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Brixton Village, Market Row, Pope's Road, Lost In Brixton and Hondo Enterprises' Brixton empire

CH1

"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Spoilt as we are for Hondo threads, I notice no-one has commented on this snippet from the Evening Standard on 17th January last. Not Brixton - but definitely Hondo.

Time was when I ate my sandwiches watching the Finsbury Square bowling teams battling it out on top of the NCP car park in the early Thatcher years. At that time most of the buildings round there were various Inland Revenue district offices. Now at least a couple are a prestigious hotel - presumably starved of night life.

I imagine the Finsbury Square green space must be protected - so redeveloping the car park would be a much more expensive proposition than -say - Peckham Levels though I'm sure Hondo could call on more investment finance than Carl Turner.
Hondo.jpg
 

Brixton Hatter

Home is south London mate
I went to the exhibition in the Village today showing the Hondo plans for the Popes Road site (where Sports Direct and that 'Flannels' clothes shop are currently.)

I couldn't bear staying there more than a few minutes cos there was this twat selling the plans to a couple who'd arrived just before me, and he was banging on about 'revitalising the local vibrant creative industries' and 'creating permeable community spaces to enhance the productivity of the area.' Seriously, my bullshit bingo card was filled instantly so I grabbed a leaflet and left.

Basically they want to build a 21 storey tower block with various retail spaces and lashings of community-wash. A new 'public' (i.e. private) square, office space etc. It's not all bad but it's a property development after all and designed to rake in cash for Hondo. The tower will seriously dominate the centre of Brixton. Also they reckon it will "create safer neighbourhoods and natural surveillance." :hmm:

Anyway, you can see the plans here and respond to their consultation survey (which has some great leading questions, such as "do you support making our famous Brixton market a better place?"

www.yourvoicebrixton.com
popes rd.pngpopes rd 2.pngpopes rd 3.png
 

editor

hiraethified
I went to the exhibition in the Village today showing the Hondo plans for the Popes Road site (where Sports Direct and that 'Flannels' clothes shop are currently.)

I couldn't bear staying there more than a few minutes cos there was this twat selling the plans to a couple who'd arrived just before me, and he was banging on about 'revitalising the local vibrant creative industries' and 'creating permeable community spaces to enhance the productivity of the area.' Seriously, my bullshit bingo card was filled instantly so I grabbed a leaflet and left.

Basically they want to build a 21 storey tower block with various retail spaces and lashings of community-wash. A new 'public' (i.e. private) square, office space etc. It's not all bad but it's a property development after all and designed to rake in cash for Hondo. The tower will seriously dominate the centre of Brixton. Also they reckon it will "create safer neighbourhoods and natural surveillance." :hmm:

Anyway, you can see the plans here and respond to their consultation survey (which has some great leading questions, such as "do you support making our famous Brixton market a better place?"

www.yourvoicebrixton.com
View attachment 197357View attachment 197358View attachment 197360
That tower must be a candidate for Carbuncle Of The Year if it gets built. Completely out of proportion and ugly as fuck.
 

CH1

"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I went to the exhibition in the Village today showing the Hondo plans for the Popes Road site (where Sports Direct and that 'Flannels' clothes shop are currently.)

I couldn't bear staying there more than a few minutes cos there was this twat selling the plans to a couple who'd arrived just before me, and he was banging on about 'revitalising the local vibrant creative industries' and 'creating permeable community spaces to enhance the productivity of the area.' Seriously, my bullshit bingo card was filled instantly so I grabbed a leaflet and left.

Basically they want to build a 21 storey tower block with various retail spaces and lashings of community-wash. A new 'public' (i.e. private) square, office space etc. It's not all bad but it's a property development after all and designed to rake in cash for Hondo. The tower will seriously dominate the centre of Brixton. Also they reckon it will "create safer neighbourhoods and natural surveillance." :hmm:

Anyway, you can see the plans here and respond to their consultation survey (which has some great leading questions, such as "do you support making our famous Brixton market a better place?"

www.yourvoicebrixton.com
View attachment 197357View attachment 197358View attachment 197360
I went too. Funny thing is the large scale map they used in the display is well out of date. It does not include the new development know as The Edge behind the Coldharbour Lane shops. Which being the case it understates the gross over-development proposed.

The PR lady was feeding me some line about the need for shared offices for small businesses.

I think if the scheme does happen it will either go to some large second line corporate - Lidl corporate UK HQ type of thing.
Failing that they will probably wait for a few years then turn the skyscraper into high price flats - an SW9 version of Centrepoint.
 

Brixton Hatter

Home is south London mate
The PR lady was feeding me some line about the need for shared offices for small businesses.
...they will probably wait for a few years then turn the skyscraper into high price flats - an SW9 version of Centrepoint.
I did wonder this. Quite unusual for such a large development in this area to not have any residential property as part of the plan. Not beyond the realms of possibility that it would get built, then some of it converted to residential after claims of office space not being financially viable.
 

DiSkid.22

New Member
I went to the exhibition in the Village today showing the Hondo plans for the Popes Road site (where Sports Direct and that 'Flannels' clothes shop are currently.)

I couldn't bear staying there more than a few minutes cos there was this twat selling the plans to a couple who'd arrived just before me, and he was banging on about 'revitalising the local vibrant creative industries' and 'creating permeable community spaces to enhance the productivity of the area.' Seriously, my bullshit bingo card was filled instantly so I grabbed a leaflet and left.

Basically they want to build a 21 storey tower block with various retail spaces and lashings of community-wash. A new 'public' (i.e. private) square, office space etc. It's not all bad but it's a property development after all and designed to rake in cash for Hondo. The tower will seriously dominate the centre of Brixton. Also they reckon it will "create safer neighbourhoods and natural surveillance." :hmm:

Anyway, you can see the plans here and respond to their consultation survey (which has some great leading questions, such as "do you support making our famous Brixton market a better place?"

www.yourvoicebrixton.com
View attachment 197357View attachment 197358View attachment 197360
The 'view' pics prove that the project is totally outrageous. The view is HORRIBLE!!! Also, the pics of the internal 'public' space looks like the Elephant and Castle - cold, concrete, heartless - not condusive to community and creativity at all. (Open Mike Night? You're joking!!!) Compare the pic from Jack Barratt above with the pics of the internal space......... What can I say. Yuk!! Doom and Gloom. Also - re more jobs - Building jobs don't last once the building is built and we need LESS CONSUMING NOT MORE!! There is unused office space in the area already and we need to nurture present residents as opposed to attracting 'more money'. Have done the consultation survey and added a comment - similar to this one.
 

quidire

New Member
I thought about taking a look at that Lost In Brixton hipster booze bar, sorry, 'new community space.'

Then I noticed that the security were asking for ID, checking bags and then sticking a stamp on everyone going in. Fuck that.
I was wondering what sort of community space do you feel the current residents of Brixton want more of? And who should pay/own that space?
 

editor

hiraethified
I was wondering what sort of community space do you feel the current residents of Brixton want more of? And who should pay/own that space?
Before we begin, perhaps you could be upfront with your involvement with this project.
 

editor

hiraethified
Before and after pics to give an idea of the out-of-scale proportions of this project. And I don't care how many awards the architects have won, this is ugly and inappropriate for the area and will even more strain on an already overcrowded tube station.


Hondo Enterprises plan huge, ugly tower block in the centre of Brixton


Hondo Enterprises plan huge, ugly tower block in the centre of Brixton



 

quidire

New Member
Before we begin, perhaps you could be upfront with your involvement with this project.
I don't have any involvement, financial or otherwise, with the Hondo project (or really, the council either); my only touch on this is that I live in the neighbourhood, and have walked past the sports direct frequently.
 

editor

hiraethified
I was wondering what sort of community space do you feel the current residents of Brixton want more of? And who should pay/own that space?
Not sure about you, but I think of a community space as being somewhere where all elements of the community can freely gather and use as they see fit, and not be searched on entry, told they can't bring in pets, food or drink, be turned away if they're with their kids after 5pm, and have the place make so much noise that the actual local community are forced to complain.
 

quidire

New Member
Not sure about you, but I think of a community space as being somewhere where all elements of the community can freely gather and use as they see fit, and not be searched on entry, told they can't bring in pets, food or drink, be turned away if they're with their kids after 5pm, and have the place make so much noise that the actual local community are forced to complain.
I don't think [having community space that serves everyone is] very common; cricket pitches are for some people, playgrounds for others. It's okay for public infrastructure to be specialised—it often serves people better that way. As for being searched etc, do we know that's going to happen? (Also, festivals on public land, etc, do that as a matter of course)

And frankly, if you live in SW4/9, however long you've lived here or whatever you earn, you're the actual local community. I feel like many on this site attempt to "other" newer residents of our community, which isn't serving the longer-term residents either; unsurprisingly, if you tell some people they're different to the pre-existing community, and tell those new arrivals that the existing community shouldn't have to put up with new residents' wishes, you'll end up convincing new residents they have no particular reason to care about the longer-term residents either. People should model the inclusion they wish others to create; that burden is on new and longer-term residents alike.

I don't think it's much to ask to access that anyone who lives in the area has as much right to have the community reflect them as anyone else. Further, that because Brixton is a central nexus for a large part of Lambeth, that it has to serve those areas of Lambeth too (so, Brixton has to reflect Herne Hill and East Dulwich's residents as well as its own).

Are you sure it's productive to wish Brixton hadn't changed since 1995, and that newer residents would just sod off, and take their contributions (whether in terms of revenue for local businesses, time spent volunteering in the community, or their efforts to advocate for the good of the community as they see it) with them? That it what your editorial tone, here and on your website, sounds like to this new resident.
 

editor

hiraethified
And frankly, if you live in SW4/9, you're the actual local community.
And right there you've given your agenda away, thinking that Brixton is for Clapham residents. :facepalm:

Interesting to note that despite all the preconditions set on Lost In Brixton - the very preconditions that just about guarantee a vast chunk of the (poorer) locals in a wider demographic will never visit - the owners - and you - still insist that it's a 'new community space for Brixton.' It's really not, you know.

The obvious reality from its own marketing material is that it's set itself up to a be a new, on trend 'destination' for tourists and well-off (mainly new) residents pooled from a very narrow demographic. Anything that could be described as being vaguely community-based only ever happens in off peak hours, but naturally gets a full PR boost from Hondo's persuasive press arm.

What percentage of people from the local estates do you think visit Lost In Brixton?

Are you sure it's productive to wish Brixton hadn't changed since 1995, and that newer residents would just sod off, and take their contributions (whether in terms of revenue for local businesses, time spent volunteering in the community, or their efforts to advocate for the good of the community as they see it) with them? That it what your editorial tone, here and on your website, sounds like to this new resident.
I really hate it when people try to present non-existent viewpoints, particularly ones as clumsy and as dishonest as this one. Don't do it please.
 

quidire

New Member
And right there you've given your agenda away, thinking that Brixton is for Clapham residents. :facepalm:
Yeah…I live off Ferndale a five minute walk to the Brixton tube station, and my post code is SW4. Look at a map.

Interesting to note that despite all the preconditions set on Lost In Brixton - the very preconditions that just about guarantee a vast chunk of the (poorer) locals in a wider demographic will never visit - the owners - and you - still insist that it's a 'new community space for Brixton.' It's really not, you know.
I was making a broader point about new development, and specifically thought we were discussing the community space in the new proposed/approved Hondo project. Lost in Brixton isn't my cup of tea I think, though having never been there, I wouldn't know. That said, if we're discussing private businesses, it's as much of a community amenity as e.g. Effra Social or wherever.

The obvious reality from its own marketing material is that it's set itself up to a be a new, on trend 'destination' for tourists and well-off (mainly new) residents pooled from a very narrow demographic. Anything that could be described as being vaguely community-based only ever happens in off peak hours, but naturally gets a full PR boost from Hondo's persuasive press arm.
Really, tourists don't come that often to Brixton. It's hard enough getting people who live north of the river to do so. And here we go again, about newer residents. What's the cut off, income-wise, above which you're not worth serving?

What percentage of people from the local estates do you think visit Lost In Brixton?
Hell, I don't go there; that doesn't mean it's not a public amenity. It takes those people who patronise it away from where I do go, which I appreciate. So I benefit too.

I really hate it when people try to present non-existent viewpoints, particularly ones as clumsy and as dishonest as this one. Don't do it please.
What's dishonest here? This is my viewpoint, thank you.
 

editor

hiraethified
That said, if we're discussing private businesses, it's as much of a community amenity as e.g. Effra Social or wherever.
Oooh look at you bringing up the Effra Social: the one place I happen to DJ at. What a coincidence!

Of course, the blindingly obvious difference that you seem unable to grasp is that the Effra Social is a pub. It makes no claims whatsoever to be a 'new community space for Brixton,' and certainly hasn't hired an expensive PR team to shout out such a dubious boast.
Really, tourists don't come that often to Brixton. It's hard enough getting people who live north of the river to do so. And here we go again, about newer residents. What's the cut off, income-wise, above which you're not worth serving?
How long do you say you've lived here? Brixton is a massively popular place to visit and is jammed full of free-spending tourists on weekends - and that's the demographic many of the new businesses directly cater to (Pop Brixton, Brixton Village, Lost In Brixton etc).

And Hondo has proactively been taking out full page adverts in Time Out to further promote their tourist attractions, while their PR team successfully bagged prestigious reviews for Lost In Brixton in distinctly upmarket publications like Tatler, Harper's Bazaar, GQ. Vogue, FT and the Sunday Times. To suggest Brixton is struggling to attract enough people coming in to spend money means that you really know very little about the place.
 

quidire

New Member
Can I assume you concede the points I made above that you're not responding to? ;)

Oooh look at you bringing up the Effra Social: the one place I happen to DJ at. What a coincidence!
Not at all, I was trying to make my point relatable to you.

Of course, the blindingly obvious difference that you seem unable to grasp is that the Effra Social is a pub. It makes no claims whatsoever to be a 'new community space for Brixton,' and certainly hasn't hired an expensive PR team to shout out such a dubious boast.
Toh-may-toe, toe-mah-toe. If they called it a pub, would you be less bitter about its existence? Also, is the existence of a PR team specifically alienating to you?

How long do you say you've lived here? Brixton is a massively popular place to visit and is jammed full of free-spending tourists on weekends - and that's the demographic many of the new businesses directly cater to (Pop Brixton, Brixton Village, Lost In Brixton etc).
All that spending, and those businesses, providing jobs for people who we can assume don't have better options (or they'd take them…). They may or may not love those jobs, but presumptively the loss of them (or lack those jobs ever having existed) would be worse for these workers. Oughtn't we celebrate that free-spending crowd—which I still doubt are tourists, based on my, yes, time in the neighbourhood. We're not getting a lot of e.g. Chinese and Argentinian visitors…unless…is anyone who visits from outside Lambeth is a tourist?

And Hondo has proactively been taking out full page adverts in Time Out to further promote their tourist attractions, while their PR team successfully bagged prestigious reviews for Lost In Brixton in distinctly upmarket publications like Tatler, Harper's Bazaar, GQ. Vogue, FT and the Sunday Times. To suggest Brixton is struggling to attract enough people coming in to spend money means that you really know very little about the place.
I never suggested that, though I invite you to quote where I did. What I said in passing is that I don't think many are [international] tourists.

However…

I'd really like to hear how long one must live in Brixton, and/or below what amount one must earn, before one's preferences for our community matter, in your view.
 

quidire

New Member
Aren't your pubs and clubs good enough for you?
:D
I don't know about their pubs, but sometimes you just don't want to bother transferring onto the Victoria line for one stop, so I'd like to preserve the right to use their tube stop from time to time…
 

editor

hiraethified
Not at all, I was trying to make my point relatable to you.
Why do you think manufacturing a meaningless comparison would make your point 'relatable' to me?
The Effra Social is nothing like Hondo's multi-billion backed proposals, and it makes no dodgy claims to be a 'new community space' - so why are you even bringing it up?

Perhaps you thought you were clever trying to make it personal by bringing up the Effra, but I do find it strange why a new poster would know so much about me, given that there's no immediately obvious link.
If they called it a pub, would you be less bitter about its existence? Also, is the existence of a PR team specifically alienating to you?
They called it a 'community space' when it is clearly not one. Quite why you choose to defend this obvious exaggeration and echo the line of the PR is quite beyond me. Oh wait... :D
All that spending, and those businesses, providing jobs for people who we can assume don't have better options (or they'd take them…).
Ah the old, 'we should doff our caps to the rich folks and and be grateful for them creating jobs' line. Hondo - and their multi billionaire US investment backers - aren't here to create jobs out of the goodness of their hearts. They're here to make as much money as they can for themselves, exploiting the workers and rewarding them with the minimum possible in return. That's why they need PR companies to spin their ventures into sounding like they're here for the community. And if they pay a penny over the lowest permissible wage they'll make sure everyone hears of that too.

Oughtn't we celebrate that free-spending crowd—which I still doubt are tourists, based on my, yes, time in the neighbourhood. We're not getting a lot of e.g. Chinese and Argentinian visitors…unless…is anyone who visits from outside Lambeth is a tourist?
Remind me of the tangible benefits of tourists visiting Lost In Brixton to the residents of the locals estates - some of which are the most deprived in London?

I'd really like to hear how long one must live in Brixton, and/or below what amount one must earn, before one's preferences for our community matter, in your view.
You're being very forthright in what you think is good for the community of Brixton, so it's reasonable to ask how long you've been part of that community. Are you in Brixton now?
 

djdando

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to say two things:

1) Editors tone, as per, is just boring
2) Don't dislike the design at all. That part of Brixton already has mass and height (International House, Brixton Square, Viaduct, The Edge, Barrier Block). We need office space and inward investment for sure.
 

editor

hiraethified
This reader comment from the Buzz article absolutely nails it:

“Your groceries aren’t providing enough return on our investment so we’re going to build a 21-storey safe-space as a beacon for those we’ve identified as more profitable. And absolutely no way will we use a select few traders selling fabrics and fruits as window dressing for visitors to instagram as they walk past (“oh look that crabs still alive, how fun/all those wigs, can you imagine”). And of course they’ll be pop-up yoga classes so that’s community events covered”
 

cd4411

New Member
Hey guys question from a non-resident but whom have spent few nights in the lovely Southwyck House - what are people's views on having adult education centre like morley's college instead of this? Will it actually benefit people if it is more inclusive and engaging? As Brixton has changed a lot I found it is hard to integrate different generations somehow... any thoughts on that?
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to say two things:

1) Editors tone, as per, is just boring
2) Don't dislike the design at all. That part of Brixton already has mass and height (International House, Brixton Square, Viaduct, The Edge, Barrier Block). We need office space and inward investment for sure.
Who is the "we"?
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
Hey guys question from a non-resident but whom have spent few nights in the lovely Southwyck House - what are people's views on having adult education centre like morley's college instead of this? Will it actually benefit people if it is more inclusive and engaging? As Brixton has changed a lot I found it is hard to integrate different generations somehow... any thoughts on that?
Brixton hasnt changed that much.

It stil is in the top twenty percent most deprived Council Wards in England and Wales.

So when one says its changed a lot. It has but not for the benefit of the majority of Coldharbour Ward.
 
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