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Bulldozer attack in Jerusalem

It turns out the driver of the 'dozer was a worker on a tramway system from central Jerusalem to (illegal) jewish settlements around the city.

"According to Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, an occupying power is forbidden from transferring its population to the territory it occupies. The organization explained that under international law this is considered a war crime. The Jerusalem tramway strengthens the infrastructure of the Israeli occupation."

Pressure mounts on companies involved with illegal tramway
 
Spion: Wiki is good for nothing. It has zero value as far as academic research but then you would not be bothered with little things like that. I realise that some, like the bufoons in your article will tell you an Arab is anyone who speaks Arabic. By that token I am Arab. Uh oh, I have been a traitor all these years?

Arabs actually,, in reality as opposed to your mind, are those whose ancestors come from a tiny area of what is now Saudi Arabia. That area? al Hejaz. Do the research Spion, then come back and authouritatively tell me how I dso not know anything. If you can offer your Wiki ay university and pass I will of course bow down to you.

Of course with the Arabs having conquered everything from France to Western China it does become quite cumbersome to sort it out....never the less it is what it is whther or not you can quite stomach it.

Spion: D9s can come both wheeled and tracked. I have worked in heavy construction for much of my adult life. The tracks can everbe interchanged depending on the grade at hand. In fact, in the IDF we use both versions. One would have thought that someone such as yourself, having actually been to my country, would know this since D9s are about the only model we use since they switched from the 3206 engines.


Comparing Israeli citizens who live in E. Jerusalem to Warsaw Ghetto Jews is beneath contempt and I will not civilise it with an adult response. You can wallow all by yourself in that mess.


Geneva IV hgas no application to anything Israeli so try again. No population "transfer" is under way nor has there ever been. In factr, prior to 1948 it was a mainly Jewish neighbourhood until JORDAN, annexed it illegaly and forbade a single Jew from even entering. I find it most ironic that you would label the home to the Western Wall as territory occupied by Jews. You certainly have a singular way of looking at the world, but luckily as I said iti s singular.


Oh, and before you try and quibble again over construction equipment, try researching the partticular model you are arguing over, it can do wonders for one's integrity.
 
Spion: Wiki is good for nothing. It has zero value as far as academic research but then you would not be bothered with little things like that. I realise that some, like the bufoons in your article will tell you an Arab is anyone who speaks Arabic. By that token I am Arab. Uh oh, I have been a traitor all these years?
The wikipedia article is a good representation of the various views of what constitutes an Arab. People being what they are that definition is shifting and contested. I don't expect your ossified mind to understand such a thing tho.

There's a good argument for calling certain jews Jewish Arabs, but then the discourse of Zionism has made sure that those not contradictory descriptions have rarely been conjoined. There are, after all, Christian Arabs too.

A traitor? You're certainly a traitor to humanity, putting the narrow interests of 'your own' particular ethnicity above all others and not caring a damn about the lives of 'the other' that your ideology ruins in the process.
 
Wow, U75's Anti-Semitism Club is in full swing today.

Don your red armband with the, goosestep to the nearest synagogue and petrol bomb it. You'll be rid of those pesky Jews soon.

I hear there's quite a few of them in north London for you and your bovver boot-wearing boys to 'play' with.

You're quite the fuckwit's fuckwit, Kenny.
 
Spion: D9s can come both wheeled and tracked. I have worked in heavy construction for much of my adult life. The tracks can everbe interchanged depending on the grade at hand.
Someone who had 'worked in construction most of their life' would know the vehicle used wasn't actually a bulldozer. I used to edit a contruction equipment magazine and I know the difference between a dozer and a loader. You clearly don't, and if you can get that wrong it's an indication that even basic facts are beyond you.

But, I'm prepared to give you a chance. If you show me a link to a Caterpillar D9 with wheels I'll send £10 to the Retired Zionist War Criminals Benevolent Fund. I can't say fairer than that :D
 
From the news reports I've seen/read, it appears to me that this is not a terrorist attack at all. The only reason it has been called a "terrorist" attack is because the guy was an Arab, but despite the fact that few will agree on an all encompassing definition of terrorism, the vast majority will agree that the actions of a terrorist must be to pursue political aims - this man clearly has no links with any political (terrorist) organisation and seems to have suffered some kind of breakdown in his private life (it would appear because of a failed affair with a Jewish woman - hardly your typical "Jew hater" then!) and went on some kind of Falling Down style rampage.

However, for publicity purposes, the Israelis say he's a terrorist (and will no doubt be pointed to when they break the ceasefire to say "they started it") and even Hamas jumped on the bandwagon to suggest this man had "political" motivations for carrying out what imo seems to be on a par with US mentalists that shoot up schools etc. The PA claimed the man was aiming to wreck the peace process! FFS three Palestinian militant groups claimed responsibility for the attack and now Israel's vice Prime Minister wants his house bulldozing as a punishment (to whom!? the guy's dead!) and East Jerusalem cut off and Israeli ID cards confiscated from all residents!

This is murder. The Israeli authorities are pretty certain the guy was acting alone and has no connections to any militant group (backed up by the complete absence of the usual parades/marches in the guy's neighbourhood). Yet politicians from Israel andPalestine both claim he's a terrorist...

:rolleyes:
 
If you think about all the iniquities of occupation and the day-to-day racism that sustains it it's a surprise more Arabs don't go postal.
 
Someone who had 'worked in construction most of their life' would know the vehicle used wasn't actually a bulldozer. I used to edit a contruction equipment magazine and I know the difference between a dozer and a loader. You clearly don't, and if you can get that wrong it's an indication that even basic facts are beyond you.

But, I'm prepared to give you a chance. If you show me a link to a Caterpillar D9 with wheels I'll send £10 to the Retired Zionist War Criminals Benevolent Fund. I can't say fairer than that :D

My money's on it being a CAT 950E/F, 966G or 966E/F Wheel Loader.

Not a D9.

:)
 
Why is it so important what the vehicle was ?

It was a big yellow 4 wheeled earth mover

enough surely !
 
Weltweit: See, much more than the actual issue , a tragedy where innocents were attacked and killed by an imbalanced monster, the focus of the thread then becomes Rachamim's personality as it too often does.


So sad that such a potentially stimulating Forum can so easily be hijacked by miscreants.

Does it matter if it was a yellow submarine? The VEHICHLE was merely a tool for death. Whatever I described it as (and sorry, but I DO have to add that my description was correct, but at this juncture it should not even really matter) is inconsequential to the poor dejected people mourning the sudden loss of their loved ones and that also goes for the family of the nutter who committed this hoffiric act. He was a youngish father and had a family who loved him. What a shame any way you look at it.


How much shameful is it that people would seek to manipulate the event for partisan nonsense and even more shameful that people on this site would try and use it to denigrate another poster. Alot of shame to go round.
 
It was so important earlier that we got lectures about your massive experience in construction and my supposed lack of integrity. Now you been caught bullshitting we get a load of fake handwringing.

I'll leave it there now we've demonstrated Rachamim's inability to get even basic facts right.
 
Bravo!!! Betting on the machine that killed those innocent people. Absolutely brillant. After your fun and games, you might look into the subject of switching out propulsion systems in ultra heavy equipment and their application, especially, in Israel.

I know you really DO NOT care what it was, that this is just another way to while away your day, but just in case integrity and actual knowledge become phrases of the day they should be looked into and you shall, suprise, find that D9s have wide ranging applications and that we in Israel tend to buy HEAVILY in bulk and that the D9 is the machine of choice.
 
I think I am going to scream again.

Cut it out, all of you. Stick to facts and debate and solutions. People are dead. People are denied infrastructure although they pay taxes. Some guy goes insane and murders. It is all a tragedy. No revenge please - we've seen that only makes things worse.
 
Not content with the idea of possibly demolishing the bulldozer man's family's house they're now talking of cutting off entire areas of E Jerusalem and inhabitants' revoking residency status. It's potentially collective punishment on a massive scale and another example of Israel's capricious treatment of an occupied population. Any other country would have faced sanctions or bombs for this kind of treatment by now

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/998668.html
 
Sigh....Against all effort and much better judgement I allow myself to be sucked right in and voila! Sorry Spion, you are incorrect. I mean, I SHOULD bow both to your extensive subjective knowledge having allegedly visited my nation all of one time, and G-D knows what you do for an occupation,...and me? A Union Excavator specialising in undergound construction when not serving in the IDF where I have personally supervised countless house demolitions utilising D9s...it should then be clear as can be that you of course are much better qualified but still, an aching feeling that you are arguing simply for the sake of arguing is not allowing me to just walk away...

I mean, doing roadwork with a tracked dozer? That is ridiculous but hey, you claim to know the drill so I should just let you work your magic. Yikes...
 
Not content with the idea of possibly demolishing the bulldozer man's family's house they're now talking of cutting off entire areas of E Jerusalem and inhabitants' revoking residency status. It's potentially collective punishment on a massive scale and another example of Israel's capricious treatment of an occupied population. Any other country would have faced sanctions or bombs for this kind of treatment by now

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/998668.html
See! You just don't read my posts!

But yea, it's fucking stupid/immoral/waaay ott

I have no doubt in my mind that this rampage was not the act of someone wanting to martyr himself for a political end. He was not a terrorist, someone who just couldn't handle the stress and flipped out. The equivalent would be for the American government to bulldoze down the houses of the kid that shot up his school and removed the citizenship of all those who lived in his town
 
The family of Natan-Zada was not revoked residency status, nor lost social benefits nor had their house bulldozed. The village of Natan-Zada was not denied services, etc. I am hearing that Israel Arabs have with equal rights to Israel Jews - I am not seeing it.
 
This individual who committed these murders must be treated as an individual - not as someone acting with the consent of an entire people. Did Natan-Zada act with the entire consent of his people? NO! He was a mentally ill person who cracked and became a murderer.

Bulldozing the home of the murderer's family will just continue the cycle that leads to more insane and murderous actions.

Someone must call a stop, and two top statesman calling for vengeance is very frightening -maybe they are mentally ill too?
 
See! You just don't read my posts!

But yea, it's fucking stupid/immoral/waaay ott

I have no doubt in my mind that this rampage was not the act of someone wanting to martyr himself for a political end. He was not a terrorist,...
Sorry I disagree, he certainly was a terrorist.

Or as some would call it a freedom fighter.

We can't deny the circumstances, don't deny the point of view.

However I'm sure the Israelis can handle the whole thing...after all they have so much experience in defusing shit...in making things better. (The Israelis have by far the superior firepower, the obligation rests upon them.)

(not sure the word sarcasm appears in the old testament, if it does it was probably gollowed by a fucking massacre...this post may be wasted)
 
Sorry I disagree, he certainly was a terrorist.

Or as some would call it a freedom fighter.

We can't deny the circumstances, don't deny the point of view.
He was a terrorist as far as he was Palestinian and killed some people in Jerusalem...however, if you read the profiles of him on the news it does seem that he had no affiliation to any group (the police say he was acting alone) and there were no "martyr's celebrations" where he lived. Stories from his personal life suggest he was going through some kind of breakdown and imo it looks like he took his problems out on society like many people the world over do...
 
There were no murder charges for those who beat Jewish terrorist Eden Natan-Zada to death. He was regarded as mentally ill, was a settler, and had been in touch with the outlawed Kach movement. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/992889.html

I do not think that the Arab Israeli terrorist who bulldozed those people in Jerusalem will be called mentally ill though.

SCRUB THAT.!!


It was said there would be no charges, but this has not been the case - there has been a media blackout a suspects (of lynching Natan-Zada to death following his murder of several on a bus) have been arrested.

Last update - 04:38 03/04/2008

Police sources: AG's delay in Natan-Zada lynch case due to politics

By Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Israel, Eden Natan-Zada

Police officers in the Northern Region are asking whether the state prosecutor and attorney general's delayed decision on the suspected lynching of Jewish terrorist Eden Natan-Zada is due to a lack of evidence or is political.

On August 4, 2005, Natan-Zada, an IDF deserter, opened fire with his army-issue weapon inside a bus heading toward the Arab town Shfaram from Haifa; he killed four Shfaram residents and wounded 14 others. He may have hoped his actions would set off events that would prevent the Gaza disengagement scheduled for later that summer.

An enraged mob attacked Natan-Zada and killed him. The police opened an investigation into the lynching on suspicions that Natan-Zada might have been killed by the mob after he had already been brought under control, disarmed and handcuffed.

After eight months of investigation - under a court-ordered media blackout - the police announced at a large press conference, alongside representatives of the State Prosecutor's Office, that they had arrested seven suspects from Shfaram who allegedly took part in the lynching and assaulted police officers.

The police thought then that indictments were only a matter of time. The arrests of the seven caused outraged in Shfaram and in the entire Arab community. Demonstrators protested in front of the Haifa Magistrate's Court, and after a week the seven were released to house arrest with a long list of restrictions, as well as significant bail.

The limits on the suspects have been extended a number of times at the prosecution's request, claiming that the investigation is waiting for a decision by Attorney General Menachem Mazuz. At the same time, defense attorneys say the police have no evidence against their clients.

Judge Moshe Alter of the Acre Magistrate's Court lent credence to the defense's claims when he canceled most of the restrictions on the suspects last June, expressing doubt on whether indictments would ever be filed.

In his decision, Alter wrote that the prosecution had been holding hearings on indicting the suspects for three months, and he believed there had been no progress.

A police source in the Northern Region said that the delay was for political reasons: "It is clear that such a decision is likely to incite the Arab sector, in particular after Mazuz's decision to close the investigations against the policemen involved in the October 2000 shootings."


A few days ago, all the restrictions were lifted, and NIS 70,000 in bail was returned. Ahmed Hamdi, a member of the Shfaram council, confirmed the matter.

"The bail money was returned and I hope that this proves our position was correct from the very beginning, and that Shfaram residents were the victims and it is impossible to turn them into murderers and criminals," he said. "Natan-Zada was killed when he massacred innocent citizens." [/b]

Justice Ministry sources said that returning the bail money was a technical matter, and that the file is still being studied in the attorney general's office. They said a decision will be publicized when it is made.

Tomer Zarchin contributed to this report.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/971400.html

That was April.

In June,
5/06/2008
No murder charges for suspects in lynch of Jewish terrorist
By Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondent and Haaretz Service

The 12 suspects in the death of Jewish terrorist Eden Natan-Zada, who was lynched by an Israeli Arab mob in 2005 will be charged with violent assault rather than murder, it emerged on Sunday.

AWOL Israel Defense Forces soldier Natan-Zada, 19, was killed after murdering four Israeli Arabs on a bus in the northern town of Shfaram in August 2005, days before Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

The suspects were instructed Sunday to appear at a court hearing on July 13, where they will be indicted.
(from Ha'aretz)
More here: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3262230,00.html

And here on 16th June the parents of Jewish terroris Natan-Zada are calling for the detained 'suspects' to be charged with murder: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/992983.html
That Ha'aretz article on 16 June, just 10 days later, is written as though it is now doubted that Natan-Zada committed murder.
It's crazy - very crazy.
 
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