Brixton Tate Gardens reopening celebrations

[Gramsci]

Strangers in the city: the structure and significance of children's fears of urban outsiders [WARNING - contains both psychological jargon
and discussion of Freud's notion of the unheimlich ]

Has anyone ever posted a link to this before - seems that this psychologist did some of her fieldwork at Brixton Oval in the context of how local kids reacted to the drinkers and drug dealers.

Looks a very interesting paper .I printed it off to read later.Might be a bit "postmodern" for some people here

 

[Gramsci]

her wallets are one of the most popular things at the fair for sure.
will let her know you gave her a shout-out
she's an argentinean designer based up in hackney...

That was me.Do I get any freebies

 

[Gramsci]

Ah... just looking up Brixton Forum and on the Friends of Brixton website came across this:

http://www.brixtonsociety.org.uk/Friendsgroup/index.html

Which must be it...

what about The Brixton Forum.... I'm still looking but do they have a website that explains what they're all about?

Details of their meetings are on the Lambeth website.Cant find specific page for them.They are different from Area Committees.BAC is made of of local Councilors.The BAF is made of residents.Their still is a Town Centre Management made of of Officers attached to the BAF.

The BAF is now underfunded.It was brought in by the last Labour administration.The LD brought in Area Committees but didnt close the Area Forums.

So you can end up going to even more meetings. Not a good way to manage residents time.

To check for BAC and BAF meetings go to Community involvement on the Lambeth homepage and click in Events and meetings or Consultation

www.lambeth.gov.uk/

 

[Gramsci]

Was his anger just because Henry Tate is a dead white European male?

Although the whole sugar industry is tainted by the slave trade, Henry Tate came into sugar refining (from grocery) long after the abolition of slavery. The firm of Tate & Lyle was formed in 1921 - almost twenty years after his death, and they didn't move into direct ownership of Jamaican and Trinidadian plantations until even later.

Possibly also because he was a fat capitalist who made a fortune out of cheap labour.Tate was involved in the industry before 1921.Even if he didnt directly control indentured or cheap labour in the colonies he was part of the industry.

 

[Gramsci]

Anyway, I've got a slightly unusual idea for the square - install fountains based on those in Somerset House. Kids love 'em, they'd be a clean, low maintenance landmark and would liven up the place no end!

Their are also some at the Royal Academy.Sonds like a good idea to me.Especially as the Council are promoting the Square(s) as "international".

 

[Gramsci]

Strangers in the city: the structure and significance of children's fears of urban outsiders [WARNING - contains both psychological jargon
and discussion of Freud's notion of the unheimlich ]

Has anyone ever posted a link to this before - seems that this psychologist did some of her fieldwork at Brixton Oval in the context of how local kids reacted to the drinkers and drug dealers.

Interesting paper.She did some fieldwork at the Tate Gardens.There are several points the paper makes:

1)Children use the same language as adults but the meanings are different.
2)The fears of outsiders are not based on rational fears.More children die/injured in road accidents than are killed/abused by adults.
3)Childrens making sense of the world and how to behave in it depend on responsible adults.When they see adults behave in ways that are not considered socially reponsible they can become anxious.The "fear" is related to the visiblity of behiavours that they have been taught to repress.(this is where Freud comes in).

This is not to say she is advocating the clearing public spaces of "undesirables"."Undesirables" are the "Other" against which "normal" people define themselves.Using Freud these projections of parts of ourselves onto the "Abject" Other.Within public space its a political and historical issue about who is defined as "Other" to be feared and removed.The "undesirables" remind us (unconsciously) of aspects of ourselves that have been repressed.

 

[Gramsci]

Of particular interest are these two quotes from her paper:

"The tension between public space as a meeting place,whether for pleasure or for resistance,and the preferance of authority for it to be treated as a space for moving through,is an enduring tension.It is a conflict that has,however,been largely won by authority.The discursive practises through which authority has accomplished domination of public space include surveillance,policing and town planning."

Seems to me the above quote is an accurate description of what "authority" has done to the Tate Gardens.

"That city life is replete with difference is a view that is challenged by a great deal of urban sociology.The impression cities give of linguistic,cultural,ethnic and social diversity belies a tendency for urban space to be coded and divided...the city sustains the human need for generating community and exclusion,even in contexts that would seem to deny the possibility."

I thought this was interesting as it goes against liberal commonsense and a lot of the waffle one gets from the Council.The Council go on in their literature about "Diversity".But as the above quote implies public space is always contested and argued over.Whether that is between different groups or social groups and "authority".So this suggests their are no clear cut answers to who uses public space and what for.

Though I still agree with this paper that its swung so far in favour of "authority" that public space is being neutered of freedom to "transgress".

 

[IntoStella]

Their are also some at the Royal Academy.Sonds like a good idea to me.Especially as the Council are promoting the Square(s) as "international".

The ones in Hammersmith Lyric Square still aren't working.

There was a noisy and prolonged altercation in Rushcroft Road at 7 o clock on Sunday morning and a police van drove straight across the newly flattened Tate desert to get there. Maybe that's what is it's really for.

 

[IntoStella]

Oh yeah, I just remembered I was going to post about this.

Some of the empty flowerbeds have, according to the NIMBY fans of the scheme, been planted with seeds.

This is a pile of crap. Those beds are full of compacted, ground up rubble, the filthiest, lowest grade shit imaginable, and nothing would germinate in there.

 

[lang rabbie]

Oh yeah, I just remembered I was going to post about this.

Some of the empty flowerbeds have, according to the NIMBY fans of the scheme, been planted with seeds.

This is a pile of crap. Those beds are full of compacted, ground up rubble, the filthiest, lowest grade shit imaginable, and nothing would germinate in there.

I'd heard summer-flowering bulbs, but it all sounds very confused.

 

[Ol Nick]

The problem with the public spaces in this country is not people drinking or durg dealing it's that people have got too used to staying in doors - infront of their tvs and computers.

Nah it's not the play stations.

It's the drug dealing in front of the cinema.

And the people pissing in the doorways of Morley's.

And the people shooting up on the benches in Trinity Gardens.

And the people smoking crack in the phones boxes outside the tube.

And the litter and the needles and swearing and the spitting all over central Brixton.

Public spaces that avoid all these don't have a problem. Look at Brockwell Park. Public spaces that do -- Tunstall Road, the area outside KFC, Tate Gardens -- do.

 

[Gramsci]

People pissing in doorways-due to lack of public toilets

Crack/Heroin taking-if these drugs were decriminalised so doctors could presribe Heroin etc(the old British system in the 60s)then the dealers and crime would be cut out.Also have places where people can take drugs under supervision.The hard drug population in Britain in the 60s was stabalised by Herion prescribing doctors-before the country went down the road of American style prohibition.

Rubbish-less wasteful packaging/more street cleaners.

 

[thedaddyj]

People pissing in doorways-due to lack of public toilets

Crack/Heroin taking-if these drugs were decriminalised so doctors could presribe Heroin etc(the old British system in the 60s)then the dealers and crime would be cut out.Also have places where people can take drugs under supervision.The hard drug population in Britain in the 60s was stabalised by Herion prescribing doctors-before the country went down the road of American style prohibition.

Rubbish-less wasteful packaging/more street cleaners.

someone mentioned tunstall road, tell me about it. the bit at the beginning of my street is fucking disgusting. I'm all for needle exchanges, they are neccesary if we are going to stop HIV becoming endemic among intravenous drug users, but for fucks sake, does it have to be at the end of my fucking road? can't they have somewhere indoors where they can do it? They get new needles and then jack up in the phone box adjacent. then there's the doorway where people constantly piss turning the end of my road into a fucking urinal. i have to walk along that every day. whatever happened to those french style pissoirs they were going to plonk in London streets. The reason people piss everywhere is you are told you cannot pee in pubs, restaurants etc unless you spend money, and there are no public toilets.

Brixton high road has some big problems. I smoke weed and take other drugs too, but i don't enjoy having 15 people ask me if I want to buy skunk in 100 yards. I'm not in favour of sticking people in nick for minor drug offences, but surely something can be done to remove what amounts to a minor menace.

There are many wonderful things about Brixton, the mix of cultures, the market, and the hurly-burly pace of life, but there are also some serious issues which need addressing. Generally I don't feel threatened anywhere in London, but at times there is a slight edge to brixton I feel a little nervous around.

I'm not some dickhead yuppie who wants to sanitise everything, I'm a working class lad who grew up in and around hammersmith and Shepherd's Bush, which has a similar vibe, or rather used to before it turned into a gigantic all bar one. I don't want that to happen here, but I think there are things which need to be done.

Good forum this by the way.

Tate gardens is fucking ridiculous, they may as well have saved themselves the money and just bulldozed the fucking thing, it's just a gigantic paving slab with a statue in the middle. what a waste of cash.

 

[Gramsci]

I agree about needle boxes.It would be much better to have places where addicts can go to jack up-this does happen abroad.This will only happen if hard drugs are decriminalised to allow trained professionals to prescribe them to addicts.

I must say since the Tate Gardens has been cleared all thats happened is that the dealers hang around the bus stops.

 

[editor]

I agree about needle boxes.

There's a needle box charmingly affixed to my wall.

Most of the junkies are too fucked/can't even be arsed to walk a few metres to dispose of them safely. Can't say I'm too chuffed to have a needle box right next to an area where kids often play.

 

[Rushy]

What friends meeting? Is this the same as or different to Brixton Forum... and how do you get involved in that too? Anyone know?

The friends group was set up (but not run) by the Lambeth Council chap responsible for the work on Tate Gardens - his name is Halit Ece. He set the group up because the works he wanted to carry out on the gardens needed to have some sort of public consultation. As soon as he realised that the new Friends group were not going to rubber stamp his ill thought out proposals he bulldozered them through with a few concessions. IMO he is an aggressive politician.

The group was pulled together randomly at a Brixton Society meeting where people had come to find out what was happening with the Central Square project. Considering the way it was pulled together it seems to me to have remarkably good cross section of people from the local community who are all very keen to see the area improved (and before anyone cuts in screaming about yuppie gentrification I'd suggest you go along to a meeting).

The group is very new and small but looks like it will increase its influence on decisions regarding that area - I expect it will become vociferously involved in Central Square. The group includes reps from the Tate Library whose interest in the area is obvious and IMO this also gives additional credibility within the council because it shows that the group is a partnership between local people and services.

So, if you want to het involved I suggest heading along to a meeting - gajingirl has posted the date and location.

If you want to make a complaint about the way the the work has been carried out to date I would complain directly to Halit Ece on 020 7926 0394 or [email protected]. Or you could pop in and see him at home in (IIRC)Islington.

By the way - I love the idea about Somerset House style fountains. I suggested the same thing to the Gross Max chap a couple of weeks ago at the Windrush Square event and they seemed quite positive about it as a proposal - might be worth writing to them directly?

 

[BrixiSteve]

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the plans for the development contain an all together different sort of water 'feature'. I think it was the sort where the water just pours into grills in the ground, thereby leaving no exposed pools of water to deposit needles, urine or unfortunate toddlers....! Does anyone know if Effra Rd is closing to traffic....?

 

[Gramsci]

Ive finally got around to looking at the planning application history of the Tate Gardens on the Council website.All I can find is three applications dated 1997 which were all withdrawn.

Well Ill have to check but this if this is correct the removal of the fountain etc was done without planning permission.It possible to in a planning enforcement form to get the plannignoffice to look into it.I may do this.

If the works on the Tate Gardens were down-at it looks like it unless the Lambeth website is not up to date-with planning permission then Im somewhat surprised.

 

[mysterybadger]

Tate fountain

The fountain was supposed to be set aside for later use but I'm pretty sure I saw it 'dismantled' using a JCB jackhammer

You're right, the fountain was completely trashed, a pointless waste. I can't say I liked it but my wife was really upset.

The removal of the benches seems to be a counsel of despair, a non-solution to a problem which penalises everyone.

By the same logic you could end street robbery in Brixton High Street by widening the roads and removing the pavements. After all, no-one ever gets mugged on the M25.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Wife?
rofpmsl

 

[lang rabbie]

rofpmsl

ITMA ?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I think so.

 

[Bob]

Oh dear. We've got a nasty infestation of acronyms.

 

[ats]

2. Get the benches back - the council have got the budget to do it, and assured the friends group they would ASAP - When? Why not this month?

3. Make sure the benches are good ones - stop the council from putting in uncomfortable ones/ones you can't lie down on.

If you're arguing the case for benches, you could try citing the Disability Discrimination Act. Lack of seating is a serious barrier for frail and elderly people wanting to use any space. Some people need to take breaks and get the weight off their feet at quite frequent intervals. (And if you're really going for this pm me and I'll give you detailed references on that from some research for the Disability Rights commission that I project managed recently.)

So if the council are setting this up as a space to be used for public events, they are discriminating against those people if they fail to provide seating for them. Which is illegal. QED.

 

[Gramsci]

The friends group was set up (but not run) by the Lambeth Council chap responsible for the work on Tate Gardens - his name is Halit Ece. He set the group up because the works he wanted to carry out on the gardens needed to have some sort of public consultation. As soon as he realised that the new Friends group were not going to rubber stamp his ill thought out proposals he bulldozered them through with a few concessions. IMO he is an aggressive politician.

If you want to make a complaint about the way the the work has been carried out to date I would complain directly to Halit Ece on 020 7926 0394 or [email protected]. Or you could pop in and see him at home in (IIRC)Islington.

QUOTE]

The planning office has got back to me and said they are looking into the Tate Gardens.They didnt say whether I was correct that the works were done without planning permission.I take it Halit Ece would have been the officer who would have put in the planning application?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

ITMA ?

Apologies...I wuz wronger than a wrongy wrong thing.