Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
Ciders and tractors! LOL!bristle-krs said:
Brixton riot, 25 years on
- Thread starter Stobart Stopper
- Start date
newbie
undisambiguated
Stobart Stopper said:
The sus law didn't continue, and that was massively important. At this distance I can't remember exactly when it was abolished, but it represented a major difference between programmed & individual oppression. How much it was used in other parts of London I don't really know, but locally it was at the heart of the changes.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
What I mean is, I don't think Scarman's findings made much difference to the way that the average copper thought about black people back then. The racism didn't diminish, they still treated black people like shit. One report by one man didn't change the way those police officers behaved, they just made a greater effort to hide it. The intent was still there.
Yeah, it changed. Not as far as it needed to for sure, but Scarman definitely started a process of change which was then kicked along again by Macpherson. As a result of Scarman a process of cultural change was undertaken with all sorts of workshops, training and the like. They had some effect and the Met in the 90s was very different from the Met in 1981. That said, there were still significant numbers of inapproriate activities and beliefs. Macpherson recognised this in his report and a new round of cultural change activities were undertaken (mainly the Community and Race Relations workshops). The Met now is different again and, if you compared it with the Met in 1981 you really would see a major difference. Again though, there is still more to do.
Anyone who has studied cultural change in large organisations will tell you that it is difficult to achieve and always takes a long time. The police are trying, as are many other public sector organisations. Some major private sector corporations are, in comparison, still in the dark ages.
butchersaprons, I don't think I could really disagree much with your last summary of how Scarman was appointed, etc. I still think he went further than was anticipated however (as did Macpherson). You say "But also there was a need to keep the Police themselves onside, to make them aware that some things were going to have to change without completely alienating them and driving them to resist any new policies." . I think that is essential - policing isn't one of those things which society can do without, even for a short period, so knocking it down and starting from scratch was not an option. Change will always be more likely if those who need to change recognise why.
Anyone who has studied cultural change in large organisations will tell you that it is difficult to achieve and always takes a long time. The police are trying, as are many other public sector organisations. Some major private sector corporations are, in comparison, still in the dark ages.
butchersaprons, I don't think I could really disagree much with your last summary of how Scarman was appointed, etc. I still think he went further than was anticipated however (as did Macpherson). You say "But also there was a need to keep the Police themselves onside, to make them aware that some things were going to have to change without completely alienating them and driving them to resist any new policies." . I think that is essential - policing isn't one of those things which society can do without, even for a short period, so knocking it down and starting from scratch was not an option. Change will always be more likely if those who need to change recognise why.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
It's a shame they didn't let Scarmen do a more wide-ranging review of the police in London at that time and by that I mean corruption, alot of it at the highest level, then we might not have had all that bollocks with Operation Countryman. Nothing I hate more than a bent cop. That lot took it to whole new limits. Things are better now, alot better. I just think that Scarman didn't go far enough, at the time.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
right-but that was the whole problem - Scarman, v mildly good news, was made to look good by the near-total official indifference of what went before. Scarman only scores a 7/8 by comparison with the pitiful 'attempts' (not!) to face police racism, council failings, housing and employment issues of before; but a '3' in objective terms. and what he did was so overdue.CK1977 said:
A few thoughts..
I moved to brixton in 74. Quickly becoming part of the villa rd squatting movement.
We slashed and burned our way through the political sub-culture aided and abetted by
the "usual suspects". In the process causing some good things that hopefully have helped the good people of brixton.
This "slashing and burning" came to an end in and around 78, when the "services" began to realize that a policy of containment was needed quickly in brixton and other areas in london that were getting "uppity"
The feeling in brixton/london from 78 on was like a cauldron boiling, you knew something was going to happen. it was inevitable.
After the notting hill riots and the "Grunwicks" protests,the police presence on the streets of brixton began in earnest. If you were known to the police as being part of some group or other you were either watched or covert attempts were made to "turn you".
The jamaican community had by this time had enough of the entire "ting".
The older members who had come to brixton as immmigrant labour were watching as the "youth" became more and more dis-enfranchised and angry.
there was no work, no respect and no fore-seeable change,this coupled with the scientific approach to the problem taken by the "services" i.e "Starve and Contain the organism,then watch as it feeds on itself, then control the resulting by-product". these ingredients thrown into the simmering cauldron of brixton/london became the recipe that helped make the riots all but inevitable.
I left brixton six months before the riots on an extended world tour and have never made it back..
Perhaps its time.
I moved to brixton in 74. Quickly becoming part of the villa rd squatting movement.
We slashed and burned our way through the political sub-culture aided and abetted by
the "usual suspects". In the process causing some good things that hopefully have helped the good people of brixton.
This "slashing and burning" came to an end in and around 78, when the "services" began to realize that a policy of containment was needed quickly in brixton and other areas in london that were getting "uppity"
The feeling in brixton/london from 78 on was like a cauldron boiling, you knew something was going to happen. it was inevitable.
After the notting hill riots and the "Grunwicks" protests,the police presence on the streets of brixton began in earnest. If you were known to the police as being part of some group or other you were either watched or covert attempts were made to "turn you".
The jamaican community had by this time had enough of the entire "ting".
The older members who had come to brixton as immmigrant labour were watching as the "youth" became more and more dis-enfranchised and angry.
there was no work, no respect and no fore-seeable change,this coupled with the scientific approach to the problem taken by the "services" i.e "Starve and Contain the organism,then watch as it feeds on itself, then control the resulting by-product". these ingredients thrown into the simmering cauldron of brixton/london became the recipe that helped make the riots all but inevitable.
I left brixton six months before the riots on an extended world tour and have never made it back..
Perhaps its time.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, it was a class riot. As were the rest of them You're correct.
respect accepted..
If you read my first post you will see I am no stranger.. the second post was somewhat "tounge-in-cheek"..
It would be interesting to hear from people from that era though.
you never know, stange things have been known to happen in cyberspace..
number 21
If you read my first post you will see I am no stranger.. the second post was somewhat "tounge-in-cheek"..
It would be interesting to hear from people from that era though.
you never know, stange things have been known to happen in cyberspace..
number 21
To be fair we had met her briefly in the pub once and she turned out to be lovely once she had moved in.
