Brixton venues requiring photo ID for entry

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by editor, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Perhaps you should step out of this discussion because it seems increasingly obvious that you're not actually interested in adding anything of worth.
    Greebo likes this.
  2. Rushy

    Rushy AKA some / certain posters

    In NYC I was intending to celebrate completing the marathon with a meal and a pint or two in a pub but was refused because my UK passport was not an approved form of identity. Mind you, that was 1998. Things may be different now :D.

    We did blag it later in the evening. My mate had two sips before quite literally falling asleep with his face in a bowl of pasta.
    Greebo and Mr Retro like this.
  3. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    That would include Lord Goddard back in the 1950 case I posted about earlier.

    Here is what he said in his judgement.

    The man who refused to show the police his identity card was a Liberal. What underlies this is a view that the individual should be able to go about his/her business without intrusion by the State or its agents. ( The police have access to card scanning data in bars btw).Its a position on the liberty of the individual. An old school Liberal one. Its not conspiralunacy its a serious take on the relationship between the individual and the State.

    Another one is Blunkett when the Labour Party was pushing the idea of identity cards. He saw it as as not just about proving identity but to bolster the idea of citizenship. A rather authoritarian socialist one that can be traced back to Fabians like Webb.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
    Greebo, friendofdorothy and editor like this.
  4. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    This is not about supplying peoples real needs like clothing and food through individuals making and exchanging them in the market.

    This is about the State making people require this. This as Brixton Hatter points out done incrementally without proper debate.
    Greebo, friendofdorothy and editor like this.
  5. madolesance

    madolesance Well-Known Member

    So does anyone have a solution to the problem of some form of identity being needed to gain entry into all the bars and clubs that have been forced/ introduced it them selfs?
  6. editor

    editor hiraethified

    One way is to get to know the bouncers so they don't ask you any more. Or work there in some capacity :)
    Greebo likes this.
  7. discobastard

    discobastard edited

    Which is something only available to a very privileged few, less a solution, sadly.
  8. editor

    editor hiraethified

    It's really not hard to get to know a bouncer. I did it in one venue in Brixton (which I had no work connection with) and have never had to drag out ID since. Good job too because I'm really not into taking ID out with me.
    Greebo likes this.
  9. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    Greebo and Gramsci like this.
  10. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    sprightly? that sounds like I'm in my dotage. You won't get round me like that young man!
    -stern look-
    Greebo likes this.
  11. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    Thats hardly practical for those of us who don't get to go out as often as you.

    I don't think I'll look to you for career advice either, thanks.
    Greebo likes this.
  12. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I wasn't offering you any advice. I wasn't even talking to you, so why the stroppy answer? :(
  13. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    I thought we were all in this conversation? And I did say thank you.

    and I'm menopausal and I feel like being stroppy, so there.

    ...stern look....
    Greebo likes this.
  14. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Same thing happened to me buying hash cakes in Colorado in the summer.

    Fucking police state I tell you.
  15. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    You believe, you cannot prove it. A lot of surgeries in the Brixon area want to see photo ID plus proof of address when you register, even though it's not offically required by the national system.

    At the endoscopy unit at St Thomas's yesterday, VP saw a man being asked to prove that he was entitled to NHS treatment. His son produced naturalisation papers with the wry comment of "this happens more often than you'd believe".
    Gramsci likes this.
  16. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    In the 90s the lads mags used to be full of adverts for companies selling dodgy-looking ID/ age proof cards. None of them recognised by any government department or police force of course. I doubt a single person ever managed to gain access to an over-18s venue with one of those, but clearly a lot of fools forked out £20 to buy one.
    Greebo likes this.
  17. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Bit more reading for you from Liberty

    I agree with Liberty about WW2. People fought for these rights.

    To add the people who finally ended New Labours bid to make us all have ID cards was the well known lefties Clegg and Cameron. Oh and the PM who abolished the WW2 ID system was Churchill. He was never keen on them.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
    Greebo and editor like this.
  18. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    My friend who rents out her old flat was complaining to me that its now a requirement of landlords to make sure the people they rent to are not "illegal"immigrants.

    There is an obnoxious move by the State to make third parties police immigration.
    Greebo likes this.
  19. Tom Kenny

    Tom Kenny New Member

    I don't think that's fair. My family, friends and I all have to live in society as well, and I have no desire for us all to be required to show our papers at every turn. What I would very much like to see is a more open and fully-informed debate about ID checking, and more transparent regulatory & licensing decision-making processes and communications to customers regarding electronic scanning machines. I've set out some of my thoughts on this below.

    But before I come to that, please have a look at this video: FinovateEurope 2016 - IDscan Biometrics - Finovate

    It's a presentation by the CEO of ID scanning terminal supplier IDScan: Tamlyn Thompson.

    At 6:36 he demonstrates how IDScan's software can electronically read a driving licence, then within 5 seconds produce a Know Your Customer (KYC) and Anti Money Laundering (AML) Report on the licence-holder. The Report includes Land Registry details, Electoral Roll, Birth Marriage & Death Index, a Crime Report, ID Scan Register (whatever that is), Utility Check and Sanction Check (whatever that is).

    IDScan's software can access all that information about you simply by scanning your driving licence, and - I suspect - a good deal of it by scanning your passport. Were you aware of that the last time you had your ID scanned at a pub / bar / club? Did you agree to it? How do you feel about it now?

    In my view:

    * When the Licensing Committee require a venue to deploy ID scanners, the Committee should be obliged to provide an unambiguous and evidenced justification for that requirement (e.g. "to help verify that customers are of legal age"; and / or "to deter criminal activity"; and / or "to share information about excluded customers with third parties including other venues and the police");

    * Before any customer's ID is scanned, the venue should be obliged to communicate to the customer the purpose(s) for which the scanned data is to be used, by whom and for what period, and to obtain the customer's consent for such use. That includes both purposes required by the Licensing Committee and any other purposes (e.g. sale of data to third parties, marketing activities);

    * The venue and / or the scanning machine supplier should be inspected and penalised for any use of scanned data in a manner to which the customer has not consented. For example, a venue cannot pretend that it is scanning ID merely to help verify that its customers are of legal age, then store that data, use it to access other data and drive marketing activities. Trading Standards could check compliance with this, including carrying out "test purchasing".
  20. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Coincidentally I tried to get into a nightclub in the West End last night (The Roxy in Rathbone Place) and couldn't because I had no photo ID. They seemed to be taking a photo of punters going in as well as scanning their ID.

    They had very officious security on the door who wanted all of my party to wait for management to come and talk to us. So we went elsewhere and they lost 5 paying customers.
    Greebo and editor like this.
  21. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I have no desire whatsoever to have to produce a paid-for ID card every time I want to go to the pub, club, restaurant, but that's the very thing you're pushing for, because your business model depends on the growth of compulsory ID checking.

    I don't want my private data going to private companies like you, or being subjected to inspection by bouncers and anyone else who sees fit to demand to see it in exchange for entry to a place I want to go to, neither do I want to see my details going into innumerable privately held databases (which is what your ID card encourages).

    Moreover, in this ID card laden future, innocent punters can find themselves excluded from bars and clubs on the whims of individual bouncers with a grudge or in cases of mistaken identity. Far from 'empowering' anyone, your ID card future means that people will enjoy less freedom (see post above) and also increase their chances of their private data being hacked and shared from multiple sources.
    Greebo likes this.
  22. Tom Kenny

    Tom Kenny New Member

    Actually Civilian Card would very much like to offer a card that proved merely that the cardholder (whose photo would appear on it) was over 18 years of age: no name, no date of birth, no contact details. After all, the law does not require the vendor of age-restricted products & services to verify your identity, merely your age.

    The reason that we don't is that such a card would be no use in practice. That's because retailers, door staff, trading standards officials and police are all trained to recognise only the "mandatory standard" 18+ PASS card design which includes the cardholder's date of birth.

    Charge half the price? I'm afraid £7.50 off with discount code URBAN750 is the best I can do ;)
  23. editor

    editor hiraethified

    If you try to plug your products one more time you will be banned. You have been warned enough times. You are welcome to discuss the issues around ID cards, but endlessly spamming your own products is not on. Unlike your business, urban75 is entirely non profit, so you trying to use it as a free billboard really grates.
    Greebo likes this.
  24. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

    'Wanna buy an ID card, Guv, I'll knock off £7.50.....getcha in the club....'
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  25. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    It's a long time since I've seen a spiv, even a fictional one. :D
    Nanker Phelge likes this.
  26. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

    Tommy's a virtual a coat full of ID cards...and his mother loves him...
    Greebo likes this.
  27. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    Then his mother ought to be ashamed of herself for bringing him into the world. :(
  28. Rushy

    Rushy AKA some / certain posters

    Unfortunately every "debate" around these parts requires a villain and you are designated ID ogre. Attempts to argue your corner will be utterly futile. It's easy to forget that most readers don't post or even"like" so the views expressed on here are not necessarily very representative (although some will argue that everyone they have ever spoken to anywhere agrees with them).

    Where ID scanning is imposed, I agree with your three points above. Licensing do generally need evidence (how well considered it is is another matter) and unnecessary or punitive conditions can be challenged. In practice I think many operators just find it easier to comply.

    Interesting idea regarding the nameless cards. Users would still need to be somehow identifiable though (perhaps not to the venue) as the purpose of these schemes is security as well as age.
    Tom Kenny, Greebo and discobastard like this.
  29. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

    That's mean...
    Greebo likes this.
  30. Greebo

    Greebo 'scuse me, Mrs May, can I have my country back? R.I.P.

    Tough on spivs, tough on the causes of spivs.

    But you're right (and a better person than me); his mother probably did her best, only to see him led astray.

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