this -- not up to us to tell them how bothered they should be.

 

[The Groke]

but this is the point, they haven't once in 17 years been expected to work elsewhere yet their boss it telling them to take their laptop home with them every night.

it's unreasonable, totally unreasonable.

So the policy has changed.

What is the problem?

As far as I undertstand it, the boss is not expecting them to do extra hours, but to be prepared to work from a different site or from home should the situation demand it.

Sounds like a whinge about nothing to me!

As I said, if the weight is a problem, then there are ways around it.....

 

[The Groke]

They shouldn't make you work at home without undertaking a Risk Assessment / Workstation Assessment of your home to ensure that it is fit for sustained work computer use.

Christ you don't work in H&S do you......

 

[kabbes]

So the policy has changed.

What is the problem?

As far as I undertstand it, the boss is not expecting them to do extra hours, but to be prepared to work from a different site or from home should the situation demand it.

Sounds like a whinge about nothing to me!

As I said, if the weight is a problem, then there are ways around it.....

I regularly take a laptop home with me, and I think it is a PITA. I don't like wearing a backback on the tube and you do notice the weight in a satchel-like bag. I would resent being ORDERED to carry it every day. Particularly if it really was for no good reason, such as in this case.

What happens if it is my only available terminal and I forget it one day? Am I facing disciplinary action?

 

[GoneCoastal]

I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.

Sorry - I do see what you mean but I just think the whole thing is, well nothing really major & should easy be worked round... on the occasions someone want to got out after work, leave the laptop there

Firstly, that might not be the case in the OP's instance.

Secondly, having to lug a backpack around is still encumbering you, which you might not appreciate. It's up to each individual to decide how bothered they are by this -- not up to us to tell them how bothered they should be.

Yep..all true but how much of a fuss is it actually worth causing ? I'd say just take the things homw mostly & anyone wants to go out after work... on those occasions, just leave them at work...

 

[christonabike]

I'm pretty sure the OP has got the wrong end of the stick as no employer would expect people to take a laptop home every evening

Some folks go out every night and would not be expected to lump it around, and it'd only take a few misplaced ones to show the lunacy of the idea

Maybe store a laptop at home is what they mean?

 

[GoneCoastal]

I regularly take a laptop home with me, and I think it is a PITA. I don't like wearing a backback on the tube and you do notice the weight in a satchel-like bag. I would resent being ORDERED to carry it every day. Particularly if it really was for no good reason, such as in this case.

What happens if it is my only available terminal and I forget it one day? Am I facing disciplinary action?

Well I got drinks all over mine & it had to be replaced.. no issues at all!

Seriously though to the first part. Are you required by your job to use a laptop as opposed to a desktop or do you just request one ?

Reason I ask is that if it's not really needed to actually do your job, have a desktop instead Problem solved

(Unless of course you use the work laptop in the evenings to surf & do personal email etc )

 

[Gromit]

Christ you don't work in H&S do you......

Used to, about 4 years ago. Don't have the proffesional letters after my name any more as I stopped paying the membership fees.

I used to undertake DSE assessments for all our home users as well as those in the offices suffering WRULDs.
Was a great little skive out the office and even took me as far as Grimsby.

Gutted I never got to assess our users in Japan, New York and Hawaii. I had to deal with our Dutch offices remotely and pay a contractor

H&S has a bad rep caused by organisations using it as an excuse for things when H&S advisors would suggest much more common sense measures. I enjoyed H&S but its a thankless, under-resourced area of work where you are continually banging your head up against management brick walls until the envitable happens. Only when its too late are you taken seriously.

 

[GoneCoastal]

I'm pretty sure the OP has got the wrong end of the stick as no employer would expect people to take a laptop home every evening

Some folks go out every night and would not be expected to lump it around, and it'd only take a few misplaced ones to show the lunacy of the idea

Maybe store a laptop at home is what they mean?

500+ people on the site where I work (1800+ in the UK) .... quite a lot do have laptops and they do get taken home every night... this is why I'm a bit surprised... it doesn't seem to cause anyone at my place any major inconveniences ... at least I haven't heard of any complaints yet.... most folks come to work by car so it goes in the boot (out of town business park) I appreciate people might find it different in London say, but even so I do work there sometimes & I have to commute to the office when I go in & a backpack has never bothered me yet...

I keep editing when I spot I've made a spelling mistake grr! sorry

 

[christonabike]

You're all geeks then

At our place, 500 people go out in Central London on the piss every night

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes

But is there any private information on there that could be accessed?

There's been enough security breaches already re personal data, and no doubt because people have gone for a drink after work and been made to carry their laptops with them

 

[christonabike]

Same here

There would be loads of sensitive data that others could use on it

 

[Gromit]

Yeah thats a big issue at the moment, as discussed at the recent eCrime Conference I attended earlier this month. Feel free to watch the videos if you missed it.

God I sound boring. First H&S and then ICT security Conferences.

 

[jonead]

i would say that it's a fundamental change in working practice from wheny ou took on the job and were not previously have had to take a laptop home. ...

one might point out that 17 years ago (as the OP cites), being required to a laptop home wouldn't have been an option ...

just out of interest, does _any_ change constitute a "change in working practice"?

- a devp team moving from rational to agile?
- changing the office email client from notes to outlook?
- moving to a different floor?

just curious really ...


eta :

my experience with taking laptops home is that employers have borne the responsibility for providing insurance, means of securing sensitive data (pgp whole disk encryption ftw), bags, and any other gubbins.

 

[GoneCoastal]

But is there any private information on there that could be accessed?

There's been enough security breaches already re personal data, and no doubt because people have gone for a drink after work and been made to carry their laptops with them

Nope because it's against security policy to have data on the laptops.. All data has to be on the network (disciplinary if not) ... laptops are not backed up.... it's also no data on desktops too... all on the network.... when working from home I am connected to the network

 

[GoneCoastal]

eta :

my experience with taking laptops home is that employers have borne the responsibility for providing insurance, means of securing sensitive data (pgp whole disk encryption ftw), bags, and any other gubbins.

Same !

 

[likesfish]

arrange to be "mugged" for laptop
then depending on how confidential the stuff on the laptop is watch as management sweat.
added bonuses send emails demanding ransom for the hardrive.
someobdy really isn't thinking things through

 

[kabbes]

I used to lug my laptop around out of choice, because I wanted to use it to work from home. It was still a pain though. (Now, we are all thin client, so I just access the server directly from my home PC -- no need for the laptop!)

I repeat -- for some people, it might be no big deal. But if somebody says that it is a big deal for them, you should respect that. If they think that it *is* worth fighting about, that is for them to decide.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

one might point out that 17 years ago (as the OP cites), being required to a laptop home wouldn't have been an option ...

just out of interest, does _any_ change constitute a "change in working practice"?

- a devp team moving from rational to agile?
- changing the office email client from notes to outlook?
- moving to a different floor?

just curious really ....

anything which alters the contract of employment or agreed terms and conditions or exisitng work place culture which the employee feels is a detriment to them or their existing conditions... (technically it might also be something which of benefit to them however I've never had anyone wanting to start greivence proceedures for getting better/benifical working conditions).

so changing software on a pc no stopping providing coffee for employees yes.

 

[GoneCoastal]

I used to lug my laptop around out of choice, because I wanted to use it to work from home. It was still a pain though. (Now, we are all thin client, so I just access the server directly from my home PC -- no need for the laptop!)

I repeat -- for some people, it might be no big deal. But if somebody says that it is a big deal for them, you should respect that. If they think that it *is* worth fighting about, that is for them to decide.

The first part - I suspect we'll be the same before long .... although I think we'll still have laptops for the mobility aspect...

The 2nd bit is - I do certainly appreciate it might be an issue for others & yup if people want to fight it - that's their choice... just that to me (as I said before... to me only) it's a non issue.... although... tbf... the days of me going out straight after work are fairly well gone .. well, except the odd leaving do maybe

 

[GoneCoastal]

anything which alters the contract of employment or agreed terms and conditions or exisitng work place culture which the employee feels is a detriment to them or their existing conditions... (technically it might also be something which of benefit to them however I've never had anyone wanting to start greivence proceedures for getting better/benifical working conditions).

so changing software on a pc no stopping providing coffee for employees yes.

Does something become an implied benefit under the heading of workplace culture I wonder ?

For example we have a canteen that (I think) is subsidised a bit though not by the employer .. but we also have vending machines that are free for coffee & tea. If they were removed, would that constitute a change ? It took ages to get them installed - always used to have to pay

There was talk at one time that free coffee/tea could be considered a benefit in kind - anyone know if that's still the case ?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Does something become an implied benefit under the heading of workplace culture I wonder ?

For example we have a canteen that (I think) is subsidised a bit though not by the employer .. but we also have vending machines that are free for coffee & tea. If they were removed, would that constitute a change ? It took ages to get them installed - always used to have to pay

There was talk at one time that free coffee/tea could be considered a benefit in kind - anyone know if that's still the case ?

yeah basically if it was a detriment to the work place then yes... you'd be suprised how many people are preparred to go absolutly postal over free tea or coffee at work being removed let alone wanting to take it all the way up to god if necessary...

if they removed the tea and coffee then there would be a detriment to the accepted working conditions.... (unless they of course replaced it with beer and wine or soft drinks etc...) it affects only in a minor way, but still, the conditions you have been employed unders...