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Can Someone Explain The Power of Vocal Harmony?

There's nothing in music as great as a brilliant human voice IMO and when you have a couple of them it gets spiritual. You don't even have to like football to get emotional when 30000 people are singing .. you'd never do that with 30000 guitars or pianos for example I don't think.
Listen to Maria Callas Tosca for the perfect example of the human voice .. or Cash on the Barrelhead by The Louvin brothers .. Simon and Garfunkel .. Nancy Griffith and that
 
sam/phallocrat said:
polui's doing work on psychacoustics at the moment I think . . . I wonder if he'll happen upon this thread . . .

Fruitloop said:
Some of the stuff posted is a bit ethnocentric IMO. I mean 'bass' is not a generally recognised essential feature of music as a whole at all. Counterpoint has a lowest line, but it's not a 'bass' as such - I reckon you could argue that true bass doesn't arrive until figured bass, Rousseau's treatise on harmony etc.

I reckon music is an emergent phenomenon of other kinds of mental activity, including the warning/affective cries and gestural communication that precede speech in out primate ancestors, the necessity of auditory streaming of an environment (an amazing feat, given that it's all constructed purely out of a single point of pressure variation within the ear), the illusory construction of a single present moment out of the integration of various concurrent perceptual streams, and other random abilities like what I would call the timbral sense - i.e. the knowledge of what kind of thing would make a noise like that (there's a survival advantage in knowing if the thing crashing through the trees is a gazelle or a rhino, and knocking on metal never sounds like knocking on wood).

Mixed in with that you have the added complications of acoustics per se (reflection, absorbtion etc), psychoacoustics (like the 'beating' that you hear when two notes are close together in pitch, which doesn't exist in the outside world but is a product of your brain integrating iinformation from two ears facing in opposite directions). Psychoacoustics is what gives you 'notes' in the first place - apart from pure sine tones all notes are made up of a variety of frequencies, and if you bang on a relatively untuned saucepan you can hear the apparent pitch change as your brain tries to get a single (or multiple) note 'lock' on an essentially unrelated set of overlayed sinusoids. The subsidiary tones in a complex tone also give rise to formants etc, which are essential to voice timbral recognition. This is a huge topic and still not well understood, although there are a few folks on here who are working on the problem (I'll let them 'out' themselves if they want to).

Then you have the higher-order enculturated stuff - like the categorical perception of scale steps (octaves are fairly ubiquitous, but the rest of the scale is learned to a large extent) and topical association (the real basis of musical affect), which is also essentially arbitrary in a semiotic way. For example, death music is slow and sombre in many cultures, but fast and ever-increasingly frenzied in others. Carl Dalhaus complained that the lydian fourth (I think - don't quote me!) was used in the 19th century as an exoticist topic, a historicist one, a religious indication etc etc - which one was approriate being indicated by the surrounding circumstances - like the title of the piece!


I think that'll do for this thread.
 
8ball said:
I'd never have had you down as liking something like Rachel Unthank :D

see, i never know what to think when people say stuff like that :D

it means i must present myself as only liking certain kinds of things, which i'm sure isn't the case.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
I've got a fairly reasonable knowledge of the technical ins and outs of music theory/acoustics, so I know how these things are created, how they interact etc etc.

As to why they work in the way they do - do you know what? I don't want to know. There are some things in life I'm just happy to accept that simply, well, just are.

Music IMHO is possibly the single greatest thing humans have ever produced or can experience, and I'm quite happy for it to retain a certain degree of mystery, it's about the one thing on earth that would sadden me if reduced to a simple* formula.

:cool:
Top post :cool:
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
I've got a fairly reasonable knowledge of the technical ins and outs of music theory/acoustics, so I know how these things are created, how they interact etc etc.

As to why they work in the way they do - do you know what? I don't want to know. There are some things in life I'm just happy to accept that simply, well, just are.

Music IMHO is possibly the single greatest thing humans have ever produced or can experience, and I'm quite happy for it to retain a certain degree of mystery, it's about the one thing on earth that would sadden me if reduced to a simple* formula
That's the opposite of my mindset. I like to know how things work. And with music, I mean, it's not like you're just gonna 'break its spell' after reading a few things about it - it's just too huge a phenomenon
 
I"m addicted to vocal harmony in seashanties & traditional (UK traditional) songs - try Kimber's Men for the former, Blue Murder for the latter. [Why do UK folk bands often have such miserable names? Blue Murder????]
 
I love harmonies, especially a cappella performances

listen and enjoy, this is incredibly beautiful, although I'm sure most here will already know of this choir





I also vaguely remember reading about one of the canary islands, IMMIC it's El Hierro, which is extremely mountainous and which has a long tradition amongst the islanders of yodelling to communicate, just like in the Swiss Alps. The inhabitants also have an ancient tradition of singing in harmonies and the ability to sing and yodel well is considered extremely attractive by the opposite sex. Just wanted to share that


:)
 
and on a different tip entirely , but so heavenly, one of my fave songs of recent years with sublime sampling and harmonies



*dances round the room* :)
 
IMHO, one of the greatest single harmonic vocal key changes is the one in that Gregorian chant. You know the one. You know the bit. Single male voice delivering the opening part.......then key shift and everyone comes in full diddly.



:cool:



Simon and Garfunkle without the Harmonies would just be.....um.....Simon.

Or Garfunkle.


Ur. Too much Wild Turkey in the daytime makes Swarfega a silly boy. Please igore me.


Good thread BTW


:cool:


:rolleyes:


:mad:
 
rorymac said:
There's nothing in music as great as a brilliant human voice IMO and when you have a couple of them it gets spiritual. You don't even have to like football to get emotional when 30000 people are singing .. you'd never do that with 30000 guitars or pianos for example I don't think.
Listen to Maria Callas Tosca for the perfect example of the human voice .. or Cash on the Barrelhead by The Louvin brothers .. Simon and Garfunkel .. Nancy Griffith and that

Are you drunk?


I understood and agreed with all of that.


:mad:
 
A couple of points about harmony in English folk song (which is kind of where Dub kind of came in, in the OP, talking about Rachel Unthank).

* "blood harmonies", i.e. when members of the same family sing together. Whether it's the Copper family, the Watersons, or Rachel & Beccy Unthank. Voices of similar quality & tone singing in harmony has a certain visceral power, IMO. This is especially the case when the harmonies are close. You also get this in some pop music -- think of the Everley Brothers singing the chorus to Cathy's Clown, for instance. Also, the voices tend to "cross", which is a big no-no in most classical music, for instance, giving that interweaving quality.

* modal scales. A lot of English folk song is modal, rather being based on the traditional musical scale. More especially, the "third" note tends to be missing -- i.e. the note that puts a song in a major or a minor key. This, incidentally, is why folkie guitarists tend not to use the conventional guitar tuning, because conventional chords don't fit, or sound a bit twee. This means that the natural harmony to sing is often the "fifth" (C & G, D & A or whatever). And, as lovers of "power chords" know, that gives a certain quality.

You can get a feeling for the various modes by playing the white notes on a keyboard, but starting on notes other than C. Starting on C and playing up to the next C on the white notes is a conventional major scale (Ionian mode), starting on the D is almost like a "natural minor" key, but unlike the conventional scale of D minor, has what (in conventional musical parlance) would be called a "sharpened seventh" -- i.e. it's B natural not B flat. And so on, E to E, F to F, etc.

All of these modal scales have names (derived from ancient Greek musical theory), but I can't remember them.

Well you did ask. :o
 
^^^^^^^^

Genuinely interesting - especially the "Blood harmonies" which though perhaps obvious in a way, had never occurred to me.

:)
 
the button

I would love to understand your post 79. I know about the Copper family and the Watersons. I have heard a lot of folk music in my time and enjoy it but not understanding anything about music, only how it affects me. I love to listen to harmony singing for example the Beach Boys - no-one ever mentions them in this context, just taking their sound for granted.

I know a lot of highly talented amateur musicians and when they talk technical to each other it makes me want to learn about it. I don't know where to start though, I have never even started to learn an instrument and I can't even sing because I have a 'hole' in the middle of my voice. (my vocal range, not my throat)

<Goes on his way whistling tunelessly.>
 
Hocus Eye. said:
the button

I would love to understand your post 79. I know about the Copper family and the Watersons. I have heard a lot of folk music in my time and enjoy it but not understanding anything about music, only how it affects me. I love to listen to harmony singing for example the Beach Boys - no-one ever mentions them in this context, just taking their sound for granted.
Yeah, understanding the maths a bit doesn't add much, tbh. When the Watersons were asked how they came up with their vocal arrangements, Mike (I think it was) said, "Sing the tune until you can't. Then sing a harmony."
 
Swarfega said:
...that Gregorian chant. You know the one. You know the bit. Single male voice delivering the opening part.......then key shift and everyone comes in full diddly.....


Can anyone provide me with the name of that one again please.


I don't actually seem to have a copy.



I thought I did, but there you go....
 
I don't think so.....


Hmmm.

It is the archetypal/stereotypical example of the genre as far as I am aware, but is no less powerful or beautiful for this.
 
Subscribing to the thread, tis great.

My aunty was in the Glasgow Orpheus and then the Glasgow Phoenix choir. plus had a cousin in the Treorchy male voice. Anyway, I was looking for some clips to illustrate what Dub meant (for me). Here are some:








There's a dearth of Welsh male voice choirs on youtube and the like ... but Ali G helps out on this one:

 
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