Camp for Climate Action

[macariesque]

I'm going down to it, manchester are organising as a neighbourhood and have been putting on a lot of climate change events/fundraisers to lead up to it. Not in a sort of "This is the biggest event of the summer and its all we're focussing on" type way, but as a sort of "We're doing a series of events/actions around the climate change issue that will culminate in this gathering" type way.

I personally don't know that much about climate change issues, and the whole climate camp campaign has already made me much more aware, which can definitely only be a good thing.

The event itself should be really interesting, an experiment in sustainable living and a few days where I can get together with other people to learn, share ideas and spend time in a beautiful rural environment. Hopefully it will inspire me to go home and put changes in place in my everyday life using what I have learned from the camp. In fact the events I've been to to do with it are already doing that. Its already having a positive, empowering effect.

 

[macariesque]

Surely it would be better to network locally, where you can actually form effective groups and spend your energy on action, rather than trekking halfway across the country to meet up with people you'll probably never see again?

People are networking locally for it.... different cities/areas are organising in groups for it. Already I've met people in my area I didnt know through the organising, and know that through working together on this issue, before, at, and after the event, some solid friendships will be formed that will help facilitate action in our area in the future.

 

[free spirit]

I dare say I'll be roped into helping out with this...

I'm not sure how effective it's going to be, but if it results in a more effective national climate change action network getting set up / re-established that's got to be positive really as there's bugger all effective happening at the moment.

am I right in thinking this is being organised by a load of the dissent crew? I think i remember this being discussed a bit in the middle of the g8 madness... seems to have the same working format & camp format as stirling & info's coming through the same networks?

some good points about the carbon footprint thing... wonder how this is going to be got over

 

[aurora green]

People are networking locally for it.... different cities/areas are organising in groups for it. Already I've met people in my area I didnt know through the organising, and know that through working together on this issue, before, at, and after the event, some solid friendships will be formed that will help facilitate action in our area in the future.

Yeah, and if anyone needs help connecting with people or wants to help form neighbourhoods, they can look here at the climate camp forum.

 

[In Bloom]

I dare say I'll be roped into helping out with this...

I'm not sure how effective it's going to be, but if it results in a more effective national climate change action network getting set up / re-established that's got to be positive really as there's bugger all effective happening at the moment.

Nope, nothing, only ID cards/register, NHS privatisation, massive strikes over pensions and welfare "reforms" that are going to make a lot of people's lives a lot more difficuly.

Best just focus on saving the fucking polar bears, eh?

 

[aurora green]

Best just focus on saving the fucking polar bears, eh?

What's wrong with you?
Why can't you see that climate change is a thing that will affect us all, not just polar bears, or things far off in far away places.

 

[In Bloom]

What's wrong with you?
Why can't you see that climate change is a thing that will affect us all, not just polar bears, or things far off in far away places.

Of course it will, but I do find it quite telling that so many activist types put all their energy into campaigning on "the enviroment" or "Green issues" and go on and on about how "it could affect us too." Yet they never once deign to bother with the issues that affect people's day to day lives, the slow, grinding processes of alienation and exploitation that are fucking us all over. The things that you have to address as a movement if you ever want any significant degree of popular support.

Which leads me to one of two conclusions:

1. They don't really give a shit about human beings or;
2. They haven't really thought this through

 

[Kid_Eternity]

You telling me that rising gas prices, health issues due to pollution, flooding etc don’t affect ordinary people?

Just how up close and personal does it have to get before it’s relevant?

 

[In Bloom]

You telling me that rising gas prices, health issues due to pollution, flooding etc don’t affect ordinary people?

Just how up close and personal does it have to get before it’s relevant?

I didn't say that climate change couldn't affect ordinary people, I was just pointing that there are more immediate, more pressing concerns.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I didn't say that climate change couldn't affect ordinary people, I was just pointing that there are more immediate, more pressing concerns.

If you ask me my asthma returning due to pollution or my gas bills going up are "pressing concerns".

 

[TeeJay]

I didn't say that climate change couldn't affect ordinary people, I was just pointing that there are more immediate, more pressing concerns.

This is a pathetic argument - there are a whole list of things that are worth campaigning for - poverty, war, human rights, the environment and so forth. It really a sterile and immature 6th-form argument: "My campaign is bigger than your campaign". The fact is that effective campaigns need to be focussed. Some groups pick one thing, while others pickj something else. They then swap information and support each other. It isn't an either you are with us or against us thing. Maybe you want everyone to support your global-revolutionary-anarcho-whatever ... so what is it exactly that you are doing btw? are you actually involved in anything at all? or do you justy sit around bitching about other people's events and campaigns?

This thread is about climate change whether you like it or not. I could try and derail all threads, debates and campaigns to scream and shout about malaria, TB and AIDS in Africa ... they kill far more people than low wages for London underground workers or whatever ... but how do you think it would go down at every single meeting on a whole range of topics if I told everyone that they were ful of shit for discussing ID cards or alienation when "kids are dying in Africa"? Like I said you need to grow up.

You mention libcom, @ bookfair, indymedia etc... I am not surprised that you didn't name check:

Climate Concern UK, the Climate Action Network, COIN, the Campaign against Climate Change, Rising Tide, Stop Climate Chaos or a whole range of alternative, low and renewable energy campaigning groups and community projects.

I don't expect you actually lnow much about this subject at all in fact, so why don't you toddle on and start a thread about your own amazing campaign and the events and actions you are organising this year.

I mean, you are actually doing something other than spouting off aren't you?

 

[In Bloom]

This is a pathetic argument - there are a whole list of things that are worth campaigning for - poverty, war, human rights, the environment and so forth. It really a sterile and immature 6th-form argument: "My campaign is bigger than your campaign". The fact is that effective campaigns need to be focussed. Some groups pick one thing, while others pickj something else. They then swap information and support each other. It isn't an either you are with us or against us thing.<lots of further, completely gratuitous ad hom snipped>

The point is whether it is worth doing, I don't think that it is possible to do anything effective on climate change as part of some tiny activist milleu with no popular support, which you won't get by only campaigning on something as abstract as climate change and ignoring everything else. Quite why this is so offensive, I don't know.

You mention libcom, @ bookfair, indymedia etc... I am not surprised that you didn't name check:

Climate Concern UK, the Climate Action Network, COIN, the Campaign against Climate Change, Rising Tide, Stop Climate Chaos or a whole range of alternative, low and renewable energy campaigning groups and community projects.

Perhaps because I was listing a few quick examples, not making a definitive list of all activist related networks formed in the entire history of the fucking planet. You muppet.

 

[TeeJay]

...I don't think that it is possible to do anything effective on climate change as part of some tiny activist milleu with no popular support, which you won't get by only campaigning on something as abstract as climate change and ignoring everything else...

IMO the most successful campaigns are tightly focussed on a specific subject. I don't know why you think climate change is abstract and "alienation" isn't - its the other way round.

By the way, are you going to tell us what you are campaigning on and what groups you are involved with? Or do you just spend your whole time bitching about other people doing things without ever doing anything yourself?

 

[aurora green]

Anyway, for anyone who might be interested in doing something,

the next Climate Camp meeting will take place on April 8 - 9
at The Commonplace, 23-25 Wharf Street, Leeds, LS2 7EQ
There's free acommodation and cheap vegan food available, more details here

then it's Bristol for May,
and London (finally ) in June...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

for those intrested in what the goverments doing or having a say on climate change there is the dti's consultation site too www.energyfuture.co.uk

as for

as part of some tiny activist milleu with no popular support

surley anything starts of this way, then if the organisation is good and the action worth while it builds up popular support until it reaches a head or are you suggesting that you shouldn't do anythign with out a majority consent from the get go??

 

[aurora green]

for those intrested in what the goverments doing or having a say on climate change there is the dti's consultation site too www.energyfuture.co.uk

That link doesn't do what it says on the tin....

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

That link doesn't do what it says on the tin....

try this one

http://www.energyfuture.org.uk/

 

[In Bloom]

surley anything starts of this way, then if the organisation is good and the action worth while it builds up popular support until it reaches a head or are you suggesting that you shouldn't do anythign with out a majority consent from the get go??

You also have to adress people's concerns and show how the issue relates to their lives, otherwise you'll get nowhere. And this sort of stuff fails to do that utterly, IMO, completely insular and ghettoised.

 

[TeeJay]

"By the way, are you going to tell us what you are campaigning on and what groups you are involved with? Or do you just spend your whole time bitching about other people doing things without ever doing anything yourself?"

Almost two weeks and I am still waiting for In Bloom to tell me a single thing they are involved with.

 

[In Bloom]

Almost two weeks and I am still waiting for In Bloom to tell me a single thing they are involved with.

Relevance?

 

[TeeJay]

I think it would put a lot of the things you say in context.

You keep pissing on everyone's bonfires and I'd like to know exactly what you do yourself other than bitch and moan about other people's efforts.

Your glaring silence on the subject would suggest the answer is "fuck all", although I am willing to keep an open mind...

So?

 

[In Bloom]

I think it would put a lot of the things you say in context.

You keep pissing on everyone's bonfires and I'd like to know exactly what you do yourself other than bitch and moan about other people's efforts.

Your glaring silence on the subject would suggest the answer is "fuck all", although I am willing to keep an open mind...

So?

So I've no intention of engaging in "I'm a better activist than you" dick waving.

It's hardly my fault if you can't argue in favour of a form of organisation properly

 

[TeeJay]

So I've no intention of engaging in "I'm a better activist than you" dick waving.

I am not trying to compare myself with you.

But for that matter are you even an "activist" at all?

Are you actually involved in any kind of political campaigning? Are you involved with any groups at all? Do you do anything at all or do you just come here and bitch and moan about what other people do?

Ultimately your constant criticisms are completely hollow if you can't point to anything you do support or make any constructive suggestions of your own.

It's not just this thread - it seems to be all you do.

 

[In Bloom]

I am not trying to compare myself with you.

I never said you were, but you are trying to personalise a debate about a particular form of political action.

But for that matter are you even an "activist" at all?

I'm a little uneasy about the connotations of the term "activist" but I do use it tenatively, in the absence of a better term. Hope that answers your question

Are you actually involved in any kind of political campaigning? Are you involved with any groups at all? Do you do anything at all or do you just come here and bitch and moan about what other people do?

I don't like doing this because it's just dick waving, really, but you seem pretty insistant.

• I'm pretty heavily involved with my local Defy-ID group, which at the moment, is largely focused on leafletting and similar stuff to try and keep the issue in people's minds and hopefully convince people to refuse to register at the moment, though we have discussed other, more direct forms of action when registration starts and have discussed co-ordinating with any related strike action with the local TUC.
• I'm a T&G member and when I am working, I try to persuade people who aren't in a union to join one.
• I'm involved with Liverpool Social Forum, which is a broadly libertarian left group. We're fairly recently formed, but we've produced a monthly freesheet which reports on local issues (particularly surrounding privatisation, environment and community resources such as the Banky trust) attended pickets at the recent AUT/NAFTHE strike, set up a convergence centre for visting protesters during the Condoleeza Rice visit last weekend, organised solidarity demonstrations outside the local Blue Arrow office during the Gate Gourmet dispute, organised minibuses up to Scotland during the G8 and leafletted Shell Stations on the Rossport day of action. We're currently discussing what (if anything ) can be done about the upcoming IB reforms and organising a 'Festival of Resistance' on the Saturday before May Day (this is going to involve taking over a street in the city centre, as yet undisclosed for obvious reasons and using the space for local grassroots campaigning groups to distribute their material and hopefully have a bit of a laugh as well as educating people on what their rights are when in comes to campaigning and leafletting).
• I'm a member of the Liverpool Social Centre collective, which is working on getting the planned social centre (as yet unnamed, but we're considering 'The Centro') up and running.
• I'm a member of the Anarchist Federation.
• I've been working on organising a Liverpool Student Anarchist group, which, hopefully, will work against the planned Capital of Culture privatisation fest, work with the unions within the university at all levels and adress issues that concern students from an anarchist POV.

Not much, really, a drop in the bucket in the big picture, but it's something and I feel that all of it has an effect, however minimal. Basically I think that the left needs to do more about the issues surrounding people's everyday lives, until we do that, we'll remain some tiny clique, totally irrelevant to the vast majority of working class people.

Now can we please stop talking about me and get back to how shit this camp is going to be?

 

[TeeJay]

I see. While you make sarcastic comments about "saving the fucking polar bears" I am going to resist making comments about Defy-ID. If that's what floats your boat then fine - I'm personally not that bothered, but I won't sit around bitching and moaning about what you choose to make your "issue of the day" or how you go about it, unless I have something coherent to say about it or any postive suggestions about how to do it better. You have said neither about either climate change or about this camp.

It is also ironic that all the the groups and networks you mention have had and continue to hold regular meetings very much like this climate camp.

You don't have a leg to stand on, other than you personally don't seem to really give a shit about environmental issues - rather like I don't really give a shit about your 'defy-id'. Sounds a bit like you get annoyed when any issue you don't personally care about gets more attention than your own pet topic. This doesn't however add up to any kind of coherent criticism of the camp.

Maybe you'd like to try again?

 

[In Bloom]

Firstly, the "save the polar bears" comment was in response to the moronic claim that "there's nothing else going on" and the environmentalism for itself approach of the sort of politics this climate camp is based upon.

As I have already said, my problems with this camp are that:

1. Eco camps of this type have been done before, so there's no need to do this just to show that alternative, more sustainable ways of organising things are possible, without a particular reason to have the camp, it's a bit of a waste of time.
2. It's just more insular, inward looking, activist milleu stuff, why just keep talking amongst ourselves if we're not going to talk to other people at the same time.

I'd be quite happy to respond to any criticisms you have of any activity I'm involved in, on a thread about those things. Again, this isn't about me.

 

[Stardark]

Climate Camp for Action

For anyone concerned about climate change, there's going to be a huge, week long gathering for people concerned about climate change
from 26th August till 4th September 2006,
aiming to bring together thousands of people to take action against climate change, and share and live practical solutions...

Read more about it at http://www.climatecamp.org.uk/index.htm,
there's a forum as well to discuss things and get involved...

I like the idea of the camp. Ever since reading my first primer on anarchy (Metzer's), it seemed to me that we waste resources by having a kitchen for every family, and the family and I are going to Pizza Hut for my son's fifth birthday (The concept of 'All-You-Can-Eat' buffets has always appealed to me ). A closer knit community can only be a good thing, in the end. Ultimately, we won't have any choice, or am I being pessimistic?

Always happy to see another forum, too.

 

[aurora green]

What ever anyones' views on the effeciveness of gathering on mass to discuss trying to find a coherent and effective way of protesting about climate change, the camp itself will not be "shit".
It's likely to be very inspiring, a chance to meet like minded people and hear ideas that people may not have heard before, and ways of trying to deal with the problems coming that we are all facing.
Just because an 'eco camp' similar to this may have gathered before, (and I can't think of one quite like this) doesn't mean it should never happen again. It's a ridiculous notion to suggest.
Things evolve and develop, and young people become of an age when they start wanting to become active. People wake up....

 

[Buds and Spawn]

What ever anyones' views on the effeciveness of gathering on mass to discuss trying to find a coherent and effective way of protesting about climate change, the camp itself will not be "shit".
It's likely to be very inspiring, a chance to meet like minded people and hear ideas that people may not have heard before, and ways of trying to deal with the problems coming that we are all facing.
Just because an 'eco camp' similar to this may have gathered before, (and I can't think of one quite like this) doesn't mean it should never happen again. It's a ridiculous notion to suggest.
Things evolve and develop, and young people become of an age when they start wanting to become active. People wake up....

Hear, hear. Positivity please people. And if you're not interested then don't go.

The point is whether it is worth doing, I don't think that it is possible to do anything effective on climate change as part of some tiny activist milleu with no popular support, which you won't get by only campaigning on something as abstract as climate change and ignoring everything else. Quite why this is so offensive, I don't know.

Suspending all disagreements on what's most important / abstract / popular / radical etc.. how do you propose to achieve a truly popular movement without first starting a small one? From small acorns mighty oaks grow (excuse the cliche) - you've got to start somewhere... So if you're bothered about climate change and all the SOCIAL INJUSTICE that goes with it, then this climate camp makes sense.

 

[In Bloom]

Suspending all disagreements on what's most important / abstract / popular / radical etc.. how do you propose to achieve a truly popular movement without first starting a small one? From small acorns mighty oaks grow (excuse the cliche) - you've got to start somewhere... So if you're bothered about climate change and all the SOCIAL INJUSTICE that goes with it, then this climate camp makes sense.

I'm kind of tanked up atm, so I really can't be arsed going into a long explanation, BUT, for a movement to grow it has to be outward looking and address people's concerns. Just focusing on climate change is not enough.