C4 - The Human Canvas - Tues, 14th March, 11.05pm

[bluestreak]

i watchd about five minutes of the program then switched off. there was nothing i saw when i watched it that i hadn't already seen or done many times. should i have stayed and watched more?

 

[Dubversion]

ive got nothing against people doing anything they want. id just like to have a better understanding of it.

i'm afraid i don't think anyone's going to hand it to you on a plate.

 

[zenie]

should i have stayed and watched more?

Yes some of what I saw I hadn't seen all of those particular artists's perform so it was interesting for me.

I was wondering what you meant by this, zenie? There weren't many people claiming a spiritual kudos to what they did last night, which in my opinion is a good thing as it's a comment rarely backed up with any meaningful explanation. Is it just another way of saying it's exhilarating as Alice and her partner clearly found?

Not really exhilirating - it brings a kind of release I suppose.

Thinking back when I did it (which was about 7/8 years ago) I probably wasnt in the right head space - and to be quite frank I wonder whether to me that was self harming without the scars (Although i wouldnt ever say I was a self-harmer?? Terribly confusing)

I do remember it being 'spiritual' to me but I guess you can think of that what you will - it means different things to all of us.

The blood lettng I did was like Franko B with one of those taps rather than the woman with the jars all over her.

 

[bluestreak]

heh, i've just read the review and realised that samppa who was on the telly last night is the same guy i've been talking to about doing a suspension with. blimey.

 

[zenie]

heh, i've just read the review and realised that samppa who was on the telly last night is the same guy i've been talking to about doing a suspension with. blimey.

Eeeek you gonna do one??

Tell me when I wanna watch ;cool:

</voyeur>

 

[thefuse]

i'm afraid i don't think anyone's going to hand it to you on a plate.

oh well
dont think i'll be losing any sleep over it

 

[zenie]

oh well
dont think i'll be losing any sleep over it

Not sure if I should bother explaining it do you?

 

[thefuse]

Not sure if I should bother explaining it do you?

i honestly dont mind
im just a bit curious but i can live quite happily without knowing.
i know for a fact that anything you say wont make me suddenly want
to do it because im scared to death of having injections these days.

 

[Pieface]

ive got nothing against people doing anything they want. id just like to have a better understanding of it.

Well I knew next to nothing about it and found that programme very helpful in explaining the myriad reasons why people would do it - some were easier for me to understand than others.

They want to push themselves (the suspensions mentioned this and the scarification girl)
Experience something "extreme" - get a high - however pretentious that sounds (the suspensions again)
Make the viewer rethink their/society's relationship with their own body (all of the programme!)
Make the viewer rethink their/society's relationship with surgery (french woman, the ear carving, appropriation of medical paraphernalia)
Provoke a reaction - especially in the uninitiated (the cafe section)
Do some shit body popping while showing a room of people your sphincter (that American guy)
Exhibitionism - I would say that was part of it of course since it's done as a performance or as decoration to be on show.

And so on. I really think that it gave you a lot of opportunities to understand a tiny part of why folk would do it.

 

[Alf Klein]

I'm not particularly squeemish but I couldn't watch much of that.

Is it leagl to cut bits off people in this country if you are not a registered doctor?

 

[zenie]

Is it leagl to cut bits off people in this country if you are not a registered doctor?

Well i think it is you see if they have your permission.

I think it's something that maybe should be looked into being much more regulated.

All the body piercers I've met and the one body modification bloke have been exceptionally clean.

 

[thefuse]

Well I knew next to nothing about it and found that programme very helpful in explaining the myriad reasons why people would do it - some were easier for me to understand than others.

yea youre right
i must have missed it because i was hiding behind the settee

 

[*Miss Daisy*]

Horses for Courses and all that,
but fuck me,, I just cant get my head around it,,
i am not a lover of pain,, but there is peeps who obviously are,,
I found the programme rather mind blowing,, and all i could think was why?

and please dont flame me but, do these people get a sexual buzz from the pain, or is it simply for the artistic stuff,, coz i dont know,,
i was watching through my hands last night,,

 

[zenie]

and please dont flame me but, do these people get a sexual buzz from the pain, or is it simply for the artistic stuff,, coz i dont know,,
i was watching through my hands last night,,

yeh some of them do

Think there was quite a lot of BDSM going on with those cyborgs and they were at the torture garden which is a fetish night.

 

[*Miss Daisy*]

think i'm a wimp,,

i couldnt not watch it tho,, it was fasinating, yet ewwwwww

 

[Dope!]

i watched the programme with interest, but was left unclear as to any worthwhile artistic statement to be made.
i agree with the critic on the gaurdian website, in that body mods etc have more to do with some sort of personal satisfaction than art.
alice et al, clearly had artistic pretentions but with little to back it up, case in point 'extreme knitting', the meaning was never disclosed but she was adament that it wasnt pro-feminist. ive ckecked out her website, dont rate her photography particularly highly either.

 

[Dope!]

P.S if any of you that feel strongly that sceptisism is patronising, please explain the artist merit of mutilation to me

 

[bluestreak]

Eeeek you gonna do one??

Tell me when I wanna watch ;cool:

</voyeur>

dunno yet, i've always fancied the idea jsut to see if i can really. friend of a friend recommended samppa for suspensions so i emailed him and he's said why dont' i come along sometime and see how i feel. not really got any further than that.

 

[pianistenvy]

People do it for all sorts of reasons - ceremonial, rites of passage, proof of the meditative state they induce in themselves, adrenaline/endorphin rush, shock, spectacle, pushing the limits of acceptability/art/possibility. I find it a bit hard to watch, but really interesting.

 

[bluestreak]

P.S if any of you that feel strongly that sceptisism is patronising, please explain the artist merit of mutilation to me

artistic merit is an extremely subjective thing, no?

if you've already decided that it doesn't meet your standards of merit then i doubt anyone can change your mind.

my opinion pretty much matches PieEye's to be honest. some is art, some is showing off, etc etc.

 

[Pieface]

Well i think it is you see if they have your permission.

I think it's something that maybe should be looked into being much more regulated.

All the body piercers I've met and the one body modification bloke have been exceptionally clean.

According to the programme, that's getting conflicted now procedures are getting more "invasive". Remember that doctor who was going round policing it and campaigning to have certain things banned? It is doing cosmetic surgery basically without any real anaesthetic - but it sounded like he had some sort of aesthetic problem with it to me.

It depends if you think people should be able to do it under anaesthetic and if you don't, what is the difference between that and any other cosmetic surgery where you can go under/get powerful locals to modify yourself. Boils down to perceived ideas of beauty and socially accepted modification - a bag of silicone or a cock-ring?

I want to go and see some of this stuff - it's got me kind of fascinated....

 

[Dubversion]

Well i think it is you see if they have your permission.

i'd be surprised, in the light of the Spanner case and the insane fallout from all that

 

[Alf Klein]

Well i think it is you see if they have your permission.

I think it's something that maybe should be looked into being much more regulated.

All the body piercers I've met and the one body modification bloke have been exceptionally clean.

At what point does consent become irrelevant though? E.g euthanasia is illegal, ear piercing is legal.


Do you mean literally clean, use of sterile equipment etc., or not grabbing unsuspecting poeple off the street and piercing their eyebrows?

 

[Moggy]

Doh, only just saw this thread and i missed it

Anyone know if it's being repeated?

 

[rubbershoes]

Is it legal to cut bits off people in this country if you are not a registered doctor?

Well i think it is you see if they have your permission.

what about spanner? was that ever overturned or are the police more liberal now. or maybe they don't they care if no one's getting their rocks off

 

[Alf Klein]

i'd be surprised, in the light of the Spanner case and the insane fallout from all that

Spanner?

 

[Alf Klein]

It depends if you think people should be able to do it under anaesthetic and if you don't, what is the difference between that and any other cosmetic surgery where you can go under/get powerful locals to modify yourself. Boils down to perceived ideas of beauty and socially accepted modification - a bag of silicone or a cock-ring?

Good point

I want to go and see some of this stuff

I'll leave you too it

 

[rubbershoes]

Spanner?

80s legal case . a group of gay S & M guys filmed their fun and got prosecuted for asaault, despite the consent of everyone concerned

 

[Balbi]

see also Crown & Brown...

http://www.lawteacher.net/Criminal/Non Fatal Assaults/Consent R v Brown.htm

 

[rubbershoes]

that's the one