Brown Plan for 'British Jobs for British Workers'

[YoursTruly]

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I'm sure a passport wouldn't be enough proof of one's 'Britishness', since it is possible to become a naturalised citizen.

I think your being a bit paranoid there tbh. Not that I agree with what the government is doing.

 

[Dissident Junk]

Actually, it is racist.

Poles are, on the whole, slavs; Brits are, on the whole, not slavs.

Therefore Poles are a different ethnicity/race to Brits, as a general rule.

And 'he who shall not be named' also thought Slavs were a different race/ethnicity to Western Europeans and were, in fact, "monkeys": twenty of which were worth one German.

So there.

 

[tbaldwin]

Yawn, you're a stuck record too. You and yer pal, treelover, are always bitching about the "left" and you both tend to use language that is redolent of the right. Get over yourself, dimwit.

If anyone disagrees with either of you, they're labelled "Liberal Left".

The thing is nino. Me and treelover dont agree on either of the issues you have tried to portray him as some rabid right winger.
But I respect Treelover as somebody who says what he thinks and has obviously given both issues some serious thought. Unlike some people.

 

[nino_savatte]

And if anyone disagrees with you or the rest of the Dalek fleet, they're labelled a tory.

What a tosser you are. Anyone who doesn't accept treelovers, baldwin or durutti's anti-immigration argument is a member of the "Liberal Left". I don't know which forum you're on but it isn't the same one as the rest of us. I think FM also made the same point. Maybe you should say the same thing to him - non?

"Dalek fleet"? Is this some new insult that has been adopted by the anti-immigration mob to dismiss their opponents? Tis crap.

 

[nino_savatte]

The thing is nino. Me and treelover dont agree on either of the issues you have tried to portray him as some rabid right winger.
But I respect Treelover as somebody who says what he thinks and has obviously given both issues some serious thought. Unlike some people.

Baldwin talking out of his arse (again).

 

[nino_savatte]

I think your being a bit paranoid there tbh. Not that I agree with what the government is doing.

Ah, the auld "you're paranoid" schtick". The record's stuck, bubba.

There are some folk who would call for even naturalised citizens to be repatriated.

 

[becky p]

What a tosser you are. Anyone who doesn't accept treelovers, baldwin or durutti's anti-immigration argument is a member of the "Liberal Left". I don't know which forum you're on but it isn't the same one as the rest of us. I think FM also made the same point. Maybe you should say the same thing to him - non?

As usual a fairly sensible discussion is hijacked by nino.
The same old mud slinging and intellectual light contributions that put people off contributing to these forums.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Good post dennisr.

 

[JoePolitix]

Great post in fact.

 

[nino_savatte]

Agreed, top post.

 

[urbanrevolt]

OK, well, I'll join the standing ovation too. Good post!

 

[urbanrevolt]

As I said on the Respect thread:

dennisr's post is quite good I think but also shows why we need to build a mass movement- not sure if it's up to treelover to convince us that we need a mass movement for the hundreds of thousands affected by welfare reform-

but- to bring this back to this thread- I think it does show that part of the challenge is for socialists and activists whether in Respect or not to begin making those links between e.g the mental health workers' strike in manchester, the freemantle strike in London, the postal strike when they go out again, antiwar work, anti BNP work, antideportation work, access to education for all etc.

Yes of course it takes real people and committed activists and indedd the aim of a campaign has to be to win

Leftists on here or reading this should be for organising in their workplaces, communities, localities, unions etc for solidarity on all these issues and beginning the process of linking rank and file militants up and down the country in all sorts of campaigns into rank and file led organisations that can begin to form mass movements

Standing in elections may be part of this if the elction campaign is used to mobilise support for the struggle not as an end in itself.

For example, if there was an election imminently and Karen Reissmann stood - even if under the banner of Respect (which she would of course unless it blew up before then) on the basis of being against cuts in the NHS, for the strike to win, against the war, for working class people to make decisions in our lives (and first of why not put the poicies and program to meetings of local people?) then I'd almost certainly campaign for that.

The point is though to build working class unity, orientate towards the class struggle, make connections, not just get lost in slagging one another off or making petty point scores or trying to promote your particular party/group whatever, but to build campaigns that can win and out of them a mass movement

 

[JoePolitix]

OK, well, I'll join the standing ovation too. Good post!

No good Urban - we went from "good" to "great" to "top". You've taken it back down to "good". You need to add a more appropriate superlative!

 

[urbanrevolt]

Yeah sorry!

Fucking fantastic post!

 

[YoursTruly]

Actually, it is racist.

Poles are, on the whole, slavs; Brits are, on the whole, not slavs.

Therefore Poles are a different ethnicity/race to Brits, as a general rule.

And 'he who shall not be named' also thought Slavs were a different race/ethnicity to Western Europeans and were, in fact, "monkeys": twenty of which were worth one German.

So there.

Bulshit. If the government comes up with a social reform package which benefits immigrants more than non-immigrants, is that racist?

Besides, the legislation isn't aimed at Poles, it's aimed at 2 groups of people.

British
Non-British

Not

British
Polish

So there.

 

[YoursTruly]

Ah, the auld "you're paranoid" schtick". The record's stuck, bubba.

There are some folk who would call for even naturalised citizens to be repatriated.

And. So what? There are folk who believe every immigant should be gased. On case it hasn't escaped your notice, no such people are anywhere near government.

 

[Gmart]

So GB is leaning towards Thatcher and the BNP - nice!

 

[nino_savatte]

And. So what? There are folk who believe every immigant should be gased. On case it hasn't escaped your notice, no such people are anywhere near government.

My what an intelligent reply.

 

[YoursTruly]

My what an intelligent reply.

Is that the sound of someone who's been caught out not making any logical sense what-so-ever?

I don't believe in pandering to "scare" culture, be it from the left or the right.

 

[nino_savatte]

Is that the sound of someone who's been caught out not making any logical sense what-so-ever?

I don't believe in pandering to "scare" culture, be it from the left or the right.

More nonsense. You didn't actually engage with my post but, instead, made some crass reply that was based on your own ignorance.

You ignored this for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.

There are some folk who would call for even naturalised citizens to be repatriated.

This isn't a "left/right" issue, bubba.

 

[YoursTruly]

More nonsense. You didn't actually engage with my post but, instead, made some crass reply that was based on your own ignorance.

You ignored this for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.



This isn't a "left/right" issue, bubba.

I'm not trying to score cheap points and I'm not ignorant on the subject I have commented on. If I found you was ignorant of something, I'd be forthcoming with some facts.

So the floor is yours. Do educate me on your comment concerning some peoples views naturalised British citizens, has any relevance on government policy towards the services they provide for British people.

 

[nino_savatte]

I'm not trying to score cheap points and I'm not ignorant on the subject I have commented on. If I found you was ignorant of something, I'd be forthcoming with some facts.

So the floor is yours. Do educate me on how the fact that there how your comment concerning some peoples views naturalised British citizens, has any relevance on government policy towards the services they provide for British people.

Again, rather than actually deal with the point that I've raised, you avoid it.

There are some folk who would call for even naturalised citizens to be repatriated.

This is entirely germane to any discussion of so-called British identity. You were trying to score cheap points.

 

[YoursTruly]

Again, rather than actually deal with the point that I've raised, you avoid it.



This is entirely germane to any discussion of so-called British identity. You were trying to score cheap points.

Hold on. You said, that there are people who feel that naturalised British people aren't good enough.

Right, yes or no?

Considering that such a number of people wouldn't fill Upton Park at a B match, so fucking what?

Or are you saying that someones going to put forward such an argument and behold, a sea of white racist mass across Britain will do the impossible and convince us all that naturalised British citizens don't cut it?

 

[nino_savatte]

Hold on. You said, that there are people who feel that naturalised British people aren't good enough.

Right, yes or no?

Considering that such a number of people wouldn't fill Upton Park at a B match, so fucking what?

Or are you saying that someones going to put forward such an argument and behold, a sea of white racist mass across Britain will do the impossible and convince us all that naturalised British citizens don't cut it?

I said nothing of the sort. How about going back and reading what I posted instead of making up what you wanted my post to say?

Oh and you drop the "e" from the word "true" when you form the adverb "truly".

 

[YoursTruly]

I said nothing of the sort. How about going back and reading what I posted instead of making up what you wanted my post to say?

Oh and you drop the "e" from the word "true" when you form the adverb "truly".

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I'm sure a passport wouldn't be enough proof of one's 'Britishness', since it is possible to become a naturalised citizen.
Reply With Quote

A passport will be proof enough, it's the cheapest way to do it. So are you going to enlighten us all as to how it won't be?

Not that I really fucking care, because I don't even support Brown's proposal.

 

[nino_savatte]

A passport will be proof enough, it's the cheapest way to do it. So are you going to enlighten us all as to how it won't be?

Not that I really fucking care, because I don't even support Brown's proposal.

Wtf are you talking about? Do you have a problem with concentration?

 

[YoursTruly]

Wtf are you talking about? Do you have a problem with concentration?

How are you helping the discussion with comments like this? I went back quoted your post like you asked me to.

So...please tell me, how you think the government will NOT choose a British passport as critiea and go for some BNP standard that excludes naturalised citizens as you implying.

Cheers.

 

[nino_savatte]

How are you helping the discussion with comments like this? I went back quoted your post like you asked me to.

So...please tell me, how you think the government will NOT choose a British passport as critiea and go for some BNP standard that excludes naturalised citizens as you implying.

Cheers.

I said that because you failed to read my post properly and you attributed words to me that I did not type. If you want a discussion, then you should at least try and be more honest.

 

[YoursTruly]

I said that because you failed to read my post properly and you attributed words to me that I did not type. If you want a discussion, then you should at least try and be more honest.

I quoted the post the 1st time. The 2nd was done from memory. The 3rd I quoted as per your request.

So where do we go from here? You say you want a debate. If you want a debate about what you posted, then please answer the question that I asked you, about what you posted.

If not, don't worry about it. It's just a messageboard, it's a sunny day etc.

 

[nino_savatte]

I quoted the post the 1st time. The 2nd was done from memory. The 3rd I quoted as per your request.

So where do we go from here? You say you want a debate. If you want a debate about what you posted, then please answer the question that I asked you, about what you posted.

If not, don't worry about it. It's just a messageboard, it's a sunny day etc.

Did you or did you not attribute these words to me?

You said, that there are people who feel that naturalised British people aren't good enough.

When I actually said this?

There are some folk who would call for even naturalised citizens to be repatriated.

Please tell me how you managed to extrapolate those words from what I typed. You're not here for a "debate" though, not if you're prone to putting words into folk's mouths.