Can we have a cycling thread without some twat going on bout cyclists jumping lights

[Cobbles]

Pfft how many casualties have ever been caused by a bike jumping lights?

presumably mainly cyclists being mown down by buses legally passing through a green light.

 

[mauvais]

How many of earth's precious resources were squandered to produce this?

You should use public transport which is made from non carboniferous materials which don't need to be welded together by semi slave waged labourers in the 3rd world (hopefully).

I don't have a car, or indeed a driving licence, so I'm legally entitled to set fire to any number of rainforests, and throw starving third world children onto the subsequent pyre. The only question is how to console the difference in geography. There's only so many of them in South America you know. Perhaps I'll fly some in.

 

[Crispy]

Er... like not getting charged down by a herd of escaped rhinos?

No, like setting off from the lights 7 seconds early so that I can get across three lanes of traffic from the cycle lane to the right lane. Waiting for green at that junction means I have to negotiate lots of moving traffic, all changing lanes. The junction has wide views and the merging traffic stops a good 20-30 seconds before the through traffic gets the green.

It's twats like the guy I saw the other day not even brake through a red light coming downhill, and came within millimeters of runningover a child, who are the real danger.

 

[Cobbles]

No, like setting off from the lights 7 seconds early so that I can get across three lanes of traffic from the cycle lane to the right lane. Waiting for green at that junction means I have to negotiate lots of moving traffic, all changing lanes. The junction has wide views and the merging traffic stops a good 20-30 seconds before the through traffic gets the green.

It's twats like the guy I saw the other day not even brake through a red light coming downhill, and came within millimeters of runningover a child, who are the real danger.

Did you take down his registration and report the incident? - at least you can do that with a taxed vehicle displaying number plates.

Should I be allowed to drive at 90 on the motorway just because it's my personal opinion that it's safer for me to stay ahead of the herd? - of course not.

 

[Crispy]

'Allowed?' - no you are not allowed. It's illegal. However, the last time I checked, the law didn't have everything quite right. Drugs laws for (a rather irrelevat, I know) example.

It is illegal to go through red lights and I know it full well. However, as with many laws, it is general and does not allow for specific cases where following the letter of the law would actually result in less safety. I'll draw you a diagram of the junction I was talking about (which is one of only a handful of places on my commute where I'd even consider going through red) and you can tell me if you think my law breaking is dangerous. Back in a minute.

 

[Orang Utan]

Also, you seem to have a hell of a lot of run in's with people whilst riding your bike...

Yes, I bet he's a right arrogant inconsiderate cyclist who give us all a bad name - I've never had a run in with anyone - not been cycling long mind.

 

[Orang Utan]

Jumping red lights is something I only ever do if it's for safety reasons. I see plenty of cyclists who do it for selfish impatiant reasons, and that ticks me off...

Hear hear

 

[Orang Utan]

I also think cyclists should hold insurance and pay some road tax

 

[Cobbles]

you can tell me if you think my law breaking is dangerous. QUOTE]
Yes as all other road users have a reasonable expectation that others will be obeying the same law as them.

If the law isn't "right" (in your opinion), then seek to have it changed, don't just arbitrarily decide which parts of RT Legislation you feel like adhering to at any point in time.

 

[dylanredefined]

The insurance is possible a good idea but road tax ? How would you enforce it
its not like you could put a tax disc on a bike.And what aboutpeople who own more than one bike going to tax the rider or the bicycle .Or the mountain biker who normally just rides off road and decides occasionly to ride to the shops?
what next mots .Its a bicycle even a chunky tired mtb is hadly doing damage to a road surface.True a cyclist may hold you up on the road and getaway from the lights faster but at least its one less car on the road so slightly easier to find a parking space .

 

[Orang Utan]

I'll let other people deal with the practicalities thank you!
I only say it cos I wanted to complain to the council about the dangerous state of Brixton Road, esp near the station and someone told me that council tax doesn't pay for that, but road tax does - so I can't complain unless I'm helping to pay for the road's upkeep.

 

[Roadkill]

I also think cyclists should hold insurance and pay some road tax

I don't.

We should be encouraging more people to cycle, not putting them off with bureaucracy and expense.

Leave insurance and tax for the car drivers: they're the ones piloting a ton of metal around at speeds far faster than a bike.

 

[Cobbles]

The insurance is possible a good idea but road tax ? How would you enforce it
its not like you could put a tax disc on a bike.

You can put a tax disc on a motor cycle therefore it's just as easy to put one on a bicycle.

Similarly, I would argue that if I can only drive one car at a time but I own two, why should I pay tax more than once?

If I have a trail bike that is never used on the public road, then it doesn't need to be taxed.

 

[Cobbles]

I'll let other people deal with the practicalities thank you!
I only say it cos I wanted to complain to the council about the dangerous state of Brixton Road, esp near the station and someone told me that council tax doesn't pay for that, but road tax does - so I can't complain unless I'm helping to pay for the road's upkeep.

Road tax isn't hypothecated and just disappears into the Government's general swag bag (more's the pity).

If a road's in a state of disrepair, then it's the Local Authority's duty (or the Highways agency) to maintain it and you can complain away, whether you pay tax or not.

 

[dylanredefined]

Road tax is hardly enforced now .So why buy bike tax?

 

[Orang Utan]

Road tax is hardly enforced now .So why buy bike tax?

<shrugs>

 

[Cobbles]

a cyclist may hold you up on the road and getaway from the lights faster

Faster? - than what - a 1920's model T - what's the average cyclist's 0-30 capability (how many cyclists manage 30MPH in the city centre?).

That's what made the restriction of mopeds to 30MPH so dangerous - all of a sudden they couldn't keep up with the general flow of traffic as the only way of ensuring they couldn't get past 30 was to cripple their overall power output and therefore acceleration.

 

[Orang Utan]

If a road's in a state of disrepair, then it's the Local Authority's duty (or the Highways agency) to maintain it and you can complain away, whether you pay tax or not.

I will - there's some well dangerous potholes on my way to work

 

[Crispy]

Road repairs are not directly funded by road tax. All the money goes in to the treasury and then money comes back out. The levels of tax are not based on the money required for the roads, and they don't limit road spending to the amount of road tax collected.

Anyway, here's a pretty picture of a jucntion that I used to regularly jump red at (I've moved house now, so no longer need to)

I amd riding left to right in this diagram. I stop at the traffic lights at A. My final destination is to turn right at D. The traffic lights serve to control traffic merging from B. Traffic is forbidden from turning right from A to B. The corner between A and B has a wide pavement and vidibility is excellent. When the traffic at B has stopped, and I have checked all around me for pedestrians, I would jump the red light and make my way across the three lanes at C to reach the turning. During this time, there is no other traffic on the road I am on. If I wait for green at A, then in order to get into the correct lane at D, I have to cross three lanes of moving traffic. Bear in mind that the other cars on the road are also shifting lanes etc.

I still cycle past this junction, but now I stay in the bus lane from A and then around the left hand bend. I no longer jump the red light.

That's one of the rare cases where I would jump red. Other cases are at purely pedestrian crossings. I will stop at red, but if there are no pedestrians near the crossing (note, not "about to use", but "near" - there can be no margin for error) then I will slowly go over the red and therefore put some distance between me and the traffic. It is when going from stationary to moving that bicycles are unstable - doing this manouver without the added distraction of battling 2-3 lanes of traffic at the same time is why I jump red lights.

Thankfully, the growing number of forward waiting zones is making this less and less neccesary. That is, if there isn't a bus, taxi, van or car parked in it

 

[pogofish]

The insurance is possible a good idea but road tax ? How would you enforce it
its not like you could put a tax disc on a bike.

Switzerland, a few years back when I was there required you to take your bike/s to the office where citizens got their guns checked & after a basic safety examination, you paid a single fee & got a little numberplate to put on your bike. This was the road-tax, MOT & membership of the national/cantonal third-party insurance scheme all-in one. For extra insurance above that, you could buy top-ups commercially.

A kid getting caught with an unplated/out of daye bike might usually expect a mild finger wagging whilst their parents or an adult rider would get a visit & a surprisingly hefty fine!

 

[pogofish]

so I can't complain unless I'm helping to pay for the road's upkeep.

Yes you can. All road users & pedestrians have the right to complain about shitty roads no matter if tax is levied on them or not.

 

[Cobbles]

Thankfully, the growing number of forward waiting zones is making this less and less neccesary. That is, if there isn't a bus, taxi, van or car parked in it

What's the point in those zones - it just slows down the traffic flow to the speed of the slowest cyclist. Local Authorities should spend the money on implementing proper vehicle segregation rather than introducing artificial choke points which simply create congestion where none existed before.

 

[pogofish]

Road tax is hardly enforced now .So why buy bike tax?

Not anyomre - since they got that that database system operating, the number of people being caught-out for road tax has rocketed.

 

[Crispy]

What's the point in those zones - it just slows down the traffic flow to the speed of the slowest cyclist. Local Authorities should spend the money on implementing proper vehicle segregation rather than introducing artificial choke points which simply create congestion where none existed before.

Well,

1. There isn't road space on most city roads for proper vehicle segregation, that is unless you really want to see the meaning of the word 'chokepoint'

2. Pushing off from a standing start is where bicycles are at their most vulnerable. It is spinning wheels that keep a bike upright, so when you're barely moving, you're barely stable. Having an extra three meters to push off in means that by the time I'm mixed in with cars again, I'm up to speed and stable.

3. As for congestion, I find that they make the road I'm on much more free flowing and easier to ride on, instead of having to stick behind the slowest moving lorry and give way to cars all the time.

 

[Orang Utan]

What junction is that Crispy?
I don't quite understand your post so need a visual!

 

[Crispy]

Kennington park is to the top of that map. 'D' is on the corner with Oval tube station. There's some bits missing, and it's all from memory, so excuse any errors. It's still hairy as fuck trying to get across to D though. Even if you're just planning to keep straight on to Clapham.

 

[Orang Utan]

Ah! I see what you mean now!

 

[Orang Utan]

Still haven't dared jump a red yet though

 

[Crispy]

Don't feel you have to.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't - at that sort of junction, I usually hold back until the lights go red, then weave my way through the stationary traffic and get right in front of the first car that is also turning right, so that when the light goes green, the car has no choice but to follow behind you until you get a decent speed and drift to the side, allowing it to pass.