Can you re-program yourself?
- Thread starter red rose
- Start date
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
To be honest, knowing about brain mechanisms probably isn't really necessary! And as neuropsychology isn't my strong point I'm slightly worried I've got something wrong. But the general idea is about right.
If you do get the book, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it.
One word of warning - one of the reviews said it opened up a can of worms that they didn't feel as though they could work through on their own. But aside from that and one other negative review, it seemed to get very positive reviews.
Disjecta Membra
cashing reality checks but cant even pay atention.
"can you re program yourself ?" most definitely if fact you have no choice were a wave not a particle dawkins said something that has stuck my mind offering hope of change along those lines something like think of a vivid childhood memory someting you can almost smell/feel now think that not a single atom in your body was there then,we're in a constant state of flux bad momeries if dwelled upon will be transfired/rememberd but we can through hard work maybe choose to lose em this gives me hope that i won't always feel lost worrying about everything
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, it's moods, thoughts and actions.
I sat in on a group session a psycologist was having on depression and he put these three up and argued that actions, for example taking more exercise could impact thoughts and thus impact moods (make you feel better).
Action on any of the three can affect the other two was his argument.
red rose
Fee-Ai-Esh-See-Oh
Ptsh, charity shops is where its at 
I actually contacted one of the two girls who were my best friends and also my tormentors in primary school. She went to a different secondary school and we lost touch. I was in a downward spiral last night and listed a bunch of the things that they used to do to me (pretend to have a fight and then have one of them drag me off to get me to say nasty things about the other one, and then after a few years telling me that thats what they'd been doing to name one) and asked her if she could explain why she did these things.
She just got back to me and has explained a whole lot, it turns out that she remembers barely anything from primary school because she had such a hard homelife at the time she's blocked a lot out and she says that she honestly doesn't remember any of the manipulation, only us falling out a lot and that she expects that some of the horrible things were a result of the falling out. I pointed out that neither of them ever had me over to their houses but clearly spent a lot of time out of school together not including me at each other's houses. She says that she was never allowed to have any friends over to her house as a child and the other girl in this threesome has never been to her house. She's apologised profusely if she's had any negative impact on my current situation and says if I want to keep talking about it she'll happily keep in contact to try and work some stuff out if it will help me.
I have of course written back explaining that in secondary school the other girl in this threesome really did mature into one of the best manipulative bitches known to man and that I was in a downward spiral when I wrote my first message and I didn't mean to sound so accusing or attach so much blame, I'm just trying to work out what happened. We've exchanged some other pleasantries and are now on good terms.
So it seems that my view of primary school wasn't quite right, and that this second girl really was a psychotic evil genius if she was not only fucking me around in primary school and lying a lot but making it seem like this girl I'm now back in contact with was the ringleader in this torture.
It has certainly made me examine a lot of things very closely, Evil Psychotic Bitch (as we will refer to her as) WAS the one who told me that the fights we had were just to get me to say horrible stuff, and she was the one talking about going over to houses all the time. My mother always said since I was about 6 that it was EPB behind all the mind games, but EPB always made it seem like it was this other girl being so nasty and she was just going along with it, so I never quite believed my mom and thought that maybe she didn't understand.
I think it was a real leap forward, she didn't deny that any of the horrible stuff happened and was willing to accept that she might have been a part of it but can't really remember much. From the bits she did remember and from what I remember its a lot more obvious now who the puppet-master was and that even if this girl did at times join in with the bulling she was probably being manipulated just as much as me and was also having a shit home-life to boot. She apologised but I now I don't want an apology from her, we were kids, I don't think she really had much imput into my current state of mind now that we've talked and I certainly don't have any feelings of blame anymore or questions about what on earth went on anymore.
And of course because I went to secondary school with EPB and by about 15 realised what a manipulative nut job she was (I could never compete, I always came out looking like the bad guy because I wouldn't play into her insane games) I've dealt with my feelings about that a few years ago and the memories of her really don't bother me now, it was just primary school that was still getting to me.
Well thats very oddly a whole section of my life semi-dealt with (it will obviously require a bit more thinking and analysing)
(And a whole thread devoted to my own personal mental health and life story ramblings, apologies for that, I dont know how else to explain but to just write out everything that happened
)
I actually contacted one of the two girls who were my best friends and also my tormentors in primary school. She went to a different secondary school and we lost touch. I was in a downward spiral last night and listed a bunch of the things that they used to do to me (pretend to have a fight and then have one of them drag me off to get me to say nasty things about the other one, and then after a few years telling me that thats what they'd been doing to name one) and asked her if she could explain why she did these things.
She just got back to me and has explained a whole lot, it turns out that she remembers barely anything from primary school because she had such a hard homelife at the time she's blocked a lot out and she says that she honestly doesn't remember any of the manipulation, only us falling out a lot and that she expects that some of the horrible things were a result of the falling out. I pointed out that neither of them ever had me over to their houses but clearly spent a lot of time out of school together not including me at each other's houses. She says that she was never allowed to have any friends over to her house as a child and the other girl in this threesome has never been to her house. She's apologised profusely if she's had any negative impact on my current situation and says if I want to keep talking about it she'll happily keep in contact to try and work some stuff out if it will help me.
I have of course written back explaining that in secondary school the other girl in this threesome really did mature into one of the best manipulative bitches known to man and that I was in a downward spiral when I wrote my first message and I didn't mean to sound so accusing or attach so much blame, I'm just trying to work out what happened. We've exchanged some other pleasantries and are now on good terms.
So it seems that my view of primary school wasn't quite right, and that this second girl really was a psychotic evil genius if she was not only fucking me around in primary school and lying a lot but making it seem like this girl I'm now back in contact with was the ringleader in this torture.
It has certainly made me examine a lot of things very closely, Evil Psychotic Bitch (as we will refer to her as) WAS the one who told me that the fights we had were just to get me to say horrible stuff, and she was the one talking about going over to houses all the time. My mother always said since I was about 6 that it was EPB behind all the mind games, but EPB always made it seem like it was this other girl being so nasty and she was just going along with it, so I never quite believed my mom and thought that maybe she didn't understand.
I think it was a real leap forward, she didn't deny that any of the horrible stuff happened and was willing to accept that she might have been a part of it but can't really remember much. From the bits she did remember and from what I remember its a lot more obvious now who the puppet-master was and that even if this girl did at times join in with the bulling she was probably being manipulated just as much as me and was also having a shit home-life to boot. She apologised but I now I don't want an apology from her, we were kids, I don't think she really had much imput into my current state of mind now that we've talked and I certainly don't have any feelings of blame anymore or questions about what on earth went on anymore.
And of course because I went to secondary school with EPB and by about 15 realised what a manipulative nut job she was (I could never compete, I always came out looking like the bad guy because I wouldn't play into her insane games) I've dealt with my feelings about that a few years ago and the memories of her really don't bother me now, it was just primary school that was still getting to me.
Well thats very oddly a whole section of my life semi-dealt with (it will obviously require a bit more thinking and analysing)
(And a whole thread devoted to my own personal mental health and life story ramblings, apologies for that, I dont know how else to explain but to just write out everything that happened
)
red rose
Fee-Ai-Esh-See-Oh
One other thing I wanted to mention is that I am now worried a lot less about this process changing who I am. I found a purse at a bus stop this evening, got out the drivers licence and immediately found the address of the person it belonged to and returned it. The mother of the girl who lost the purse insisted on giving me £20 for doing so (although I hate the idea of being rewarded just for doing the right thing)
But I was thinking about it on the bus and from the second I saw the purse the only things in my head were "Nothing is open around here including the police station, how am I going to get this to some place safe for it's owner? Is the girl who lost this alright?" At no point in the entire thing did I even think to check how much money was in it, even in a hypothetical would-never-do-it-but-would-wonder-how-much-cash-there-is kind of way (the mother told me it was over £100)
And i decided that even if I did change a bit during this whole fixing-my-head process that the things like that, would still be there because when I got home and told my mom she said "thats just you gem" and I like that in such a spontaious situation my ethics proved themselves to be totally in the right place, and I don't think that any of the other things I'm doing to change me will affect stuff like that
Edit: god that sounds so smug, I just meant that the fact that I automatically do the right thing has boosted my confidence a bit, because as the mother of the girl said "hardly anyone's that honest anymore"
But I was thinking about it on the bus and from the second I saw the purse the only things in my head were "Nothing is open around here including the police station, how am I going to get this to some place safe for it's owner? Is the girl who lost this alright?" At no point in the entire thing did I even think to check how much money was in it, even in a hypothetical would-never-do-it-but-would-wonder-how-much-cash-there-is kind of way (the mother told me it was over £100)
And i decided that even if I did change a bit during this whole fixing-my-head process that the things like that, would still be there because when I got home and told my mom she said "thats just you gem" and I like that in such a spontaious situation my ethics proved themselves to be totally in the right place, and I don't think that any of the other things I'm doing to change me will affect stuff like that
Edit: god that sounds so smug, I just meant that the fact that I automatically do the right thing has boosted my confidence a bit, because as the mother of the girl said "hardly anyone's that honest anymore"
Agent Sparrow
AGENT TRAITOR; fools 8 year olds
One other thing I wanted to mention is that I am now worried a lot less about this process changing who I am. I found a purse at a bus stop this evening, got out the drivers licence and immediately found the address of the person it belonged to and returned it. The mother of the girl who lost the purse insisted on giving me £20 for doing so (although I hate the idea of being rewarded just for doing the right thing)
But I was thinking about it on the bus and from the second I saw the purse the only things in my head were "Nothing is open around here including the police station, how am I going to get this to some place safe for it's owner? Is the girl who lost this alright?" At no point in the entire thing did I even think to check how much money was in it, even in a hypothetical would-never-do-it-but-would-wonder-how-much-cash-there-is kind of way (the mother told me it was over £100)
And i decided that even if I did change a bit during this whole fixing-my-head process that the things like that, would still be there because when I got home and told my mom she said "thats just you gem" and I like that in such a spontaious situation my ethics proved themselves to be totally in the right place, and I don't think that any of the other things I'm doing to change me will affect stuff like that
Edit: god that sounds so smug, I just meant that the fact that I automatically do the right thing has boosted my confidence a bit, because as the mother of the girl said "hardly anyone's that honest anymore"
Aw, that doesn't sound smug at all lovely, recognising your positive traits is a really important thing to do! Even if it does feel a bit odd when a) you have low self esteem in the first place, and b) you're British! (lets face it, it's not really something we tend to do is it?)
There's another book you might find interesting, perhaps when you're feeling a little stronger about everything. Margaret Atwood's Catseye is about school yard female psychological bullying and the effects that it has on the victim. You might well find it quite validating, but you might want to leave it a while till things are a bit less raw.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I am against too much bringing back of bad stuff from the past. I think it would be better if you have to drudge through your past to bring back good bits. Stuff you bring back becomes larger in your mind so bringing back bad bits just increases the size of the bad bits floating around in your brain.
I am pretty sure Anthony Robbins (of NLP fame) was very against this druging up of bad things, as practiced a lot by psychoanalists, indeed if we look back with the right filters on everyone can find bad things to mull over. The point from Robbins is that these are small in the distant past and are assuming a healthy perspective mentally, i.e. they are little things in our consciousness, rather than big things. If we want to have a happy present and future we would do well to minimise bad things and instead emphasise the good things which equally we all have.
I am pretty sure Anthony Robbins (of NLP fame) was very against this druging up of bad things, as practiced a lot by psychoanalists, indeed if we look back with the right filters on everyone can find bad things to mull over. The point from Robbins is that these are small in the distant past and are assuming a healthy perspective mentally, i.e. they are little things in our consciousness, rather than big things. If we want to have a happy present and future we would do well to minimise bad things and instead emphasise the good things which equally we all have.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Some links for you.
Anthony Robbins
http://www.tonyrobbins.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Robbins
Robbins, Anthony (1986). Unlimited Power: The New Science of Personal Achievement. New York: Simon & Schuster, 448 pages. ISBN 0-684-84577-6.
(I read this book years ago when I was having some issues and I liked it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
Anthony Robbins
http://www.tonyrobbins.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Robbins
Robbins, Anthony (1986). Unlimited Power: The New Science of Personal Achievement. New York: Simon & Schuster, 448 pages. ISBN 0-684-84577-6.
(I read this book years ago when I was having some issues and I liked it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
I guess in principle people can.
I don't seem to find it very easy myself.
eta: I guess it's easier if you change your environment. Quite difficult to change yourself when to some extent you're a creation of others' images of you.
I don't seem to find it very easy myself.
eta: I guess it's easier if you change your environment. Quite difficult to change yourself when to some extent you're a creation of others' images of you.
Sure thing. Just try some Neuro linguistic programming (NLP).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
NLP is all about modelling succesful behaviour which is usually positive stuff that should have been affirmed to you during childhood.
Conversely if you have had negative affirmations (stuff like you're bad, not good enough, a loser, a whore etc etc etc) then you are at risk that you will eventually become that person. It's a question of self-belief. You often dont do what you ought to in life because you don't beleive that it's possible. You don't that it's possible because you dont think that you're worth it. You dont think that you're worth it becasue you have a negative self-image. You have a negative self-image because you have had nothing but negative affirmations all your life. Each successive failure in life only re-enforces that fact.
Back to NLP and modelling...... you need to surround yourself with positive people, who will give you positive affirmations. Be the person you want to be, maintain a positive image of your higher-self and all your actions will become motivated towards becoming that person in your mind. Doesnt happen automatically but it's the beginning of a long healing process.
Self-image is intrinsically tied to self-esteem which in turn is tied to self-beleif and without self-belief in life you wont acheive anything simply becasue you have made it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason why you dont pick up a phone to a better paying job is becasue you rationalize to yourself why you won't get it. The reason why you cant walk up confidently to chat up the pretty girl you can see across the bar is because you talk yourself into all sort of reasons why you shouldnt go up and say hello to her. (stupid stuff like, im not good looking enough, im not funny enough, why would she talk to a loser like me etc etc etc)
Think of the person who you should be! You will eventually become that person.
Conversely if you have had negative affirmations (stuff like you're bad, not good enough, a loser, a whore etc etc etc) then you are at risk that you will eventually become that person. It's a question of self-belief. You often dont do what you ought to in life because you don't beleive that it's possible. You don't that it's possible because you dont think that you're worth it. You dont think that you're worth it becasue you have a negative self-image. You have a negative self-image because you have had nothing but negative affirmations all your life. Each successive failure in life only re-enforces that fact.
Back to NLP and modelling...... you need to surround yourself with positive people, who will give you positive affirmations. Be the person you want to be, maintain a positive image of your higher-self and all your actions will become motivated towards becoming that person in your mind. Doesnt happen automatically but it's the beginning of a long healing process.
Self-image is intrinsically tied to self-esteem which in turn is tied to self-beleif and without self-belief in life you wont acheive anything simply becasue you have made it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason why you dont pick up a phone to a better paying job is becasue you rationalize to yourself why you won't get it. The reason why you cant walk up confidently to chat up the pretty girl you can see across the bar is because you talk yourself into all sort of reasons why you shouldnt go up and say hello to her. (stupid stuff like, im not good looking enough, im not funny enough, why would she talk to a loser like me etc etc etc)
Think of the person who you should be! You will eventually become that person.
But at the point you are imaginign a better self (something i'm trying to do with the paul mckenna stuff) you are not in a healthy state of mind, so are you not in danger of polluting that image. And what if you can't imagine these things?
Sorry for the threadjack; it seemed relevant.
Sorry for the threadjack; it seemed relevant.
Agreed, in a really bad state it's very hard to think of anything positive. If you can't see your own higher self then try thinking of someone you really like and admire and be that person.
Well this is a problem I have with the belief that we create our own reality because once you start thinking somehting negative (which inevitably happens it seems) then you end up getting into a right state thinking 'no i mustn't be negative! Aahh!'
It's good that you're willing to give the counselling a go. I thought it strange how you said you want to analyse the way things have been and try and re-program yourself yet you didn't want counselling.
Like someone else said, the counsellor is really just there to jog your thoughts and make you think. I had it once and did find it quite hard talking about some things but I think it helped me approach certain things in my mind that needed looking at.
It's very hard to break down negative thought patterns that you've developed over the years but it can definitely be done. The 'can't' example is a good one - if you change that to 'can' your behaviours begin to change.
Your counsellor is likely to combine looking at the stuff in your past in an objective light and help you turn thinking patterns around. I agree that too much dredging over the past isn't healthy but you've got to confront it before you can move on.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I think what you have to do, imo, is own your own past, accept it, come to terms with it. Usually, a lot of the baggage we carry from early life, is as a result of the actions of others. We have to accept that we aren't guilty.
I'd say you have to own your past, because it won't be erased. But once it's recognized for what it is, it can take its place as merely one of the elements of what makes up you. And once it's just one of the elements, it no longer has to dominate the future.
I wish I had a more cogent answer, but I'm still working this stuff out.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Its All In Your Mind
Chaos Magick:Chaochamber
Psycho Dynamic Rituals
If that fails try some DIY lobotomies/ECT
http://www.newfalcon.com/cd-chaos_vol4.php
http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/topy.php
GREY BOOK
This shit is soooo nineteen eighties
THREE WORDS:
GET A LIFE
Chaos Magick:Chaochamber
Psycho Dynamic Rituals
If that fails try some DIY lobotomies/ECT
http://www.newfalcon.com/cd-chaos_vol4.php
http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/topy.php
GREY BOOK
This shit is soooo nineteen eighties
THREE WORDS:
GET A LIFE
red rose
Fee-Ai-Esh-See-Oh
After talking to my old school acquaintance this makes a lot of sense, I feel now like I can put that part of my life behind me and at least when I do feel bad now that isn't one of the things my mind dredges up.
red rose
Fee-Ai-Esh-See-Oh
This is a theory I have been putting to the test, along with the idea of trying to picture the non-depressed person you want to be and what they would do in a given situation and doing that instead of staying under the duvet all day wallowing (that's a hard one to force yourself to do)
But having just dealt with the manipulation and passive aggressiveness I suffered through out school I find I am now in that situation again. My flatmate and I had an argument over two weeks ago and since then it has been like primary school all over again, manipulation, lies, passive aggressive niggly things that no one else will notice and I have tried to diffuse the situation with no luck (she still ignores me or turns to ice and leaves the room if I join in a conversation in the kitchen)
I've been too stressed to get out of bed the last few days and barely sleeping to avoid it all but last night I was thinking about it all and how I can't deal with this kind of stuff and decided I didn't want to lose sleep over it any more.
So instead of what I used to do at school which was try and work out the mind games and make a play against them (I suck at it, I just don't have it in me to be two faced or manipulative even if I try) I played into her game.
I sat down at 5am and wrote her an email basically saying that she wins, she gets all the power. She's pissed at me because I'm always negative and she doesn't really think that I have the right to be as depressed as I seem and because she always gets what she wants and sometimes I don't give her what she wants.
So I wrote her this email detailing all of the depression incidents that I've had recently and pointing out that before her crap started I was barely hanging on. Then I said that whether or not she thinks I've got the right to be as depressed as I am the fact is that I am, its not just another mind game to me like it is to her, my doctor didn't prescribe prozac on a whim. I gave her all the goods on me, said she could go around telling everyone I was a self-harming emo trying to get attention, or harassing her through emails or probably take the information in the email to my doctor and get me sent for psychological evaluation again, she has it all in writing and can make my life the living hell she clearly doesn't believe it already is if she wants.
Or she could take this as a 'YOU WIN, you're better at manipulation and mind games and whatever else than me and if you carry on you will probably make me move out and drop out of uni. Or you can see it as the act of fucking desperation it is and cut me some slack because I was barely coping before.' And asked her to be civil to me for the sake of my mental health and everyone else in the house.
Well she's still ignoring me so I have no idea if she even bothered to read the email but I certainly feel a lot better for changing my actions. Rather than trying to do something I cant I did what I'm best at, being totally blunt and honest and putting myself out there, and if she chooses to tell everyone all sorts of stuff about me and drives me out of the house then at least I went down balls-out, guns-blazing knowing that she has no soul and that I'm a much better person for not being around her. Changing my thoughts and actions really has made me feel better about it, even if she keeps up the mental crap
Sorry this is turning into a blog
Edited to add that I'm also selling her birthday present on Ebay and currently (hopefully) looking at a profit
