Broke Back Mountain

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't remember the film ever making it clear that neither of them had sex with other men before. I'm pretty sure that Jack had been there before with other guys and Ennis may well have too. The fact that neither of them identified themselves as "queer" has nothing to do with it. There is plenty of sex going on between men in many repressive cultures and in exclusively male enviroments, where the men involved would never identify themselves as being homosexual.

The point is, if this was their first time together, and at least one of them if not both had been repressing his feelings/sexuality, don't you think, that a little mutual wanking/fellatio etc, might precede a beeline for the roundeye?

 

[Reno]

The point is, if this was their first time together, and at least one of them if not both had been repressing his feelings/sexuality, don't you think, that a little mutual wanking/fellatio etc, might precede a beeline for the roundeye?

To my knowledge oral sex is still illegal in Texas now, so it would have been considered a major transgression between men in the early 60's. I think the idea was that with the men being repressed (and they both were to varying degrees) they weren't going to explore gay sex in all its variety at this point . The sex wasn't supposed to be tender or "nice" but more of a copy of the rubbish straight sex they also engaged in: no foreplay, find the hole, stick it in, pump away. Due to Ennis' conflicted feelings towards his sexuality, it was also supposed to be a rather violent act, with Ennis asserting his masculinity.

A gay friend and her girlfriend went to it. They thought it was kind of hokey.

In any case, lesbians may not be the most reliable source qualified to comment on sex between men.

 

[London_Calling]

A gay friend and her girlfriend went to it. They thought it was kind of hokey.

For example, the two guys just come to discover their love/attraction for each other, and it gets physical.

She says, one minute they're sort of pushing each other away, next minute, one of them's bent over, and it's time for anal sex.

Is that based on the vast intimate experiences this homosexual woman of how homo or bi-sexual men conduct their affairs, cos frankly, I think she'd know less men than anyone.

Not that it's exactly central to the themes in the story - did she think the sheep were realistic breeds ?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

To my knowledge oral sex is still illegal in Texas now

 

[CharlieAddict]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/26/scotus.sodomy/

Regardless of sex, shouldn;t sodomy include blowjobs/anal?

Saw it over the w/end and it's the most overhyped garbage since Monster's Ball.
Ang Lee's best forbidden love story was The Wedding Banquet. Why wasn't that nominated for Oscars instead of this crap?

 

[Reno]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/26/scotus.sodomy/

Regardless of sex, shouldn;t sodomy include blowjobs/anal?

Saw it over the w/end and it's the most overhyped garbage since Monster's Ball.
Ang Lee's best forbidden love story was The Wedding Banquet. Why wasn't that nominated for Oscars instead of this crap?

I think there was a separate law that forbade oral sex regardless of sexual orientation in several US states. I'm not going to put "oral sex" and "Texas" into the search engine at work to find out though.

In any case, I thoroughly agree that Brokeback Mountain is overrated and that The Wedding Banquet was considerably a better film.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

To my knowledge oral sex is still illegal in Texas now, so it would have been considered a major transgression between men in the early 60's.

"Well, pardner, it's illegal to have oral sex, so I'll just fuck your ass instead.."

Yep, that must be texas logic.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Is that based on the vast intimate experiences this homosexual woman of how homo or bi-sexual men conduct their affairs, cos frankly, I think she'd know less men than anyone.

Not that it's exactly central to the themes in the story - did she think the sheep were realistic breeds ?

She actually knows lots of gay men.

 

[Reno]

She actually knows lots of gay men.

Have you actually seen the film or are you just arguing a point on account of what friends have told you ?

"Well, pardner, it's illegal to have oral sex, so I'll just fuck your ass instead.."

Yep, that must be texas logic.

I am a gay man who grew up in a very conservative environment were gay men generally stayed in the closet and ion some cases got married. I also lived in the US for several years and American culture and politics encourages some serious hang ups and double standards about sex. Maybe you should try and read beyond the first sentence to understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

"Well, pardner, it's illegal to have oral sex, so I'll just fuck your ass instead.."

Yep, that must be texas logic.

I think sex toys may be illegal there too. So you can't use a dildoe. Have to go with the real thing.

Of course, you have to realize that no one pays attention to those laws.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Have you actually seen the film or are you just arguing a point on account of what friends have told you ?



I am a gay man who grew up in a very conservative environment were gay men generally stayed in the closet and ion some cases got married. I also lived in the US for several years and American culture and politics encourages some serious hang ups and double standards about sex. Maybe you should try and read beyond the first sentence to understand what I'm getting at.

Fair enough; no, I haven't seen it, and if you read my post, it would be apparent that Im describing what a friend said about the movie. However, we talked about it after she'd seen it, and she explained her thoughts about the way some things were presented.

Perhaps they were copying the rubbish sex that they saw on tv, but something I've learned from living in a city with a large gay population, and getting to know many gay people, reading gay publications, etc, is that penetrative anal sex isn't the be all and end all the way penetrative vaginal sex seems to be for straight culture, especially in the early going, when a person is coming to terms with his sexuality, and begins with timid experimentation.

There have also been discussions on this bb where posters have said the same thing.

This isn't somehow an attack on gay sexuality. It is a question about the verisimilitude of the film, admittedly based on the comments of another who was the moviegoer.

 

[Leica]

Johnny, your argument about realism is built on an out of context, second hand picture. You're still missing the (at least three different) points that were put to you above, and you're also missing a further point that you would have been able to figure out had you seen the film. You're talking about experimentation and intimacy when these guys are hardly intimate, when they've hardly exchanged any words previously. As such they have sex in the least intimate way there can be.
The experimentation you (or your friends who saw the film) expect is the opposite of being timid.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Johnny, your argument about realism is built on an out of context, second hand picture. You're still missing the (at least three different) points that were put to you above, and you're also missing a further point that you would have been able to figure out had you seen the film. You're talking about experimentation and intimacy when these guys are hardly intimate, when they've hardly exchanged any words previously. As such they have sex in the least intimate way there can be.
The experimentation you (or your friends who saw the film) expect is the opposite of being timid.

Tell me if I'm wrong: is it true that in the development of a homosexual man's sexuality, he's likely to engage in mutual masturbation, oral sex, etc, before going on to anal sex?


BTW, I get your point about the protagonists in the film not seeking or engaging in intimacy.

I suppose I should watch the film.

 

[Pie 1]

Visually speaking it's beautiful

This is why I have to see it on the big screen.
I know what Dub means when he says he finds Lee a bit mannered, but his films are just exquisite visually and very subtally so - he's one of the best there is for that.
CTHD is obvious to point at and rightfully so, but go back and check out The Ice Storm if you've not seen it - the sets & cinematography really are the bollocks.

 

[Reno]

Tell me if I'm wrong: is it true that in the development of a homosexual man's sexuality, he's likely to engage in mutual masturbation, oral sex, etc, before going on to anal sex?

That's beside the point because we are not talking about well adjusted homosexuals living in a tolerant enviroment. Having said that, some gay men (and women and heterosexuals) who are perfectly comfortable with their sexuality prefer their sex rough. but that's for different reasons.

I suppose I should watch the film.

It may help if you want to engage in an informed discussion about the film.

 

[Leica]

Tell me if I'm wrong: is it true that

Life is not a clinical textbook and neither are films. I'm sure you don't need me to talk you through the Kama Sutra but you have got your categories all wrong.
Besides, who said these guys were developing their sexuality in that scene. They look like they already have a pretty clear picture.

 

[CharlieAddict]

Was their sex rough? I thought it was all passion.

That first love scene in Brokeback- the struggle, the deep kiss, the penetration, reminded me of Connery and Pussy Galore's 'fight' in Goldfinger. She physically fights Connery because he or his gender was the enemy etc...and being a 60s movie, she gives in. Hoorah! Manpower!!!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's beside the point because we are not talking about well adjusted homosexuals living in a tolerant enviroment..

Where does this tolerant environment exist?

And are well adjusted homosexuals born, or do they become that way as the result of a process of growth and increased self awareness?

 

[han]

Just saw this....beautiful film....so sad...

*sob*

Couldn't fault it, really! Just makes you realise how homophobia fucks up peoples lives and so pointlessly...

 

[CharlieAddict]

And are well adjusted homosexuals born, or do they become that way as the result of a process of growth and increased self awareness?

Good point.

Two main school of thoughts for this one.

1. Homosexuality is biologically pre-determined and the person realises their preferences in the maturing process.

2. Homosexuality is chosen.

But in Brokeback Mountain, it's back to ancient Greece where a man chooses to reproduce with a women and have sexual affairs/companionship with the same sex (usually much younger).

 

[han]

Good point.


1. Homosexuality is biologically pre-determined and the person realises their preferences in the maturing process.

2. Homosexuality is chosen.

Does it matter?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Does it matter?

Probably not, but it makes for an interesting discussion.

 

[han]

ok

 

[CharlieAddict]

In the beginning, Ennis had 2 daughters and 1 son.
At the end we only saw the daughter.

Did the other two reject him or something?

 

[Cadmus]

sorry to intrude...

Weekly Grocery Lists for Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist, Summer, 1962

WEEK ONE
Beans
Bacon
Coffee
Whiskey

WEEK TWO
Beans
Ham
Coffee
Whiskey

WEEK THREE
Beans
Bacon
Coffee
Whiskey
K-Y

WEEK FOUR
Beans
Pancetta
Coffee (espresso grind)
Whiskey
2 tubes K-Y

WEEK FIVE
Fresh Fava beans
Jasmine rice
Prosciutto, approx. 8 ounces, thinly sliced
Medallions of veal
Porcini mushrooms
1/2 pint of heavy whipping cream
1 Cub Scout uniform, size 42 long
5-6 bottles good Chardonnay
1 large bottle Astro-glide

WEEK SIX
Yukon Gold potatoes
Heavy whipping cream
Asparagus (very thin)
Eggs
Lemons
Gruyere cheese (well aged)
Walnuts
Arugula
Butter
Olive oil
Balsamic vinegar
6 yards white silk organdy
6 yards pale ivory taffeta
Case of Chardonnay
Large tin Crisco

 

[Reno]

Probably not, but it makes for an interesting discussion.

Only for clueless heterosexuals.

 

[Pie 1]

Weekly Grocery Lists for Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist, Summer, 1962

WEEK ONE........................

More than . really.
That one been doing the email rounds lately then?

 

[Cadmus]

nope.

just have some well aged Gruyere cheese and relax.

 

[marco mark]

Weekly Grocery Lists for Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist, Summer, 1962

WEEK ONE


You offensive little shite Cadmus Fuck u

 

[CharlieAddict]

Only for clueless heterosexuals.

why do you have such a high opinion of the masses?