#BrixtonCantBreathe ...meeting.

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Lee Japser, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

    Personally I can't wait for the introduction of driverless cars - I hate driving! But it will hit may industries very hard - cab drivers, insurance brokers, mechanics (cars will just 'drive' themselves to some massive service centre in the middle of nowhere when they need MOT/service/fault diagnosis)
  2. Rushy

    Rushy AKA some / certain posters

    Still quite a long way off sadly. Was listening to the middle age guy in charge of self drive at Daimler saying that he thought it would probably be in his lifetime.

    R4 The Bottom Line - future of the car industry
    BBC Radio 4 - The Bottom Line, The Future of the Car Industry

    I can't wait!
  3. Rushy

    Rushy AKA some / certain posters

    No good for diesels, unfortunately.
  4. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    The cost will pass on to passengers, unless Uber drivers are currently making significantly more income than what they'd potentially be prepared to accept, which seems unlikely. Maybe the cost for passengers increasing would make fewer people use it, meaning there would be less work for drivers and some would have to stop doing it.

    In principle it's right that it should pass on to passengers. It's too cheap at present. It's a luxury that we can't afford in a city with congestion problems and perfectly adequate public transport.

    I'd been wondering for a while, to what extent the rise in uber could contribute to congestion so it's interesting to see some numbers in that report. In 2013, private hire vehicles made up about 18% of car traffic within the congestion charging zone (during congestion charge operating hours) and now they make up 38%. That's significant.

    Something else I wonder about is how it impacts on revenue for TfL. Each Uber journey is potentially a tube or bus fare lost by TfL. I particularly wonder how it impacts on night bus revenue/ridership. Could we potentially get to a situation where night bus frequency is being reduced because of lower ridership? That would not be a positive step.

    Near me there's a place that sometimes does club nights, and often at closing time there's a giant crowd of people hanging about on the street for some time. I was wondering why until I realised that most of them were waiting for Ubers. There will often be a turnover of 5 or 6 cars being there at any one time, turning around in the street and picking passengers. I reckon 5 years ago that same crowd of people would have mostly dispersed to get night buses or even just walk.
  5. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

    This has been a good thread, so thanks Lee Japser (keep wanting to type Japseye :eek:) for starting it.
    Not sure what happened the the meeting though....
  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I know people who work in private hire and deliveries. Earnings have gone down. With Uber on the scene and so many more private hire vehicles competition has increased. The losers are the drivers. Increases in fuel costs etc these companies expect the drivers to absorb. To earn a living and cover costs drivers have to work long hours. Uber may work as a second job to top up earnings but it's hard to do it as main job. I doubt all increases in future would be passed onto passengers. Some but not all.

    It's undermining the Black Cab trade as a cabbie told me recently. Cabbies still have some political clout to protect there industry. I notice from report that Black Cab numbers have not increased. They run a tight ship. Becoming a Black Cab driver is not easy. They make sure numbers are limited.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  7. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Agree with this. Had friend today who said she finally downloaded Under app last night after pub. It's relatively cheap and she said the driver turned up within five minutes to the pub.

    More experienced drivers make sure at certain times they are in specific locations. Just as clubs close or theatre show finishes.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  8. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

    It has probably ended in the same way as all his other 'initiatives' have done in the 30-odd years since he appeared in London's African community from nowhere.
  9. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    From Oldham, rather than nowhere, surely?
    ash likes this.
  10. urbanspaceman

    urbanspaceman Well-Known Member

    I received the minutes of the first "Air Quality Action Plan" steering group meeting this morning. I would like to share this (utterly anodyne and uncontroversial) document with you, but the document itself was accompanied by an MoU, of all things, which included this clause:

    “Except where a disclosure or announcement is required by law (or by any regulation, rule or any governmental or quasi-governmental authority or its equivalent), Steering Group members (Citizens, Residents, and Local Organisation Representatives) agree not to discuss any of the actions brought up in steering group meetings with any local or national press or media outlets without the consent of the other partners.”

    I have responded to Lambeth thus:

    1) Is it customary practice for the London Borough of Lambeth to require ordinary citizens and council tax payers to submit to NDAs ?
    2) Can you define precisely: local or national press or media outlets ? What is the nature of the test that differentiates between such a “media outlet”, and, for instance, a neighbourhood blog ?
    3) What are the consequences should I decline to sign this NDA ?
    To clarify matters in my own mind, I have asked a legal friend of mine to comment on the appropriateness and legality of Lambeth imposing this sort of “gag order” on unpaid community volunteers.

    Can any urbanites comment on whether such restrictions are customary, appropriate, in line with Lambeth policy, and/or legally supportable ?
    Gramsci likes this.
  11. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    I've no idea if it's customary with Lambeth or not but I'm sure it's not supportable in that you haven't signed up to any MoU, non-disclosure agreement or anything else. If you agree to it then maybe but they can't just stick it on there and expect people to abide by it. The whole point of an MoU is that people agree to it!

    I could put something on this post banning anyone from discussing it but it would just look stupid...
    Gramsci likes this.
  12. urbanspaceman

    urbanspaceman Well-Known Member

    I haven't signed the MoU, but did receive a response to my earlier message, and then replied, as below:

    Thanks for your response. Could you answer point 2:
    Can you define precisely: local or national press or media outlets ? What is the nature of the test that differentiates between such a “media outlet”, and, for instance, a neighbourhood blog ?
    A further question. While members may not “discuss any of the actions brought up in steering group meetings”, can they share work products published (and presumably approved by Lambeth) after the meeting ?

    In response to:

    Lambeth person 1:
    Subject: RE: AQAP Steering group minutes and Memorandum of Understanding
    Hi Urbanspaceman,
    Thank you for your email.
    As per [Lambeth person 2's] explanation in the initial meeting, the AQAP steering group is meant to be a group where we all work together. Members of the steering group will have access to information that will not be in the public realm and may not have all the relevant information to make an informed comment to the press/ public. We are not imposing a “gag order” there will be press on the AQAP but this will go through our press office. If you have anything which you feel we should include in the press release then this can be discussed in the AQAP steering group. Anyone that does not wish to sign and return the MoU will not be part of the AQAP steering group.

    So that's me told then.

    Remember Citizen: Membership means Silence

    PS: This all might seem rather silly, and I recognise how modest the stakes are. But it's a kind of small-scale science experiment - to investigate how even the most petty bureaucrat harbours instinctively anti-liberal impulses.
    redsquirrel, Gramsci and editor like this.
  13. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    So everything will go through Lambeth Press Office. It's micro management.
  14. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Local journalists have told me that if they ask a Cllr to comment on a local issue they get referred to the Press Office. Lambeth Press Office are a tool of the leadership.
  15. discobastard

    discobastard edited

    If somebody accidentally left a copy on a bus or somewhere public and then somebody else found it and decided to photograph and post it on an interested local forum then that would be unfortunate.
    billythefish and Gramsci like this.
  16. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the implications of this nearby and relevant case could be discussed at the meeting to be called:

    Last week, the High Court has decided to open a new inquest into the death of Ella Kissi-Debrah. The Attorney General Rt Hon Geoffrey Cox QC gave consent for the application after receiving new evidence linking Ella’s death to illegal levels of air pollution.


    (Source: as stated in image)

    The Late Ella Kissi-Debrah, who lived 25 metres from the South Circular Road in London, died in 2013 after three years of seizures and 27 visits to hospital for asthma attacks.

    An inquest in September 2014 concluded Ella’s death was caused by acute respiratory failure and severe asthma.

    Professor Stephen Holgate found that spikes in air pollution could be linked to Ella’s 27 asthma episodes that left her in a hospital bed.

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