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Bye Bye Berlusconi

guinnessdrinker said:
apparently, because of the proportional system, there could in theory be the exact number of seats in both houses for both side and because of the nature of the system (they have equal legislative system, if I remember this morning indy correctly), this could create chaos....
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I think the new legislation says that the 'winners' under the PR system automatically get 55% of the seats in the lower chamber, which is why the different parties have formed blocs.
 
nick1181 said:
Why is it that so many elections these days are too close to call?

There' have been about six of them since the US one - it's like every population in the west has this near exact 50 50 split between progressives and conservatives.
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Because the voters are actually split 50/50 ? ;)
 
TAE said:
Because the voters are actually split 50/50 ? ;)
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well, certainly in Italy 47M people voted, 99.5% voted for one of the 2 main registered blocs, and Prodi looks to have won it by 25,000..... sounds close to a dead heat to me.
 
ALLIANCE DE CENTRE-DROITE (Silvio Berlusconi)

Forza Italia : 9 045 384 votes, 23,709 %, 137 seats
Alliance nationale : 4 706 654, 12,336 % 71
UDC : 2 579 951, 6,722 %, 39
Ligue du Nord : 1 748 066 4,581% 26
Liste Mussolini (!) : 255 410, 0,669 %, 0
Flamme tricolore : 231 313, 0,606 %, 0
Nouveaux démocrates-chrétiens : 258 744, 0,748 %, 4

Total for the right : 18 976 460 voix, 49,739 %, 277 seats


ALLIANCE DE CENTRE-GAUCHE (Romano Prodi)

L'Olivier : 11 928 362, 31,265 %, 220
Refondation communiste : 2 229 604, 5,844 %, 41
Union des démocrates européens : 534 533, 1,401 %, 10
Communistes italiens : 884 912, 2,319 %, 16
Verts (greens) : 783 944, 2,054 %, 15
Parti du peuple sud-tyrolien (regionalist) : 182 703, 0,478 %, 4
Italie des valeurs : 877 159, 2,299 %, 16
Rose au poing (zapateroist/ blairist): 991 049, 2,597 %, 18

Total for the left : 19 001 684 voix, 49,805 %, 340 seats


So the communists seem to have gotten 8.2% of the vote.
 
let's hope that things in italy get a bit better now. i doubt it though. still any shift to the left is an improvement.
 
bluestreak said:
let's hope that things in italy get a bit better now. i doubt it though. still any shift to the left is an improvement.
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Prodi's coalition is so wide though (from Christian Democrats to Greens to Communists) that its dfficult to see them getting much done.

At least Berlusconi has gone though.
 
Belushi said:
Prodi's coalition is so wide though (from Christian Democrats to Greens to Communists) that its dfficult to see them getting much done.

At least Berlusconi has gone though.
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There's going to be an awful lot of horse-trading going on...but the CDs on the same side as the centre left? Wtf???? :eek:
 
Here are links to the results pages of La Repubblica. House of Deputies and Senate


Summary below for the House



Partiti Voti% Seggi




L'Ulivo 11.928.362 31,3 220
Rifondazione Comunista 2.229.604 5,8 41
La Rosa nel Pugno 991.049 2,6 18
Comunisti Italiani 884.912 2,3 16
Di Pietro Italia dei Valori 877.159 2,3 16
Verdi 783.944 2,1 15
Udeur Popolari 534.553 1,4 10
Partito Pensionati 333.983 0,9 -
Svp 182.703 0,5 4
Socialisti Craxi 115.105 0,3 -
Lista Consumatori 73.720 0,2 -
Alleanza lombarda 44.580 0,1 -
Liga Fronte Veneto 22.010 0,1 -
Totale Unione - Prodi 19.001.684 49,8 340


Forza Italia 9.045.384 23,7 137
Alleanza Nazionale 4.706.654 12,3 71
Udc 2.579.951 6,8 39
Lega Nord 1.748.066 4,6 26
Dc-Nuovo Psi 285.744 0,7 4
Alter. Soc. Mussolini 255.410 0,7 -
Fiamma Tricolore 231.313 0,6 -
No euro 58.757 0,2 -
Pensionati uniti 28.317 0,1 -
Ambienta-lista 17.574 0,0 -
Partito Liberale Italiano 12.334 0,0 -
Sos Italia 6.956 0,0 -
Totale CDL - Berlusconi 18.976.460 49,7 277
Totale Altri 173.263 0,4 -


Senate

Partiti Voti % Seggi
L'Ulivo 11.928.362 31,3 220
Rifondazione Comunista 2.229.604 5,8 41
La Rosa nel Pugno 991.049 2,6 18
Comunisti Italiani 884.912 2,3 16
Di Pietro Italia dei Valori 877.159 2,3 16
Verdi 783.944 2,1 15
Udeur Popolari 534.553 1,4 10
Partito Pensionati 333.983 0,9 -
Svp 182.703 0,5 4
Socialisti Craxi 115.105 0,3 -
Lista Consumatori 73.720 0,2 -
Alleanza lombarda 44.580 0,1 -
Liga Fronte Veneto 22.010 0,1 -
Totale Unione - Prodi 19.001.684 49,8 340


Forza Italia 9.045.384 23,7 137
Alleanza Nazionale 4.706.654 12,3 71
Udc 2.579.951 6,8 39
Lega Nord 1.748.066 4,6 26
Dc-Nuovo Psi 285.744 0,7 4
Alter. Soc. Mussolini 255.410 0,7 -
Fiamma Tricolore 231.313 0,6 -
No euro 58.757 0,2 -
Pensionati uniti 28.317 0,1 -
Ambienta-lista 17.574 0,0 -
Partito Liberale Italiano 12.334 0,0 -
Sos Italia 6.956 0,0 -
Totale CDL - Berlusconi 18.976.460 49,7 277
Totale Altri 173.263 0,4 -
Dal riepilogo è esclusa la Valle d'Aosta (un deputato)
 
Some odd results however. The anti-Southerner Lega Nord won three seats in Sicilly in the HHouse of Deputies and one in the Senate.

Also in Scicilly today the police suddenly managed to find Bernado "The tractor" Provenzano head of the Mafia on the run since the sixties. Found in traditional Mafia fashion in a farmhouse just outside his hometown of Corleone. I wonsder if he'd been found if Silvio and his friends had won all the seats in Sicilly like they managed to do last time.
 
tim said:
Some odd results however. The anti-Southerner Lega Nord won three seats in Sicilly in the HHouse of Deputies and one in the Senate.

Also in Scicilly today the police suddenly managed to find Bernado "The tractor" Provenzano head of the Mafia on the run since the sixties. Found in traditional Mafia fashion in a farmhouse just outside his hometown of Corleone. I wonsder if he'd been found if Silvio and his friends had won all the seats in Sicilly like they managed to do last time.
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And what an irony that he was captured in Corleone of all places.
 
tim said:
Toto Riina "The breast", the last big Mafia cheese was also of course found in that town of great repute.
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The breast.. :rolleyes: He was The Beast :eek:

Anyway.. everyone is awaiting the count from the Italian expats to be taken into consideration before we know final outcome.. officially that is.. should know tomorrow..
 
tim said:
Some odd results however. The anti-Southerner Lega Nord won three seats in Sicilly in the HHouse of Deputies and one in the Senate.

Also in Scicilly today the police suddenly managed to find Bernado "The tractor" Provenzano head of the Mafia on the run since the sixties. Found in traditional Mafia fashion in a farmhouse just outside his hometown of Corleone. I wonsder if he'd been found if Silvio and his friends had won all the seats in Sicilly like they managed to do last time.
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what a strange timing....
 
you could argue that the arrest coming at this time depoliticises the matter- its not an arrest under the watch of berlusconi or prodi.

don't know enough of the situation to be able to read any more into that possibility though :confused:
 
So what's the crack? The centre left have won a majority of seats in the Chamber of Deputies and have a two seat advantage in the Senate. What's the problem...other than Berlusconi crying foul (as was expected)?
 
apparently the laws Berlusconi introduced to help him keep power have in fact been his undoing. shame, shame, shame.
 
tim said:
Here are links to the results pages of La Repubblica. House of Deputies and Senate


Summary below for the House



Partiti Voti% Seggi




L'Ulivo 11.928.362 31,3 220
Rifondazione Comunista 2.229.604 5,8 41
La Rosa nel Pugno 991.049 2,6 18
Comunisti Italiani 884.912 2,3 16
Di Pietro Italia dei Valori 877.159 2,3 16
Verdi 783.944 2,1 15
Udeur Popolari 534.553 1,4 10
Partito Pensionati 333.983 0,9 -
Svp 182.703 0,5 4
Socialisti Craxi 115.105 0,3 -
Lista Consumatori 73.720 0,2 -
Alleanza lombarda 44.580 0,1 -
Liga Fronte Veneto 22.010 0,1 -
Totale Unione - Prodi 19.001.684 49,8 340


Forza Italia 9.045.384 23,7 137
Alleanza Nazionale 4.706.654 12,3 71
Udc 2.579.951 6,8 39
Lega Nord 1.748.066 4,6 26
Dc-Nuovo Psi 285.744 0,7 4
Alter. Soc. Mussolini 255.410 0,7 -
Fiamma Tricolore 231.313 0,6 -
No euro 58.757 0,2 -
Pensionati uniti 28.317 0,1 -
Ambienta-lista 17.574 0,0 -
Partito Liberale Italiano 12.334 0,0 -
Sos Italia 6.956 0,0 -
Totale CDL - Berlusconi 18.976.460 49,7 277
Totale Altri 173.263 0,4 -


Senate

Partiti Voti % Seggi
L'Ulivo 11.928.362 31,3 220
Rifondazione Comunista 2.229.604 5,8 41
La Rosa nel Pugno 991.049 2,6 18
Comunisti Italiani 884.912 2,3 16
Di Pietro Italia dei Valori 877.159 2,3 16
Verdi 783.944 2,1 15
Udeur Popolari 534.553 1,4 10
Partito Pensionati 333.983 0,9 -
Svp 182.703 0,5 4
Socialisti Craxi 115.105 0,3 -
Lista Consumatori 73.720 0,2 -
Alleanza lombarda 44.580 0,1 -
Liga Fronte Veneto 22.010 0,1 -
Totale Unione - Prodi 19.001.684 49,8 340


Forza Italia 9.045.384 23,7 137
Alleanza Nazionale 4.706.654 12,3 71
Udc 2.579.951 6,8 39
Lega Nord 1.748.066 4,6 26
Dc-Nuovo Psi 285.744 0,7 4
Alter. Soc. Mussolini 255.410 0,7 -
Fiamma Tricolore 231.313 0,6 -
No euro 58.757 0,2 -
Pensionati uniti 28.317 0,1 -
Ambienta-lista 17.574 0,0 -
Partito Liberale Italiano 12.334 0,0 -
Sos Italia 6.956 0,0 -
Totale CDL - Berlusconi 18.976.460 49,7 277
Totale Altri 173.263 0,4 -
Dal riepilogo è esclusa la Valle d'Aosta (un deputato)
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The Senate votes are wrong here - you've posted a repeat of the Chamber of Deputies voting. The full senate results are in english on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia...nato_della_Repubblica.22.29_.28Upper_house.29

The PRC got 7.37% in the Senate election compared to 5.84% in the Chamber of Deputies. I suspect that it was because they were only list in the the senate election with the word Communist in their name. The Party of Italian Communists, which was the pro-Olive Tree split from the PRC, only stood on its own for the Chamber and got 2.32%. For the Senate, they stood in a joint slate with the Greens and got 4%, compared to 2% for the Greens alone in the Chamber. The congress of the PRC voted to join the Olive Tree-led coalition (against the left wing opposition) so there is no real basis for the split any more ... Olive Tree stood as a united list for the Chamber, but as its individual components for the Senate ... Still with me? Italian politics is so wacky!
 
Silvio Berlusconi alleges 'much fraud' in Italian elections.

No shit there's fraud in the elections, now it's down to who carry's the can for it :rolleyes: and if it can be proven that Berlu...sorry... I meant, someone could be responsible.

Italy is facing weeks of political uncertainty, with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi refusing to accept Romano Prodi's election victory.

The prime minister has insisted on waiting until some 43,000 contested ballot papers have been re-examined.

He said on Wednesday the elections had been marred by "much fraud" and said the result "has to change".
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bizarre goings on in the Italy

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article357786.ece

The Italian interior ministry's acknowledgement that the number of ballots in question for the lower house of parliament was not near enough to overturn his rival Romano Prodi's 24,000-vote majority discredited Mr Berlusconi's claim that he lost to Mr Prodi through "cheating".

The announcement was made in a statement just hours after La Repubblica newspaper reported that Mr Berlusconi had ordered the interior minister, Giuseppe Pisanu, to annul the election hours after balloting ended but that Mr Pisanu had refused.

--Was the public showboating or a private order?



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060412.ITALY12/TPStory/TP
Italian Canadian voters pivotal in electing Prodi

The votes of 40,000 Canadian citizens who qualify as "Italians abroad," some of whom have never set foot in Italy and many of whom don't speak Italian, played a pivotal role in the defeat of billionaire Silvio Berlusconi in Italy's election yesterday, according to poll results released late last night.

He was especially critical of the voting of "Italians abroad," who elected 12 seats in Italy's lower house and six seats in the senate. Four of those six seats went to Mr. Prodi's coalition, and a fifth, independent South American victor announced that he would also back Mr. Prodi.

That means that the "Italians abroad" determined the government, since Mr. Prodi's coalition won control of the Senate by only two seats, a margin of 158 seats to 156. Mr. Berlusconi's anger and scrutiny is now focused tightly on these votes, especially in the riding that represents North and Central America, in which Canadian votes proved decisive.

WTF? again but it looks like a specific move to gain more votes backfired.

and

The dispute over who won Italy's general election took a new twist on Saturday when an ally of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said he had found a mistake in the tally that would reverse the ruling coalition's defeat. The centre-left opposition alliance, which claimed victory four days ago in the April 9-10 vote, dismissed the assertion by Roberto Calderoli, a former reforms minister.

Its leader, Romano Prodi, said Berlusconi should apologise to the nation and finally admit he lost the closest election in modern Italian history, whose outcome awaits a court ruling. Berlusconi's best hope of overturning Prodi's 25,224-vote advantage in the lower house of parliament appeared to have vanished on Friday when the interior ministry said there were not enough disputed ballots to change the election outcome.

The prime minister, who is also Italy's richest man, has alleged widespread irregularities. On Saturday Calderoli, a member of the Northern League party, reignited debate by saying he had discovered a batch of 45,580 votes he said were picked up illegally by a centre-left political party, the Lega Alleanza Lombarda.

"If somebody is thinking about heading down to the square to celebrate with this vote tally the way it is, that would be like a coup," said Calderoli, adding he made a formal complaint to election authorities.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=577542006

although Prodi has done deals with the corporate devils to get in even if they riring of Mr B
 
Does anyone else find it ironic that Berlusconi is alleging electoral fraud when he's one the world's biggest and richest crooks? :D
 
Expect howling and gnashing of teeth from Rupert Murdoch over Prodi's election.

I noticed the Sun last week was running a headline saying that 'prodi the euro monster has returned' and implying that it will not be good for Britain.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Expect howling and gnashing of teeth from Rupert Murdoch over Prodi's election.

I noticed the Sun last week was running a headline saying that 'prodi the euro monster has returned' and implying that it will not be good for Britain.
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Yes, but there is a strong possibility that there will be some of Mr B's TV channels comming onto the market very soon.
 
unfortunately that headline looks a bit premature

he's refusing to go.

is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that had this saga taken place in a non-European, non-"western" country, we'd practically see troops moving in?
 
frogwoman said:
unfortunately that headline looks a bit premature

he's refusing to go.

is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that had this saga taken place in a non-European, non-"western" country, we'd practically see troops moving in?
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Ted Heath refused to go for four days in Feb/March 1974 while he desperately tried to get a coalition with the Ulster Unionists and Liberals ... the Tories had won the largest number of votes in a hung parliament but Labour had four more seats.

Not as long as this saga, though ... but they do say a week is a long time in politics. Maybe in Italian politics it stretches to a fortnight?
 
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