Brixton violence and looting (7th Aug 2011)

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by dozi, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Nope, I'm SW2 and have been for the last 16 years. :)
     
  2. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    Ah, a blow-in ;)
     
  3. Emet

    Emet Member

    ViolentPanda: I have explained to you how police violence was made to be more visible. Visibility engages with incentives and disincentives for police behaviour. They respond like everyone else to incentives. I mentioned the appearance of a more middle-class intake( I might also have added the intake of ethnic minorities - a decade after Macpherson - at 20% in the Met). It was acknowledged by a wide range of opinion for decades that this would be erosive of the 'canteen culture' that protected so much police brutality and racism. I mentioned the pay and pensions of the police which further limits an inclination to break the rules. Add the recruitment of women. The canteen culture always opposed the recruitment of women. And for good reason, they might militate against it's male brutalist values.

    You have offered no explanation to the decline deaths in custody and have just stooped to insults. Your program of self-improvement should include control of a bad case of knee-jerk.
     
  4. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    A very local blow-in. AFAIK he's never lived outside of South London.
     
  5. Minnie_the_Minx

    Minnie_the_Minx someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox

    You still never told me if you were Irish or not?
     
  6. Emet

    Emet Member

    I'm a Londoner, born in Whitechapel. A proper cockney:D.
     
  7. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    A wrong un then - born the wrong side of the Thames.
     
  8. Emet

    Emet Member

    Quite foreign.
     
  9. Minnie_the_Minx

    Minnie_the_Minx someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox

    :D
     
  10. Minnie_the_Minx

    Minnie_the_Minx someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox

    Ah, Irish parents then?
     
  11. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    You explained nothing, you mentioned it in passing. Different thing entirely.

    Yes, they do. Like everyone else they seek to minimise effort and maximise income.

    Elucidate on this "wide range of opinion", please. Don't worry about mentioning abstruse articles, I've got an ATHENS account.

    Oh, and people (however learned) acknowledging before the fact is meaningless, so do you mean (as I suspect) that a wide range of opinion over decades has shown a more middle-class intake to be corrosive of canteen culture, if so, please give me some references. Shit, I'll even take Reiner if he's all you've to offer!

    I mentioned the pay and pensions of t
    You did. I believe I presented a counter-argument that given that a majority of "wrong'uns" are allowed to walk away with their pension rights intact, that your point wasn't of great utility.

    The canteen culture proceeded apace after the recruitment of women became generalised around '74.

    Care to point out where I've insulted you?
     
  12. Emet

    Emet Member

    ViolentPanda: OK, so I can't provide any supporting evidence for my claims about this trend in deaths in police custody. My case is quite unproven. Please, tell me about these alternative explanations.
     
  13. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    But you might like to have an unwarranted "internal examination" recorded in case you wanted to make a complaint!
     
  14. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    I doubt it has changed. I will put down a question at the Police Consultative Group which Emet finds so pompous and boring.
     
  15. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    At its very simplest, all police officers have compulsory CPR training, and have done (nationwide) since the early 1980s. That has made a big difference over the years, just as it has to the falling number of deaths among the general populace due to CPR becoming more widely known-about. If someone stops breathing, every policeman now has the tools to attempt cardiac stimulation and to breathe for the person until skilled medical help arrives.

    Then you have the fact that area medical coverage/attendance by doctors to police stations has changed vastly over the last 3 decades - the system, which used to be ad hoc, has been increasingly interlocked with general out-of-hours medical coverage, and has led to fewer deaths due to "hidden" injuries.

    And yes, of course CCTV has made some difference, but it's hardly been the massive factor for change that you've claimed it as. It's been a small part of a complex of reasons why there are less fatalities.

    Now, please point out where I've insulted you, as you were happy to claim that I had.
     
  16. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    Just to say they had "full insurance" and plan to carry on.
     
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  17. gaijingirl

    gaijingirl Well-Known Member

    I spoke briefly to the guy in Nunes today - he was very upset and the theft and damage done to his store. It's very sad to see a small family run place like that experience this shit.
     
  18. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/21/sean-riggs-police-death-cctv

    When this man died in Police custody , surprise surprise, there was no CCTV recording as for some unknown reason :rolleyes: it wasnt working precisely in the part of the station he died. Its his family who light the candles outside the police station.
     
  19. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I dont see that much difference. Cressida Dick has just been promoted (again) with the recent resignations in the Police. She was part of the fast tracked high fliers who were supposed to change the Met.

    When it came to the shooting of the Brazilian at Stockwell ( she was in charge- "Gold Commander") she covered her arse like any other copper would when it all went wrong.

    see here:
    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/107362

    "How can Londoners have confidence that the police can learn from experience and address institutional failings when Cressida Dick is promoted again to such a pivotal role?
    "This is despite the critical evidence that emerged at both the inquest and health and safety trial about the quality of her decision making and leadership in the face of a crisis on that fatal day six years ago."

    She is middle class , went to Oxford and is a woman. Ive also been told she is gay. Makes no difference. See link for her background.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cressida_Dick

    She was head the the Mets Diversity Directorate at one point:

    http://www.eortrial.co.uk/default.aspx?id=1055088

    Commander Dick was asked to take on the diversity leadership role following a career break in which she studied for a masters degree in criminology -specialising in race, gender and criminal justice issues. Although not a human resource specialist, she has been in the police service since 1983 and has a broad understanding of policing. She stresses that she has always fought hard for equality, fairness and diversity throughout her career, and so relished the move as an opportunity to back up her words with actions: "I saw it as a chance to really influence things on a large stage."

    What a load of bollocks.

    All that went out the window when it came to a dead Brazilian.

    BTW the link above details all the great works the Met has done for minorities:rolleyes:

    And the Met pays for there cops to do degrees. The Met are a joke.
     
  20. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Excellant article by journalist/ commentator Gary Young on the riots. Sadly I think they are accurate analysis:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/14/young-british-rioters-political-actions

    But likewise, insisting on economic deprivation, as though that is the sole context and alone explains their motivations, is only marginally less fatuous. While it was the young who took to the streets, this was not a Greek-style uprising, let alone a distant cousin to the Arab spring. Riots can produce tangible, progressive results. But beyond Tottenham, those who took to the streets last week failed to advance any cause, embrace any ideal or articulate any agenda.
    This places them firmly in the context of a weak an ineffectual left that has failed to reinvent and reinvigorate itself in the face of a deep economic crisis. It marks a generational failure. In the absence of any community leadership, viable social movements or memory of collective struggle, the most these political orphans could hope to achieve was private acquisition and social chaos.
    The fact that their actions were political does not therefore make them wise. The primary consequences will be greater authoritarianism, more police powers and an emboldened far right.
     
  21. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately that happens a lot around Brixton. Not just at CPCG.
     
  22. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    As was the case with all previous riots.

    From your argument with CH1 and Violent Panda I take it that you saying that police were brutal some time ago and they have now improved a lot. So, or am I making an assumption?, you think there is no excuse for rioting now but there was then. As there was no other way to object or change the way a community was policed. The same as some others - MP Chuka- say.

    I have been looking over the previous riots. Similar things were said as are being said now. That there was no excuse for rioting, that a criminal element took advantage and that others opportunistically looted.
     
  23. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...


    It's not exclusive to Brixton either.
     
  24. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Talking of hot air - I rate this morning's speeches: Cameron - NIL Millibean - 2
     
  25. Emet

    Emet Member

    I would say "less understandable in terms of general police violence" rather than "excuse". From what I know of what went on around here in the late 1970's the police are less brutal.
     
  26. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    There are already housing lawyers discussing thelegal issues around this. It is contestable.See here:

    http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2011/08/wandsworth-headed-for-the-naughty-step/
     
  27. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

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  28. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    Not that Wandsworth are yet proposing executing entire families but the idea of 'kin liability' is something the Nazis used. It is definitely a form of collective punishment which is expressly forbidden in the UN charter of human rights.
     
  29. Emet

    Emet Member

    I dare say there is nothing about kin liability in their tenancy agreements either. This part of the new regime surely has to unravel.
     
  30. Mairead

    Mairead Out of the shadows. . .

    It seems to me that Wandsworth (the Tory 'flagship' Borough) know that this will get kicked out of court and that it will be because of Human Rights legislation. When that happens just watch Cameron and the Daily Mail jump up and down shouting about how this legislation is ruining the country and means we are not safe on the streets etc etc. All grist to the mill . . .
     
    Gramsci likes this.

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