Bush makes veiled threats over Iran

[ViolentPanda]

Stalin took half of Germany and held onto it.

If the allies hadn't advanced as far as they did, do you honestly think that Stalin would not have held onto whatever excess territory he could have grabbed?

I think that the furthest Stalin would have gone would have been Germany's pre-war (but possibly not pre-anschluss) western borders, something he could have legitimately done in time of war. As it was he was happy with the part of Germany that came under his power. He already had Poland, and the eastern half of Germany consolidated the Soviet grip on the coal and steel reserves of both countries as well as most of Germany's heavy industry (Check out a geological map of that part of Europe).

You appear to believe Stalin would have taken territory purely for the sake of it, but given the manpower cost of "policing" those parts that they held, not to mention Stalin's record of cannyness in terms of getting what he wanted, I don't believe he would have pushed beyong Germany's borders. He had no need and arguably already had what was most valuable to him (especially given the amount of German technology infrastructure and access to trained personnel the Soviet Union was able to garner as part of their "war reparations".

 

[DialT0ne]

what the f. bush is a nut case and needs to have some sense put into him. its probably cuz of all the vacationing

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think that the furthest Stalin would have gone would have been Germany's pre-war (but possibly not pre-anschluss) western borders, something he could have legitimately done in time of war. As it was he was happy with the part of Germany that came under his power. He already had Poland, and the eastern half of Germany consolidated the Soviet grip on the coal and steel reserves of both countries as well as most of Germany's heavy industry (Check out a geological map of that part of Europe).

You appear to believe Stalin would have taken territory purely for the sake of it, but given the manpower cost of "policing" those parts that they held, not to mention Stalin's record of cannyness in terms of getting what he wanted, I don't believe he would have pushed beyong Germany's borders. He had no need and arguably already had what was most valuable to him (especially given the amount of German technology infrastructure and access to trained personnel the Soviet Union was able to garner as part of their "war reparations".

You don't think he would have taken Vichy France, given the opportunity? His claim to that during wartime would have been as valid as the claim to germany or the eastern bloc countries he occupied.

 

[Sorry.]

You don't think he would have taken Vichy France, given the opportunity? His claim to that during wartime would have been as valid as the claim to germany or the eastern bloc countries he occupied.

Well, arguably the only think that prevented civil war/revolution in post-war Italy was the conciliatory stance of the Italian CP (which in part was adopted at Soviet prompting)

 

[sihhi]

Well, arguably the only think that prevented civil war/revolution in post-war Italy was the conciliatory stance of the Italian CP (which in part was adopted at Soviet prompting)

Yep. Same in the case of France- Maurice Thorez came back from Moscow in November 1944 specifically briefed NOT TO cause any trouble whatsoever and agree to accepting De Gaulle's demands in his government of national unity. The order to muzzle PCF types like Andre Marty who disagreed with this course of action and wanted minimum conditions, was also.

The PCF leadership was a key tool in the capitalist restruction of France.
Thorez' speech to miners accused of wildcattery and absenteeism in Waziers in July 1945 is what I have to hand:

"Dear comrades, and I am now talking with full responsibility in the name of the Central Committee, in the name of the decisions taken by the Party Congress: I say quite frankly, it is impossible to sanction the slightest strike, above all if it breaks out outside the trade union and against the trade union, as it did last week in the Bethune mines. Disciplinary measures had to be taken. Out of four foremen, two have been reinstated, although on a lower grade'"

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...1/Tarrant.html+July+1945+Waziers+Thorez&hl=en

 

[nino_savatte]

Wtf has Stalin got to do with anything??????!!!!!!!!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wtf has Stalin got to do with anything??????!!!!!!!!!

Nothing. It's another patented Canuck derail.

You know how it is.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Nothing. It's another patented Canuck derail.

You know how it is.

Imagine: twelve pages and 277 posts later, we'd have the temerity to mention anything outside the box.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Nothing. It's another patented Canuck derail.

You know how it is.

Funny, I thought nino had me on ignore.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Imagine: twelve pages and 277 posts later, we'd have the temerity to mention anything outside the box.

If you waited 12 pages before firing off your gems of irrelevance you wouldn't be quite so well known as a thread-derailer, would you?

 

[phildwyer]

Funny, I thought nino had me on ignore.

He does that to me too. In Ninoland, this counts as an incredibly subtle manouver--I *don't* think.

 

[nino_savatte]

He does that to me too. In Ninoland, this counts as an incredibly subtle manouver--I *don't* think.

Oddly enough, I've taken you *both* off 'ignore'. In your case I have done this so I can take the piss more *effectively*.

What *I* want *to* know *is* why you *feel* the *need* to misuse ******s. Are *you* a *postgraduate* by any chance?

 

[nino_savatte]

Funny, I thought nino had me on ignore.

The 'ignore' function only works with certain posters...consider yourself not only privileged but lucky as well.

 

[nino_savatte]

Imagine: twelve pages and 277 posts later, we'd have the temerity to mention anything outside the box.

I'm only surprised you've not posted up any lyrics. It's about all you're good for.

 

[Streathamite]

Stalin took half of Germany and held onto it.

If the allies hadn't advanced as far as they did, do you honestly think that Stalin would not have held onto whatever excess territory he could have grabbed?

all the documented evidence indicates that Stalin's sole interest in the Warsaw pact states and the DDR was as a buffer against a future resurgent Germany