#BrixtonCantBreathe ...meeting.

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Lee Japser, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. Lee Japser

    Lee Japser Well-Known Member

    I am about to call a meeting to discuss how we respond to the deteriorating quality of the air we breathe. Of course there is the wider issue of public health but my wife suffers form chronic asthma that has gotten so much worse over the last five years.

    The rate of respiratory problems for families living on or near the A23 is extensive and there is research confirming as much.

    If your interested in attending a planning meeting that discusses what our communities can do to further highlight and demand real action from those with responsibilities, please contact me directly with your details and I will invite you to the meeting.

    Additionally if you have any ideas or suggestions I'd love to hear them. Thanks

    #BrixtonCantBreathe

    Brixton Road breaches annual air pollution limit in five days - BBC News
     
  2. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Someome made a good comment on Brixton Buzz about the scale of the problem and the difficulty in finding a practical solution:

    It's a huge problem that's going to need multi-agency involvement and, I suspect, the kind of political will that is unlikely to be mustered up by a cash-strapped, Tory-esque Lambeth Council.
     
  3. elmpp

    elmpp Banned Banned

    all star thread right here
     
  4. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    The A23 is one of the most serious and possibly intractable problems in London traffic management. It's an effectively unavoidable arterial, almost entirely impossible to widen or bypass, and beyond capacity. Nowhere is it worse than Brixton. Just dreadful. But I can see no viable and acceptable solution, at any cost.

    What is being proposed?
     
    editor likes this.
  5. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    Disperse London around the uk and make everyone cycle everywhere.

    You can't have 8-10 million people living in close proximity, owning cars, buying goods etc without having associated pollution.
     
    Chemical needs and sealion like this.
  6. se5

    se5 Well-Known Member

    My understanding is that the problems in Brixton town centre come mainly not from the cars but the large number of buses that pass through the area - I recall seeing an article about the improvement in air quality that had been seen when we had a bus strike a year or two ago. When the ultra low emission zone is introduced in 2020 it will have a major impact on Brixton (not that this reduces the need to cut down on traffic generally through Brixton)

    Doing some googling I see that Brixton to Streatham is one of the 12 low emission bus zones that will introduced this October - Sadiq Khan announces 10 new Low Emission Bus Zones to tackle toxic air | London City Hall so that will begin to address the problem

    The Loughborough Junction road closures would have contributed to a reduction of pollution on residential roads but following the outcry from a minority of local residents about their 'right' to drive their cars (but not their children's right to clean air) I dont think Lambeth will be proposing anything similar in the near future to tackle this
     
    shygirl, Gramsci and Winot like this.
  7. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Given that I can't see that road stopping being a major arterial road any time soon, the only way I can think of fixing things - in a cash unlimited world - is to replace buses with trams, banning lorries during daytimes and planting a shit load of trees along the route. Or burrowing an underpass. #totaldreamland
     
    shygirl likes this.
  8. 2hats

    2hats

    This is not correct - it is not as simple as more trees and shorter/less densely packed buildings. Each situation has to be considered on a case by case basis.

    For example, only some tree types contribute to pollution removal. Some actually make the situation worse in some weather situations eg increasing ground level ozone production through the interaction of the volatile organic compounds they produce with exhaust nitrogen oxides (DOI:10.1016/S1352-2310(98)00345-8). Trees can also increase the opportunities for pollutants to concentrate locally in stagnant air (DOI:10.1016/j.envpol.2012.10.021). Sometimes they are simply there more for the incidental psychological benefits, perception (reduce stress, conducive to encouraging people to get out and exercise more: DOI:10.1038/srep11610).

    Fairly subtle variations in urban architecture can also contribute to pollutant dispersal and concentration reduction (DOI:10.1007/s00703-003-0065-4). Pollution levels will vary on the same street with wind direction. Venturi effects can accelerate pollutant removal rates. It all depends on many fine details and the prevailing meteorological conditions at any given time.

    Ultimately, of course, the only effective solution is to remove the source of the pollution.
     
    Gramsci, elmpp and Maggot like this.
  9. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    Not even pavement room for trees, though. And the tube would scupper an underpass. An elevated route, like the westway, would solve some problems, but would be a visual blight and the critical stretch is too long at any rate.
     
  10. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Brixton always seems to be at the top of pollution lists. If it is worse than the likes of Piccadilly, Oxford Street etc then it seems weird to me. I can't believe we see significantly more traffic than most central London arteries.
     
  11. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    It's all fantasy really. Trams and a lorry ban would make a noticeable difference though, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.
     
  12. technical

    technical stripey

    If all buses passing through Brixton were low emission, how much difference would that make?
     
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  13. urbanspaceman

    urbanspaceman Well-Known Member

  14. Casaubon

    Casaubon Well-Known Member


    I can’t imagine AQAP Steering Group being to Mr. Jasper’s taste. He only seems to want to be involved in anything if he’s the centre of attention.

    I suppose he could join, and then whitewash the founders from the history............................................
     
    editor and Winot like this.
  15. urbanspaceman

    urbanspaceman Well-Known Member

    I learned at the AQAP meeting that the Brixton air quality readings may not be as terrible as suggested, and also not as bad as Piccadilly or Oxford Street. Proximity to the road interferes with like-to-like comparison - the Brixton monitoring station (outside Bon Marche) is right up against the carriageway, while the Oxford St station is set back. Calibration and maintenance may also be confounding factors. Lambeth has been preparing a response to the recent press coverage and will be publishing it.
     
    Winot, sealion and T & P like this.
  16. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    ban all diesel cars. or put a 2k a year tax on them.

    job done.
     
  17. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    And immediately get voted out of office, never to be re-elected.

    A solution unfortunately has to be politically viable.
     
  18. 2hats

    2hats

    This apposite juxtaposition of articles on the BBC News website last week seems to sum up quite nicely the progress to date in thinking on transport related pollution.
    autodementia.png
     
    Gramsci, CH1 and Celyn like this.
  19. Lee Japser

    Lee Japser Well-Known Member

    Thanks, great suggestions and information posted, its all very helpful. Please keep them coming. Its clear there need to be a combination of different actions from a multiplicity of stakeholders. My experience of ' multi agency partnership ' responses to anything is that nothing gets done. There must be national or international examples of communities taking action facing similar problems. I'm certainly going to look into that. If anyone here has examples Id love to her from you. It seems to me that the first action is to ensure that communities are aware of the dangers they face, and then to launch actions that will put pressure on politicians to take more meaningful a and effective action.
    Hmmm I shan't take the bait. Suffice to say I have lived in Lambeth for 30 years. My wife and one of my sons suffers from chronic asthma. Their conditions have become so much worse over the last few years, Constant emergency trips to A&E and endless variations of medications trying to manage their conditions. Im aware there are many other families that suffer and are affected too.
     
  20. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    So you were at the late 90s Reclaim the Streets parties in Brixton?
     
    Casaubon likes this.
  21. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    I've never understood why record breaking numbers of cars sales is something we're all supposed to celebrate. We should be celebrating increased bike sales and new bike-only routes.
     
    Eggby likes this.
  22. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    toblerone3 and editor like this.
  23. Ergo Proxy

    Ergo Proxy Well-Known Member

  24. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

  25. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    It's the bottle neck at St Matthews, which they didn't fix previously, compounded by the narrow strip from there to Ferndale Road.
     
  26. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    Be interesting to see if the house prices drop in these pollution ridden areas in central London what with all the publicity pollution is getting. It'll definitely effect our next choice of move.
     
  27. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Presumably the same people who also see spiralling house prices as good news for everyone.
     
  28. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    But it's just as bad both ways. The one way around the church really isn't the slowest bit, and it's comparatively free-flowing south of that.
     
  29. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  30. Smick

    Smick Strictly Second Class

    Trolley buses would be better than trams. If they could be powered by catenary from Streatham Leisure Centre to Brixton Police station and use diesel either side of that.

    If Gatwick airport gets to expand in the way its management has been calling for, it will make things a lot worse along the A23.
     

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