scifisam
deleted
Get out of London and find a venue that will pay you to put on gigs
(they do exist)
True - the situation in London does seem to be different to elsewhere.
Calling experienced promoters
- Thread starter matp
- Start date
True - the situation in London does seem to be different to elsewhere.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
bollocks.
it's harder to get the bands that the london media's creaming themselves over maybe, but there's shit loads of good bands all over the country - I spent year running a festival with 8 stages over 2 days featuring only local bands, and we could have filled the line up 4-5 times over easily each year (newcastle).
actually yeah, thinking about it, it is a media led industry, so yeah running gigs outside the capital is harder if you're wanting to put on bands that are getting in the media - not that you can't get the bands, just the costs are way higher.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
well, not that many that'll pay an untested promoter to organise their music programme for them (unless they're really good looking possibly)Get out of London and find a venue that will pay you to put on gigs
(they do exist
free spirit
more tea vicar?
btw - can you see the anti london media bias chip on my shoulder in post 92... big chip innit
scifisam
deleted
For bands, it seems to be easier to get gigs in London, but easier to get well-paid or well-attended gigs outside London - just not as many of them. There's less competition, not just in terms of bands, but in terms of other things for punters to do that night. ISTM that this does affect how affordable small-to-medium gigs are (and adversely affects how affordable bigger gigs are).
Of course there are tons and tons of good bands all over the country, but a promoter in Camden will have more to choose from than a promoter in a smaller town.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
Istm?
clandestino
no llevar papel
i suppose that means?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
ah, could be... I thought I was down with the kids as well... nearly time for my pipe and slippers then I guess.
anyway, I dunno about bands, i see the local carling academy regularly selling out for bands I've never heard of, but it's mainly 14-18 year old emo's so I don't think I'm missing much... so yeah i guess if you're a London band that's been rimming the nme (or whatever) for coverage then yeah it may well pay better to play out at regional academies where the kids believe the hype coz they've never actually seen the band and don't know anyone who has.
actually i guess if you're from london and the promoter can push you as the next big thing or whatever then yeah there are some big gigs going outside of london for london bands, but this is usually with well established promoters who will pick and chose the bands they get to play, and have a decent regular following. It's still at least as tough to make money out of promoting outside of london as it is inside it, probably tougher - trust me on this one, I've done both
clandestino
no llevar papel
So if you pull 30 people:
30 @ £5 = £150
30 @ £4.50 = £135
You get paid £20.
So that's £20 for you and £130 for the promoter, or
£20 and £115 for the promoter.
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who puts on gigs, and he said that, after costs, he works on taking roughly 15% of the door, which seems fair enough to me.
Then again, I was talking to Trev Lostmusic last night, and he said it cost him £180 to hire Gramophone on Thursday. And that it's £130 to hire the Enterprise. I'm surprised it's so much to hire the Enterprise.
Oops, mistake in my post. This was in the email:
Artist income for all shows is derived from the following door split and dependent upon the audience paying to see that individual artist. (At the door everybody will be asked and noted down whom they have come to see).
First 1 to 10 people - all revenue to Big Note to help recoup the shows' running costs.
Next 11 to 19 - £1 per person to the artist
Next 20 and upwards - to be split 50/50 between artist and Big Note.
Guest list - due to door policy changes by the venue there is no free guest list
Artist income for all shows is derived from the following door split and dependent upon the audience paying to see that individual artist. (At the door everybody will be asked and noted down whom they have come to see).
First 1 to 10 people - all revenue to Big Note to help recoup the shows' running costs.
Next 11 to 19 - £1 per person to the artist
Next 20 and upwards - to be split 50/50 between artist and Big Note.
Guest list - due to door policy changes by the venue there is no free guest list
Still, looking at the numbers, it's not great. I've got a pretty well-paid full-time job, so I'm not too fussed about the money. I'm still just chuffed at playing a decent venue (Hope&Anchor) for my first gig 
When we've played a couple more gigs, and got our sound sorted, we'll probably record an album and then start to whore ourselves to the better promoters.
When we've played a couple more gigs, and got our sound sorted, we'll probably record an album and then start to whore ourselves to the better promoters.
i dont mind playing for free if it's a good night and you can get yr friends in for free (or at least cheap), what is bad is when there's 4 random bands, the night hasn't been advertised at all (cos it's assumed the bands will bring everyone), and all yr friends have to pay £5 to come in. and IF you get paid it doesn't even cover getting there. not having some kind of guest list is a bit counterproductive i think cos it's far easier for bands to get a big crowd if they can offer a few freebies.
ha yeah right i bet the venue told the promoter "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LET ANYONE IN FOR FREE"
clandestino
no llevar papel
I'm still just chuffed at playing a decent venue (Hope&Anchor) for my first gig
.
I'm afraid that's what these promoters are relying on. Stick four new bands together, without a care if the styles match, and rake in the cash. New bands always draw loads of people for their first few gigs, so they're on a guaranteed winner.
I understand that a gig's a gig and you're just itching to play and you'll get some better gigs later on, but the only way to put these sharks out of business is to refuse to play their shitty shows. That said, at least you get £35 for 30 people with that deal - better than the nothing offered by Bugbear!
Makes you wonder how much the H&A are charging the promoters...
clandestino
no llevar papel
I know! Poor lamb!
Still, it's a well known fact that people let in for free only spend money at the bar - and venue owners hate that!
I think it's fair enough to be strict with guest lists, but don't try and shift the blame. Just say it's your decision.
clandestino
no llevar papel
One other thing to consider:
I may be a total music snob, but I'm definitely not the only music snob in the music industry and not the only person to think this way. If I see that a band is just playing shows at the Hope & Anchor and Dublin Castle, I think - losers. They're a shit band who can't get a proper show with a decent promoter.
Might be worth bearing in mind.
If I was in a band, I wouldn't lower myself.
I may be a total music snob, but I'm definitely not the only music snob in the music industry and not the only person to think this way. If I see that a band is just playing shows at the Hope & Anchor and Dublin Castle, I think - losers. They're a shit band who can't get a proper show with a decent promoter.
Might be worth bearing in mind.
If I was in a band, I wouldn't lower myself.
Yeah, you're right. Especially noticable because of the request to not play any gigs for 2 weeks in London.
We needed a gig at short notice to get our arses into gear, and get our songs together. It's worked so far. We've got from having 3 relatively tight songs two weeks ago, to having 3 really tight songs, and another 4 songs that are almost there.
That list of promoters on the HDIF site looks like a great start, but we're a bit heavier than the genres described there. We're more Queens of the Stoneage than British Sea Power
clandestino
no llevar papel
Cool. It's worth doing a show like that just to get some experience. Have fun! And let us know how you get on...!
clandestino
no llevar papel
As I said before, the deal isn't that horrific - they're probably the best of those type of promoters.
scifisam
deleted
It's the standard deal. The promoter doesn't even necessarily make any money, after venue hire and/or paying the sound guy (and, often, door staff - required by some venues). Or perhaps that week they will make money, but the week after they won't - even if they advertise widely, have good bands and a decent venue.
A friend of mine runs a night in Central London where she does make sure the bands are of a similar sound and does organise everything well, and she still struggles to break even; she only does it because she likes to get good bands on at a decent venue. She also only pays after ten people; if she didn't, she'd be out of pocket every time.
What do you suggest bands do, then? Serious question. How will they get the big gigs without playing small gigs first?
scifisam
deleted
That list of promoters on the HDIF site looks like a great start, but we're a bit heavier than the genres described there. We're more Queens of the Stoneage than British Sea Power
Same for us. Maybe they're flexible, though. It is a good list.
clandestino
no llevar papel
Play small gigs, just for promoters who don't bean count. Asking people who they've come to see is a joyless way to run shows. Put bands on because you like them then split the profits equally.
This only works if bands care as much as the promoters of course. If you get a band that doesn't put in any work, doesn't pull a crowd, and leaves before the other bands play, then the system falls apart - it's up to the promoter not to book bands like that. Or at least not book them twice.
clandestino
no llevar papel
I'd love to add more promoters to the list. It's indiepop-centric at the moment, just because that's the field I'm in. But I'd like to add decent promoters that work with noiser bands too.
clandestino
no llevar papel
Tell you what guys, if you're both in similar bands and are looking for a promoter, why don't you join forces and put on a show together?
scifisam
deleted
Maybe - but I think you may be underestimating how much that would cost to do.
BTW, I'll ask my GF later which promoters we've used who don't do the ten-people-or-no-pay thing and were good promoters, and let you know who they are.
When we first started out, we had an excellent promoter who paid really well, partly because he did the sound and door himself (or we'd help do the door sometimes), but he got falsely accused of a crime, spent several months on remand in prison where the other prisoners enjoyed punishing him for his 'crime,' and has never recovered.
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
Not to sound flippant or anything but just get on with the music instead of worrying about promoters and the trend-obessed UK music industry.
After that, some decent networking. Go to gigs where there are bands similar to you but maybe just at (i hate the following phrase) the next level. Give them a demo. Write them a note on myspace of fuckbook. Get seen but of course strike the fine balance between enthusiasm and stalking or in other words just be nice - most people are but remember most people are pretty busy.
Other things are
- rehearse where other good bands rehearse
- let promoters know that even at a drop of a hat you could pull a few mates along to a short notice gig. These things can either be a total waste of time playing to no one or you find that there is in fact a decent crowd there and you get a good gig. Just pot luck.
scifisam
deleted
I do both. I don't do much of the latter, though - just for this thread, really.
My GF (the singer) does tons and tons of that - like I said, I can't do much myself due to childcare.
We rehearse at Enterprise in Tottenham Court Rd. How do you find out where successful bands rehearse?
We do do that, too, and have had a couple of good gigs out of it - we're a pretty reliable band.
To be honest, I've pretty much given up on ever getting proper success. We are good, we are nice, we do network, we have a decently-recorded EP, but it's not enough. I also know tons of other bands and singers who are in the same position, and some of them are astoundingly good. You just have to think of it as a hobby, albeit one that costs lots and takes up tons of time!
Course, that's easier for me to accept than for my GF, who writes the songs and puts everything into it and has always wanted to be a musician.
I do both. I don't do much of the latter, though - just for this thread, really.
My GF (the singer) does tons and tons of that - like I said, I can't do much myself due to childcare.
We rehearse at Enterprise in Tottenham Court Rd. How do you find out where successful bands rehearse?
We do do that, too, and have had a couple of good gigs out of it - we're a pretty reliable band.
To be honest, I've pretty much given up on ever getting proper success. We are good, we are nice, we do network, we have a decently-recorded EP, but it's not enough. I also know tons of other bands and singers who are in the same position, and some of them are astoundingly good. You just have to think of it as a hobby, albeit one that costs lots and takes up tons of time!
Course, that's easier for me to accept than for my GF, who writes the songs and puts everything into it and has always wanted to be a musician.
Our studios in London Bridge are brilliant for that. Quite a few famous bands play in them. PM me for details.
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