Can you be spiritual and an aethiest?

[kyser_soze]

To do otherwise,is to box yourself into a particular belief,and that's not nessissary (I'm sorry,it's just after lunch and I've forgootten how to spell,yes,it would have been quicker to ggogle the spelling,rather than write this)

Easy way to remember necessary...1 collar, two socks...

 

[xes]

Easy way to remember necessary...1 collar, two socks...

yeah but you're talking to me,so I'm soooo swapping the s+c around

 

[danny la rouge]

But what about the singularity itself?

What about it?

 

[Idaho]

What about it?

Do you reckon it was called Trevor?

 

[danny la rouge]

Do you reckon it was called Trevor?

I have no evidence one way or the other, but it's as good a name as any.

Do you want to call it God? If you do, go for it; it makes not one whit of practical difference, as far as I can see.

 

[xes]

But what about the singularity itself? The place/event/concept that sparked the big bang? Science understands the rules as we can measure and predict them, but it doesn't negate a rule writer.

i was watching something on National geographic the other day to do with this. They basicly said that all the matter in the big bang,came from nothing. Which is slightly perplexing

 

[fredfelt]

Do you reckon it was called Trevor?

If someone believe that black holes are called Trevor could they be atheists?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

It depends on what you mean by spiritual. If you are referring to fulfilling ones species-being <waits for that to be picked on> - that is taking pleasure in work, rest, play, art, literature, environment, nature, love, music, poetry - in a way that inspires or makes one feel whole and enriched, then yes, of course. I feel awe when I climb a mountain and enjoy the panoply of nature, for example.

If you mean a belief in something supernatural (ie notions bound up with the idea of a soul as separate from one's body), then no.

I would say that the idea of "fulfilling ones species being" is perhaps less meaningful than the word spiritual (well you did practically beg....).

That is essentially a teleological perspective, implying that we have a set purpose, and on top of that, that you know what said purpose is. Surely a mor likely purpose is to maim kill and torture, for that is what happens more.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Yeah you could, but you'd end up with some severe cognitive dissonance I reckon...

Sure you would end up with some cognitive dissonance, but is their any logical way for this dissonance to be resolved? Or, as per cognotive dissonance theory, would one of those principles take precedence at the expense of the other?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

If you can't be bothered with the dogma associated with mainstream religion then spiritualism is the way to go.

Surely an atheist can believe what they want.

I'm not talking about religion per se, here though. I'm talking about any supernatural force, associated with a pre-ordained belief system or otherwise....

 

[Jon-of-arc]

But it's your belief system that classes things as supernatural or otherwise.

I also think that supernatural beliefs, although related to belief in God is not the same as a belief in a creator / super being / beardy chap.

This.

 

[danny la rouge]

I would say that the idea of "fulfilling ones species being" is perhaps less meaningful than the word spiritual (well you did practically beg....).

It means to be fully human.

 

[Idaho]

I have no evidence one way or the other, but it's as good a name as any.

Do you want to call it God? If you do, go for it; it makes not one whit of practical difference, as far as I can see.

So you're saying Trevor is as good a name as any?! Would you call your own son Trevor?

 

[danny la rouge]

So you're saying Trevor is as good a name as any?! Would you call your own son Trevor?

No. And I'm quite happy with the traditional name, personally.

 

[weltweit]

Believing in God usually means you believe in the creation on the seventh day etc

Believing in spiritual stuff just means that, you do not have to believe in God to believe in spiritual stuff.

 

[adc069975]

I completely agree. The problem is that spirituality, as opposed to its etymological baggage, refers to that experiential/psycho-social domain which religion claims a monopoly on. It's about human experiences, fulfillment, connection, and meaning. We are our own source of salvation; not god, as mystics (who were like proto-atheists) said.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In a way, I think atheism is the most 'spiritual' position of all. Those with religious beliefs stop at some level of explanation and say 'god did it'. An atheist keeps digging as far as they can go until explanation has been exhausted.

Like a child asking 'why, why, why?', the questioning atheist is never satisfied. The theist, at some point, is.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

It means to be fully human.

Well, being fully human doesn't really involve any amount of fulfilment. You either are or you are not.

But you ignore the main point - what is to say that to become "fully human", we must do all of those (very nice) things which you mention? How does anything we do make us more or less human? Who decided that said "fulfillments" are the "one true path"?

 

[fela fan]

It depends on what you mean by spiritual. If you are referring to fulfilling ones species-being <waits for that to be picked on> - that is taking pleasure in work, rest, play, art, literature, environment, nature, love, music, poetry - in a way that inspires or makes one feel whole and enriched, then yes, of course. I feel awe when I climb a mountain and enjoy the panoply of nature, for example.

This is a good description.

I would add that spirituality (awareness and awe for all life, particularly nature: trees mountains streams birds flowers and so on) necessitates that the God we are all told about by religious sorts is killed off. The being spiritual that i think of cannot happen unless God is retired to the bollocks from whence he came.

However, i see existence, the all of it, the whole of it, as 'God'.

Further: spirituality is a thing for individuals, religion is just another coat for politics, it's all about a few men trying to control the rest of us because they're so miserably controlled themselves by their devotion to their God who simply does not exist except in their minds.

 

[fela fan]

yeah,sort of like that. And as we're made from the universe,we are ourselves,God. Or something,I'm still trying to get my head around my experiences.

God is, I am not
I am, God is not

Kill the bugger off and out goes religion and in comes 'spirituality'. Out goes being controlled by other humans, in comes the beauty of nature.

The real 'god' is ourselves, existence, nature, life. We are simultaneously part of the whole, and we are the whole.

But remember, existence doesn't judge. With God, we have judgment, and we have the ultimate cop-out, we can blame him for things. Awareness is the bridge to 'spirituality'.

 

[888]

What way?

Not believing in God. It's quite possible to believe in spirits, souls, karma, the Devil, reincarnation and so on without believing in a creator-god. In fact, I don't see any necessary connection at all between theism and spirituality. You could equally believe that God created the universe, but when we die, that's it.

Or to take the word spiritual less literally, seeking knowledge about one's self, mind, purpose in life, and the meaning of the universe could be interpreted as being spiritual.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well, being fully human doesn't really involve any amount of fulfilment. You either are or you are not.

We're talking quality of life here, not biological taxonomy. It was a turn of phrase.

Who decided that said "fulfillments" are the "one true path"?

Nobody is talking about any such thing. I'm just referring to things that feel nice. You can relate it to ideas such as Mazlow's hierarchy of needs if you like. All I'm saying, though, is that with those experiences people tend to feel better about themselves, and without them they tend to feel worse.

 

[danny la rouge]

Not believing in God. It's quite possible to believe in spirits, souls, karma, the Devil, reincarnation and so on without believing in a creator-god.

We'll, I suppose so, but only just. I think most people would understand that it isn't just a Creator God, but any kind of god or gods, and their works and milieu, that atheists don't believe in.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I had this conversation with a friend, who had a interesting perspective. She made 3 distinctions of what "spiritual" can mean. The last level is religion, and the middle level is the more typical definition of spirituality (ooo, me chakras etc.) But she said the first, or proto level is the feeling of wonder at the world, i.e. looking at the mind boggling complexity of the physical world and the subject experience of it, and going "wow". For some people the wonder becomes spiritual, and she feels it is a form of spirituality.

I think she has a point in how these things develop, however I don't really think that counts as spiritual, even though it may be a semantics thing. I think the wonder is viewed very differently by many atheists than more traditional notions of spirituality. And I think the wonder is enriching, in a similar (if not exactly the same) way to personal spirituality is to some.

 

[danny la rouge]

I had this conversation with a friend, who had a interesting perspective. She made 3 distinctions of what "spiritual" can mean. The last level is religion, and the middle level is the more typical definition of spirituality (ooo, me chakras etc.) But she said the first, or proto level is the feeling of wonder at the world, i.e. looking at the mind boggling complexity of the physical world and the subject experience of it, and going "wow". For some people the wonder becomes spiritual, and she feels it is a form of spirituality.

I think she has a point in how these things develop, however I don't really think that counts as spiritual, even though it may be a semantics thing. I think the wonder is viewed very differently by many atheists than more traditional notions of spirituality. And I think the wonder is enriching, in a similar (if not exactly the same) way to personal spirituality is to some.

My take on it is that we have the types of needs I described earlier, and that there are many ways of fulfilling them, religious spirituality being one.

If you look at a caged animal - a pack animal kept alone, a parrot without room to fly properly, a lion with only space to pace - they get stressed because they cannot fully exercise their normal behaviours; they cannot fully realise what it is to be a parrot or a lion. So they resort to repetitive behaviours etc. Humans, being animals, are the same if they cannot fully express what it is to be human, which includes those experiences we call spirituality. They way in which people fulfil those needs is many and varied. However, they do need to be fulfilled.

 

[fredfelt]

... But she said the first, or proto level is the feeling of wonder at the world, i.e. looking at the mind boggling complexity of the physical world and the subject experience of it, and going "wow". For some people the wonder becomes spiritual, and she feels it is a form of spirituality.

I guess this is how I feel spiritual. I find my 'God' in the beauty of life. In being able to experience the crazy chaos that's our universe.

I reckon 'God' is to be found somewhere between the Newton and the Quantum world. That crazy bit in the middle. Only known by our consciousness. The thing that no human is able to explain. Maybe with our brains at the very centre.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

We're talking quality of life here, not biological taxonomy. It was a turn of phrase.

Nobody is talking about any such thing. I'm just referring to things that feel nice. You can relate it to ideas such as Mazlow's hierarchy of needs if you like. All I'm saying, though, is that with those experiences people tend to feel better about themselves, and without them they tend to feel worse.

OK, OK. Can't really jump on those suggestions.