Athos said:
LOL! A colleague of mine - Brixton born and bred - did just that - moved out to the Kent coast and sold his family house in SW9 for a mint. Who could fucking blame him - being surrounded by weird middle class white liberals...
Brixton's Culture Blanding Out
- Thread starter hatboy
- Start date
LOL! A colleague of mine - Brixton born and bred - did just that - moved out to the Kent coast and sold his family house in SW9 for a mint. Who could fucking blame him - being surrounded by weird middle class white liberals...
newbie said:
The feeling I get from my parents' generation is that they felt financially insecure and risk averse. Those 30s semis in the suburbs with a garden seemed a much safer bet than taking over more challenging modernisation jobs (and potential money pits) in the centre. My parents apparently didn't want to overstretch themselves by buying a 'risky' house on the edge of Clapham Common rather than a marginally cheaper one in Mitcham many years ago. I suspect they made the wrong financial decision...
I would suspect that long term council tenancies and right-to-buy may have added and levelled the playing field somewhat. But Ern's impression of a burgeoning, successful immigrant landlord class seems somewhat at odds with my experience.
Those 30s semis in the suburbs are worth, what, £200-300,000 now? You seem to be down on your parents for not doing well enough.tarannau said:The feeling I get from my parents' generation is that they felt financially insecure and risk averse. Those 30s semis in the suburbs with a garden seemed a much safer bet than taking over more challenging modernisation jobs (and potential money pits) in the centre. My parents apparently didn't want to overstretch themselves by buying a 'risky' house on the edge of Clapham Common rather than a marginally cheaper one in Mitcham many years ago. I suspect they made the wrong financial decision...
I would suspect that long term council tenancies and right-to-buy may have added and levelled the playing field somewhat. But Ern's impression of a burgeoning, successful immigrant landlord class seems somewhat at odds with my experience.
Right-to-buy has NOT levelled any playing field - what are you a Thatcherite? RTB is one of the biggest disasters this country has ever seen.
Your impression of a downtrodden, exploited immigrant class belongs in your flowery imagination btw. Look at Spitalfields.
Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
I think this attitude is quite widespread. My girlfriend occassionally gets shouted or hissed at in the streets by people (young women usually) who look poor and black. Especially when she's pushing the baby around.aurora green said:
When I push the baby around I don't get that because it's always cute to see men with babies.
Anyway, it's not the end of the world, but there's clearly some bad feeling. But we can't help being white and middle class so neither of us are going to apologise. And I'm sure we have an easier time than any working class black people who live in my small home town on the south coast.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
fanta said:Even if this is true, nothing is permanent. Everything is temporary. It is not the end of the world. There are much more urgent and important things for the pessimists to be wringing their hands about.
Have you any idea how pompous you sound? "The pessimists" indeed! So anyone who does not share your apparent dream of a brave new world of "progress" where "young professionals" can sip cappuccino without being troubled by the irksome presence of dwellers in social housing is some sort of despicable low life, deserving of nothing but contempt?
I really don't believe I'm alone when I say that this is how you come across.
ernestolynch said:
RTB is a disaster, but on your terms it has levelled the playing field - it's allowed those West Indian families to sell up and leave the area when perhaps they wouldn't have been able to do so before.
I'm not down on my parents at all - they made the best decisons they could have at the time. What I am saying is that they - like most other hard working immigrant families - were perhaps not best placed to benefit from the boom in property prices.
newbie
undisambiguated
tarannau, no I wouldn't identify a significant landlord class.
Inevitably some of the Windrush families were more financially successful than others, so some were owners here while others were still in coldwater slums. But don't forget that the 70s & early 80s were a time of flight away from the inner cities towards suburbs and hinterland newtowns.There were very good reasons for that, with quality of life being at the top, as well as financial insecurity in an era & area of very high unemployment. Selling a house in Brixton during the late 70s era of corrugated iron voids, sus and squats or post-uprising early 80s was hard because few people with choices wanted to live here. I've said before I think the great GLC giveaway (86?) kickstarted the repopulation process and contributed hugely to regeneration. Prior to that happening it wasn't at all obvious that the innercities had much QoL to offer in any forseeable future.
Their decision may look financially unwise at this distance, but money isn't everything.
edit I've just seen your last, posted while I was writing this; now I understand a bit better what you were meaning.
Inevitably some of the Windrush families were more financially successful than others, so some were owners here while others were still in coldwater slums. But don't forget that the 70s & early 80s were a time of flight away from the inner cities towards suburbs and hinterland newtowns.There were very good reasons for that, with quality of life being at the top, as well as financial insecurity in an era & area of very high unemployment. Selling a house in Brixton during the late 70s era of corrugated iron voids, sus and squats or post-uprising early 80s was hard because few people with choices wanted to live here. I've said before I think the great GLC giveaway (86?) kickstarted the repopulation process and contributed hugely to regeneration. Prior to that happening it wasn't at all obvious that the innercities had much QoL to offer in any forseeable future.
Their decision may look financially unwise at this distance, but money isn't everything.
edit I've just seen your last, posted while I was writing this; now I understand a bit better what you were meaning.
isvicthere? said:
What you describe is not my 'dream'. I don't even like cappuccino.
Like most (I think) I want to see much much more affordable social housing, not just locally but across the country generally. Hey, I would love to have a chance of getting one!
I just don't think that Brixton, and the cultural diversity that makes it such an interesting place to live, is going to suddenly die overnight as others seem to imply.
I don't believe that black people are being disproportionately pushed out of the area to make room for middle class whites either. I do know that plenty of blacks - the siblings of my partner are prime examples - aspire to move out to places like Thornton Heath, Norwood etc by getting professional jobs through tertiary education.
And good for them too! They have seen the crap their parents went through! My partner's mum became an owner occupier by buying her house off Coldharbour Lane and paid for it by spending 30 odd years cleaning office toilets.
I'd love to see certain posters on here tell her children to their faces that buying your home is wrong.
Pompous? Me? Okay, if you say so!
But that is not as pompous as the risible lament that gentrification (I fucking LOVE that word!) is ruining the street vibe from the inverted snob (invariably WHITE - oh the irony!) brigade, pal!
fanta said:
On the money, that post. Nice one. Say no more.
Does that mean you're going to fuck off now?ernestolynch said:
IntoStella said:
If my presence here annoys you then no.
These forums would be bland without a bit of showboating.
If people could keep their posting styles to actually expressing their genuine feelings rather than stirring then this thread would have flowed much better. It's full of presumption about what people imagine other people mean.
This disruption has mainly been initiated by Ernesto. Honestly Ernesto I won't tolerate your deliberate trolls in here and nasty humour.
To answer your question honestly about this:
I said:
"Brixton will become a pale (in more ways than one) imitatation of itself"
Ask around Ernie. Many, many people, both black, white or whatever have noticed both the blanding out of Brixton's character and sidelining of the needs of many in the local black and poorer general community. This is not my liberal nostagia or something. This is what many people think here. It really is.
Regarding Aurora - she may have used slightly clumsy words - said something in a hurry like you would in conversation - but her point is perfectly understandable and valid.
And it is simply this: After years of being in very racially-mixed venues/environments in Brixton - which was normal and un-commented on - it now feels wrong and weird to sit in some central Brixton venues and find then full of conservative-looking white people.
I think it's perfectly OK of Aurora to say she finds that a bit strange and wonders what it means for the area.
This disruption has mainly been initiated by Ernesto. Honestly Ernesto I won't tolerate your deliberate trolls in here and nasty humour.
To answer your question honestly about this:
I said:
"Brixton will become a pale (in more ways than one) imitatation of itself"
Ask around Ernie. Many, many people, both black, white or whatever have noticed both the blanding out of Brixton's character and sidelining of the needs of many in the local black and poorer general community. This is not my liberal nostagia or something. This is what many people think here. It really is.
Regarding Aurora - she may have used slightly clumsy words - said something in a hurry like you would in conversation - but her point is perfectly understandable and valid.
And it is simply this: After years of being in very racially-mixed venues/environments in Brixton - which was normal and un-commented on - it now feels wrong and weird to sit in some central Brixton venues and find then full of conservative-looking white people.
I think it's perfectly OK of Aurora to say she finds that a bit strange and wonders what it means for the area.
What did you mean - 'paler in more ways than one'?
Did you include yourself in this equation?
Did you include yourself in this equation?
This thread reminds me of white 'travellers' moaning about how the beach is full of 'tourists'. 
Ol Nick said:
He's whiter than me!
(and a lot less interesting) (joke)
Belushi said:- less interesting
Why are white people less interesting than black?
I think they mean in a secret stache of National Geographic magazines in father's study kind of way.
Bonfirelight
Crocodile
ernestolynch said:This thread reminds me of white 'travellers' moaning about how the beach is full of 'tourists'.
you just dont get it, its only cool if you're the only white guy on the beach.
Bonfirelight said:
As long as the black 'guys' don't get too pushy with their sales techniques...
Bonfirelight
Crocodile
i bought a wicked watch and a pair of sunglasses in benidorm a few years back.
10euros or something. still works too.
10euros or something. still works too.
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
i've been in the lounge at least once most weeks recently. the proportion of white to black varies each time. bit like picking 4 coloured balls out of a bag of 8 - sometimes you will pick all one colour, sometimes all the other, sometimes a mix of the two.aurora green said:Rather than focusing the entire thread on me, its obvious I dont like anyone and its not the first time I've ben invited to leave Brixton on these boards,
Perhaps it might be more relevant to ask why a new venue such as the Lounge had not one black face in it. Perhaps it was just a one off, and perhaps as you all say, I am a racist for caring, but it troubles me that somewhere new in Railton Rd ffs, should seem white only.
i have never been in the the lounge when the clientele has been either all white or all black. there's usually a mixture of skin colours in there. same goes for sw9, the albert, woolworths and sainsburys.
i've been in the lounge when i was the only female once, but i couldn't then say that their clientele is primarily male.
aurora, i'm not having a deep dig here, 'cos i think you've said many good things in this forum, but perhaps a few more visits to some of these seemingly white establishments would be fair. i think you just happened to pull all the white balls out of the bag that day.
perhaps a little urban research is called for? i'll volunteer to while away a day sipping coffee, juice (and wine) at the lounge with clipboard in hand measuring the ethnic breakdown of the clientele. might have to visit more than once on different days at different times in order to get a fair sample. anyone care to join me?
Here comes my 19th ethnic breakdown.miss minnie said:
Ernesto - re-read the thread. I've explained honestly what I meant by the "pale imitation" comment.
I would say that Brixton is becoming less interesting and also becoming whiter.
But no one has said except you that this means black people are more interesting than white.
Personally I like characters - both black or white or whatever. But it is both the characters and the character that are leaving or being left out of Brixton. And those characters, of whichever colour are mainly being replaced with conservative young professionals.
Also me and most of my friends are poor. This is happening to poor people. So we notice.
Tis true I'm afraid.
I would say that Brixton is becoming less interesting and also becoming whiter.
But no one has said except you that this means black people are more interesting than white.
Personally I like characters - both black or white or whatever. But it is both the characters and the character that are leaving or being left out of Brixton. And those characters, of whichever colour are mainly being replaced with conservative young professionals.
Also me and most of my friends are poor. This is happening to poor people. So we notice.
Tis true I'm afraid.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Blagsta said:
I wasn't necessarily having a go at Urbanites per se, more at the white middle class liberals who think that, by moving to Brixton, putting their hair in dreads and smoking weed (or adopting the 'alternative' lifestyle in whatever other way), they're making a big contribution to Brixton, and are part of it, but that anyone alse coming in doesn't belong. I've met them, and they're knobs.
Equally, I know some decent middle class white people who live in Brixton and do a hell of a lot for the local community.
I agree that every area should have affordable housing, so people aren't priced out of an area, but I don't think people should get so precious about insisting that an area must remain the same, especially when, in doing so, they express what appear to be thinly veiled racist sentiments (such as complaining that an area is becoming too 'pale').
