Can we talk about Carillion

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by gawkrodger, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. gawkrodger

    gawkrodger Well-Known Member

    Carillion, the second largest construction company in the UK and a massive outsourcing company is on the verge of going under

    The company that runs Britain is near to collapse. Watch and worry | Aditya Chakrabortty

    Carillion crisis looms for government as time runs out for refinancing deal

    Carillion in crisis as outsourcing operation crumbles under debt

    Critical construction industry watchers have been saying how screwed the UK construction industry is, and plenty of people have been banging on about Carillion being a walking disaster zone for the past 3-4 years (if not longer). As the Chakrabortty piece (first Grauinaid link) stresses, it's mad that despite the state of Carillion being common industry knowledge, the govt. has kept on handing over contract after contract.

    As it's now 'too big to fail', and will royally fuck the government it it does so (and could be a potential recession trigger) I suspect we will see a state bailout by Tuesday/Wednesday.
     
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model One star in sight

    I hoped the last line was going to be funeral
     
    redcogs likes this.
  3. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    The market value of the entire company is £60m right now, the government should nationalise the fucking thing. long term it would save the taxpayer a friggin fortune. Thats very simplistic i know, but it would.
     
    SpackleFrog, telbert, Slo-mo and 5 others like this.
  4. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    More likely a foreign company will come in and buy them, the uk government will give them loads of cash to save company, they'll slash layers of managemen and make loads of redundancies, strip out what they want, then let the company fail anyway.
     
  5. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

  6. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

    annoyingly I keep reading this as Marillion and going 'cayliegh, is it to late to say I'm sorry, maybe we can get back together again'.
     
    A380, girasol, maomao and 16 others like this.
  7. toblerone3

    toblerone3 Grrrrr

    state bailout. Might as well nationalise it.
     
  8. SaskiaJayne

    SaskiaJayne Rural Guerrilla

    The Tories are so fuckin finished. :thumbs:
     
    Rimbaud likes this.
  9. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Vince Cable was on the radio earlier saying that the taxpayer shouldn't take all of the hit, that the shareholders and banks should take the brunt of it.
     
    dylanredefined, likesfish and Rimbaud like this.
  10. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Does he know how shareholding works?

    Shareholders will take a hit by the fact that the company is worthless and they paid a fortune for their shares, they have no other liability. If the banks take a hit, as pointed out above, the tax payer will take the hit anyway! He's a clueless fuck.
     
  11. mx wcfc

    mx wcfc Well-Known Member

    I get what you mean but this is

    Privatise profit
    Nationalise losses.

    Not even the Tories will accept that? Will they?

    Just take the contracts off them and employ their staff. People keep their jobs, taxpayer keeps their money.

    Another abject failure of capitalism. Hopefully big enough to bugger up HS2.
     
    likesfish, Slo-mo and coley like this.
  12. William of Walworth

    William of Walworth Festographer

  13. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    But it would be cheaper to nationalise the entire company, although they take on the debts it might actually be cheaper than the total reorganisation needed.
     
    Slo-mo likes this.
  14. mx wcfc

    mx wcfc Well-Known Member

    Neither of us know about the inner workings of this, but if "we" nationalise Carillion, we (taxpayers) will end up with the debt. If the state just takes back the contracts, we don't get the debt. The work involved in the contracts needs to be done so the state is going to have to take it over (so people should keep their jobs) - but the state does not have to take over the debt that Carillion has.

    I think.
     
    instape, A380, muscovyduck and 3 others like this.
  15. Ground Elder

    Ground Elder Well-Known Member

    More annoyingly, so will we all now :mad:
     
  16. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    But the taxpayer owns the banks anyway, so we still pick up the debt, and to take over contracts in a piece meal basis might actually be more costly than keeping the company going with the debt as a going concern, albeit it in public ownership.
     
  17. mx wcfc

    mx wcfc Well-Known Member

    How much of the banks do we still own though? I don't think it's a lot.
     
  18. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    Yes, and what a bloody horrible song. BUT, I was only vaguely aware of it at the time, it being on radio, I suppose, but now I went to find out about it and found it be on Top of the Pops.


    Hell! Never saw it before.

    It is so dire, utterly horrible, vile, lacking in adjectives to be enough bad.
     
    spikey_r, Kaka Tim and Voley like this.
  19. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    But how many 'directorships' would be lost?
     
    Celyn likes this.
  20. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    First sensible utterance from Cable...ever...
     
    Celyn likes this.
  21. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    Not if they nationalise it properly, E.g. Give them a quid, write off all executive pensions redundancies golden Farewells ect.
    Taking on the existing workforce shouldn't be a problem, as Carillion will have employed them on the meanest terms available, even an emergency terms of employment will probably be a big improvement on their current TOE.
    Let's hope it hope it will bury HS
     
    likesfish and mx wcfc like this.
  22. Smoking kills

    Smoking kills Well-Known Member

    This is going to hit sub-contractors hardest, whichever way the banks, accountants and share holders dismember the corpse. As usual.
     
  23. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    2 ripoff failures for the price of...well, 2. I could see that happening :(
     
  24. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    Also, they'll gut the pension fund, just to make sure as much of the pain as possible is inflicted on the non-fat cats.
     
  25. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    Yeah, and at this time the LibDems are not the ones shoring up a Tory Government. This must be SO much fun for the Lib Dems.
    I don't forget, though.
     
    William of Walworth likes this.
  26. yield

    yield zero

    RBS over 70%. Lloyds bank was fully privatised last year
     
    Slo-mo likes this.
  27. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    The shareholders have already taken a bath - the share price is already down 15x in a year.
     
  28. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    Lloyds is back in private hands & it looks like RBS is a fairly small lender, according to one of the links in the OP, Carillion’s main lenders are Barclays, HSBC and Santander.
     
  29. SaskiaJayne

    SaskiaJayne Rural Guerrilla

    The down the pan they go option would include massive losses for banks & Tory voting shareholders. Small subcontractors owned by Tory voting Charlie Mullins types would not get paid & probably go bust. Pension fund tab would have to be partially picked up by pension protection fund. Existing workers could be re employed as public sector workers doing same jobs. Is that right?

    Is there a way of resolving this that would actually benefit ordinary taxpayers in the long term by bringing privatised services back into public ownership?

    I think the problem here is that there are wheels within wheels at work that the general public can never hope to understand. There will be no good ending except where people who caused this & have profited massively lose everything they have personally made out of this which won’t happen.
     
  30. 8115

    8115 sitting down is bad for you

    Dividends being paid to shareholders as recently as last year, apparently.
     

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