Building a gaming machine for £1200
- Thread starter bmd
- Start date
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Gskill has 1Ghz RAM as does OCZ (in fact they do the fastest RAM around), Corsair and kingston, but they are all still overclocking RAM (and in tests they don't always hit 1Ghz). Since they would cost 1/4 of his entire budget, and cost twice as much as normal RAM that would be very stupid. Of course you didn't mean that BMD should buy 1Ghz RAM, but you're yet to show why expensive RAM is needed, the performance increase of low latency RAM is minimal.
Bob_the_lost said:
Even if they don't hit 1 Ghz, if he's blown his money on a top of the range CPU + GFX card, what harm to get top notch RAM?
It would be different if he was on a budget, but he isn't is he? He may as well put the fastest components on the market on that motherboard.
Who cares if the RAM ends up costing £400, if it's the fastest memory known to man, to match the fastest processor + GPU ?
Mind you...........thinking about it.......if he starts to run out of money, he could take up your advice on the RAM and blow £200.00 odd quid on a PPU....
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Hate to break it to you but 1200 is still a budget. £300 on RAM £600 on CPU and £600+ on Graphics cards is already £1500 then you've got the RAID0 Raptor 150s, a £175 motherboard lian li case and other mod cons.
Wasting money on the RAM when it can go to the GPU is almost as indefensible as buying a PPU, the graphics decelerator. Priorities go something in this order GPU>CPU>HDD=RAM.
Wasting money on the RAM when it can go to the GPU is almost as indefensible as buying a PPU, the graphics decelerator. Priorities go something in this order GPU>CPU>HDD=RAM.
Getting a really good case will save you loads of money in the long run, getting rid of extra heat will really make a difference if you are going for a hight spec rig.
If you are building a rig for the first time be carefull, you can never have enough fans and heat sinks, even if you are not going to overclock
(really)
If you are building a rig for the first time be carefull, you can never have enough fans and heat sinks, even if you are not going to overclock
(really)
I have a 23" CRT which I run at 100Hz - it doesn't flicker at all. It can also go up to 1920 x 1440 and 120Hz (It's a Mitstubishi Diamond Plus 230SB link)TonkaToy said:
I have yet to be convinced that a reasonable priced (ie not an ultra-expensive high-end) TFT would offer me any siginficant advantages or improvement on this. I also value being able to choose my resolution without penalty when running games so as to get good performance out of my current graphics card.
TeeJay said:
Mate...it doesn't look like it's flickering, but technically it is as long as it has to do any refreshing....while 100 hz is well nice, use the thing for a while and it is harder to deal with than a TFT.
Please don't take this question the wrong way, but have you ever sat in front of a TFT for 8 hours on end?
I know there are bang per buck advantages when it comes to resolution, but if you use a TFT for a whole day, CRT just won't do anymore.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
I know it doesn't but a X1900XTX crossfire let alone a SLI 7900GTX OC version can. That would be top of the range, this is merely within spitting distance of it.TonkaToy said:
Now in this case wasting money on expensive RAM would mean you'd have to save money elsewhere. Find somewhere that it can be trimmed off that won't decrease performance or start using substandard parts and i'll be very surprised.
HD = RAM, load times are important in BF2 for example. Both are afterthoughts, only to be tweaked after you've got everything else maxed. Which is not the case here. (Hell buying high end RAM in this budget is the equivalent of sticking a spolier on your vauxhaul nova, pointless except for epenis posing). With the exception of the GPU these are all mid to high end parts, the GPU being high end but not ultra high.
I have built my own machine up from nothing a few times.
It really isn't that hard the PSU has a big indentifiable connector that just won't fit anywhere but the right place on the Mobo. Admittedly, I never got around to plugging in the little lights that show me the HD is working, but then, I can't see my case from where I sit anyway.
The rest is a piece of piss.
Also if you buy a mobo and processor at the same place, make em fit it for ya, that way if they screw up, they got to replace it, if they won't do it, go elsewhere, most will do it cause once you done it a few times, its pretty easy make sure its Heatsink and Fan included and they it is all fitted.
Once the Processor is on board, the rest is stuff you probably updated a few times anyway, sound card, graphics card and ram are things that just slot in place anyway.
As to RAM just make sure all the ram you buy is the same speed, the guy who had the problem with the 256 stick and the 64 stick likely bought different speed RAM, probably 2300 on the 64 and 2700 on the 256 stick, this will mean that the machine will only recognise the faster RAM and just completely ignore the rest.
Also remember when buying Graphics card that the amount of RAM on board isn't always the clearest indication of the best card, a Card 256mb of RAM isn't as good as a 128mb GT card. Best bet is to look around til you find the one that has the highest rating.
For 1200 quid you should concentrate on getting the highest rating card you can buy, the best processor a shit ton of RAM. Harddrives are pretty standard speeds you could probably stretch on your budget to something higher end, but I doubt it is worth it.
It really isn't that hard the PSU has a big indentifiable connector that just won't fit anywhere but the right place on the Mobo. Admittedly, I never got around to plugging in the little lights that show me the HD is working, but then, I can't see my case from where I sit anyway.
The rest is a piece of piss.
Also if you buy a mobo and processor at the same place, make em fit it for ya, that way if they screw up, they got to replace it, if they won't do it, go elsewhere, most will do it cause once you done it a few times, its pretty easy make sure its Heatsink and Fan included and they it is all fitted.
Once the Processor is on board, the rest is stuff you probably updated a few times anyway, sound card, graphics card and ram are things that just slot in place anyway.
As to RAM just make sure all the ram you buy is the same speed, the guy who had the problem with the 256 stick and the 64 stick likely bought different speed RAM, probably 2300 on the 64 and 2700 on the 256 stick, this will mean that the machine will only recognise the faster RAM and just completely ignore the rest.
Also remember when buying Graphics card that the amount of RAM on board isn't always the clearest indication of the best card, a Card 256mb of RAM isn't as good as a 128mb GT card. Best bet is to look around til you find the one that has the highest rating.
For 1200 quid you should concentrate on getting the highest rating card you can buy, the best processor a shit ton of RAM. Harddrives are pretty standard speeds you could probably stretch on your budget to something higher end, but I doubt it is worth it.
Bob_the_lost said:
Hold on a minute! You said he was hell bent on a 7950!
Bah! I need some sleep. Anyway, I already admitted that I would ditch the expensive RAM for a PPU. Hard disk is usless if you ever run out of RAM. If you ain't got enough RAM to run without paging, you're fucked, no?
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Did i? I think it was more me saying "go on, you know you want too".TonkaToy said:
No game currently released will use more than 2GB of RAM, i've never breached 1.6GB on my gaming machine and that took BF2 with 128 bots. So page file isn't relevant you're right. But for game loads you can save seconds if you've got a fast HD, which means you enter the map earlier and can make it to the vehicle you want before everyone else. It's nice to have but for the most part it's not all that important.
The PPU is a nice idea but it's a very bad purchase at the moment, there's only two games i know of that use it and while it makes the scenery a bit more interesting it doesn't add anything to the game play and it slows down the fps you'll get. Someday when the code is done in more games and done better than it is now i might consider a PPU, but not yet. Then there's the ATI idea of using an old GPU as a PPU, that looks very interesting, or the Nvidia's idea of offloading it onto the GPUs (not quite as attractive imo).
I haven't really had the chance to use a TFT for that long, so I will have to take your word for it. My next purchase will be a nice widescreen TFT (to sit alongside the 23" CRT and to replace the old 17" one that is currently my second). I'd advise anyone building a new system to get as decent a monitor as they can afford - something that is often overlooked in all the talk about CPU, RAM and graphics cards. My point was just that *some* people have very nice, large, high-quality CRTs that still work very well and have various technical advantages in various situations. A lot of old CRTs definitely need replacing asap, but some of the high end ones still hold up very well to - and in some aspects exceed - lesser TFTs. Having said that, you probably can't buy them any more - this is more aimed at people (like me) who already have one.TonkaToy said:
bmd
Island in the stream.
So here's what I'm looking at:
Gigabyte GA_965P_DQ6 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard £129.95
Intel Core 2 DUO E6700 "LGA775 Conroe" 2.67GHz (1066FSB)£349.95
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-6400 Dual Channel Special Ops XTC Series DDR2 £139.95
BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) £269.95
Antec P180 Advanced Super Midi Tower Case - No PSU (Black) £79.95
Antec TrueBlue 2.0 480W PSU £54.95
Subtotal £1,024.70
Shipping £26.95
VAT £184.04
Total £1,235.69
Any thoughts?
Gigabyte GA_965P_DQ6 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard £129.95
Intel Core 2 DUO E6700 "LGA775 Conroe" 2.67GHz (1066FSB)£349.95
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-6400 Dual Channel Special Ops XTC Series DDR2 £139.95
BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) £269.95
Antec P180 Advanced Super Midi Tower Case - No PSU (Black) £79.95
Antec TrueBlue 2.0 480W PSU £54.95
Subtotal £1,024.70
Shipping £26.95
VAT £184.04
Total £1,235.69
Any thoughts?
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
I hate you is the imediate one.
Followed quickly by:
6600 instead of the 6700, the 6700 is faster, but it is not possible to see that difference with your choice of graphics card. (Ie your bottleneck is going to be the GPU not CPU, a 6400 would have enough CPU power to mean that the limiting factor will be graphics quality. More CPU power than that won't improve gaming at all)
Different PSU (nearly all the Antec lines around at the moment are second rate with the exception of the Neo HE line and the Phantom line), the antec NeoHE is a great design for the P180, but be warned the P180 itself is a royal pain in the arse to work in, not to mention that it's a heavy beast. Lookt at the P150, quieter, looks pretty good and cheaper.
Final thought, you've got a hard drive coming from somewhere else i take it.
Followed quickly by:
6600 instead of the 6700, the 6700 is faster, but it is not possible to see that difference with your choice of graphics card. (Ie your bottleneck is going to be the GPU not CPU, a 6400 would have enough CPU power to mean that the limiting factor will be graphics quality. More CPU power than that won't improve gaming at all)
Different PSU (nearly all the Antec lines around at the moment are second rate with the exception of the Neo HE line and the Phantom line), the antec NeoHE is a great design for the P180, but be warned the P180 itself is a royal pain in the arse to work in, not to mention that it's a heavy beast. Lookt at the P150, quieter, looks pretty good and cheaper.
Final thought, you've got a hard drive coming from somewhere else i take it.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
You need a fan
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Depends, the 180 comes with three antec tricools (120x120x38mm) so you're sorted for case fans, and that price looks like it's for a retail CPU which means it comes with it's own fan, which is good enough, if not the quietest around.
bmd
Island in the stream.
Bob_the_lost said:
Yeah the 6700 comes with a fan, not sure about the 6600 though.
One thing I was wondering, would Overclockers UK put the motherboard and the CPU together for me? If not can anyone point me in the direction of a decent tutorial on how to do this without breaking something?
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
No they won't, both will ship in seperate boxes. The motherboard manual will include a few piccies on how to install the CPU in it, but if you want i can dig out one of the more complete guides for newbies if you want.
If the CPU is sold as "Retail" then it comes with a fan, "OEM" means without a fan, OEM typically comes with a 1 year warranty rather than 3 but as far as i know you void the intel (and AMD) warranty if you use anything other than thier stock cooler anyway. You don't want OEM.
Overclockers overcharges on CPUs
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112706/rb/20948590891
£20 cheaper, if you're buying other bits it's worth checking ebuyer for them too, they did have a steal on 7900GTXs a while back, i'll go have a peek. Yeah, you can get a 7900GTX for £30 less there too.
If the CPU is sold as "Retail" then it comes with a fan, "OEM" means without a fan, OEM typically comes with a 1 year warranty rather than 3 but as far as i know you void the intel (and AMD) warranty if you use anything other than thier stock cooler anyway. You don't want OEM.
Overclockers overcharges on CPUs
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112706/rb/20948590891
£20 cheaper, if you're buying other bits it's worth checking ebuyer for them too, they did have a steal on 7900GTXs a while back, i'll go have a peek. Yeah, you can get a 7900GTX for £30 less there too.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/pc-building/ Is a good start, but the layout of the P180 is very different to the one shown.
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2002/09/04/building_your_own_pc/index.html
That may be of help too, and finally if you are going to use a P180:
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2005/09/19/up_and_down_with_antec/
The words of an idiot doing everything wrong with a P180
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2002/09/04/building_your_own_pc/index.html
That may be of help too, and finally if you are going to use a P180:
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2005/09/19/up_and_down_with_antec/
The words of an idiot doing everything wrong with a P180
bmd
Island in the stream.
Bob_the_lost said:http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/pc-building/ Is a good start, but the layout of the P180 is very different to the one shown.
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2002/09/04/building_your_own_pc/index.html
That may be of help too, and finally if you are going to use a P180:
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2005/09/19/up_and_down_with_antec/
The words of an idiot doing everything wrong with a P180
I quite like the look of the P180, even with the knowledge that it's gonna be a bit harder to build. On that last link you posted it says to ensure the PSU cables for the drives are long enough. How do I find that out? I suppose I could ring Ebuyer and ask them to measure them for me but I've a feeling I know the answer to that already.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Which PSU are you going for? If it's the NeoHE 430W then it's fine. It's pretty much designed for the P180 with lovely long cables.
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/99136 For the 430W.
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/99136 For the 430W.
bmd
Island in the stream.
Bob_the_lost said:
I'll go for that one. But
rolleyes it sounds like the P180 is a part time Hoover. That article was saying that with all the fans it really sucks in the crap and my pc is on a desk that doesn't get cleaned behind as often as it should. I don't want to get this and then need to clean it out every 4 weeks. I think I've cleaned the pc I have now maybe twice in 3 years.Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Heh, he's talking craq then 
The P180's got removable filters, right now mine is sat on carpet (bad) unvacumed for months (very bad) and i haven't cleaned anything other than the easy accsess filters since i built it 8 months ago and it's still pretty clean inside.
Removable filters are teh
However again may i try to plug this little beauty: http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/99110
Comes with the Neo HE PSU already and unless you need more than 4 HD bays it's good enough for your build. The P180 is for overclockers who want to keep the noise down, the P150 is for people who want quiet elegance but aren't going to do anything that voids warranties.
The P180's got removable filters, right now mine is sat on carpet (bad) unvacumed for months (very bad) and i haven't cleaned anything other than the easy accsess filters since i built it 8 months ago and it's still pretty clean inside.
Removable filters are teh
However again may i try to plug this little beauty: http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/99110
Comes with the Neo HE PSU already and unless you need more than 4 HD bays it's good enough for your build. The P180 is for overclockers who want to keep the noise down, the P150 is for people who want quiet elegance but aren't going to do anything that voids warranties.
bmd
Island in the stream.
Bob_the_lost said:Heh, he's talking craq then
The P180's got removable filters, right now mine is sat on carpet (bad) unvacumed for months (very bad) and i haven't cleaned anything other than the easy accsess filters since i built it 8 months ago and it's still pretty clean inside.
Removable filters are teh
However again may i try to plug this little beauty: http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/99110
Comes with the Neo HE PSU already and unless you need more than 4 HD bays it's good enough for your build. The P180 is for overclockers who want to keep the noise down, the P150 is for people who want quiet elegance but aren't going to do anything that voids warranties.
I like the specs but unless those images aren't doing it justice it just looks like an ordinary pc case as opposed to the P180 which looks miiiiighty fine.
Similar threads
