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Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Summer 2019

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editor

hiraethified
Leaving the Ed out of this I find its often the Afro Carribbean resident complaining the new demographic. Specifically about the new monied white demographic. Who they feel are ultimately going to replace them in the Brixton area.

The Afro Carribbean community here being mainly black working class.
Funnily enough, I just bumped into two separate groups of people, both of whom had lots to say about the image I posted.

Amazingly, none of those comments were about criticising me or rushing to the defence of the poor unrecognisable suited men; instead they wanted to talk about what the photo represented to them and what they felt were unwelcome changes happening in Brixton.
 

GarveyLives

Well-Known Member
Coldharbour Lane remains closed off after 54-year old man stabbed to death on Sat 29th June 2019

"Coldharbour Lane still closed this morning"
"Sure is, I live within the cordon and I hope I don't have any problem getting in and out this morning"
"Still closed now. I understand that a crime scene needs to be protected for evidence, but this seems to be taking an awful long time and I haven't seen any activity in the street at all."
"TFL reporting buses 345, 45, 35 back to normal route and Coldharbour Lane open"
Update: Brixton’s Coldharbour Lane remains closed after Saturday’s murder. Major bus disruption in the area

The member of one of Brixton communities who was killed in Brixton on Saturday 29 June 2019, thereby causing the inconveience to others (see above), was reggae musician Ian Taylor, who was known as Fluximus, and had performed locally.

As previously stated, in addition to the Metropitan Police's murder investigation, the 'Independent' Office for Police Conduct is also investigating the incident because Mr Taylor had been arrested before being taken to hospital (where he subsequently died).

Earlier today, Mr Taylor's fiancée, Veronica Morrison, reportedly "demanded answers" over his death, which came months before the pair were due to marry.

Ms Morrison said “From this day I am going to make sure we get answers. His death was preventable, I’ve lost everything.”
 

CH1

"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Why don't you just spit out whatever fucking point it is you're trying to make? Can you do that?
I know - but it is odd that the police briefed that 3 people had been arrested and it turns out that one person under arrest died in hospital.

Seems possible to me that 3 people were arrested for fighting (commonly known in Met parlance as "affray") - one of whom had been seriously injured and died.

I think GarveyLives should try living inside a police cordon for 2 days. No doubt Ms Morrison is justifiably upset at what happened, but I and other affected residents didn't ask her fiancé to get into a fight.

I would be quite interested to know if any of the people involved in this incident were local to Coldharbour Lane.
 

Jimbeau

Lurker
Funnily enough, I just bumped into two separate groups of people, both of whom had lots to say about the image I posted.

Amazingly, none of those comments were about criticising me or rushing to the defence of the poor unrecognisable suited men; instead they wanted to talk about what the photo represented to them and what they felt were unwelcome changes happening in Brixton.
I for one wasn't defending the people in the picture - I know nothing more about them than you do. The point that their mode of working attire covers a spectrum from shop assistants to investment bankers (and that it sometimes includes me) is incidental. Had they been laughingly slapping homeless people across the face with wads of fifties it would be a different matter. They're just people walking through the town centre.

I was however calling out your actions. Posting that picture in this forum was a dog whistle to vilify individuals based on their appearance alone. You've subsequently confirmed that was your intent through numerous follow-up posts and your report of conducting vox pops on Brixton streets. I like living in a time when London has largely moved on from discriminatory behaviour and always thought this site in particular was bastion against incitement to hatred.

While the gentrification of our neighbourhood - and many like it - is a concerning and complex matter, it's nothing to do with the moral point I am making about the principle of discrimination.
 

mjd

Active Member
I was however calling out your actions. Posting that picture in this forum was a dog whistle to vilify individuals based on their appearance alone. You've subsequently confirmed that was your intent through numerous follow-up posts and your report of conducting vox pops on Brixton streets. I like living in a time when London has largely moved on from discriminatory behaviour and always thought this site in particular was bastion against incitement to hatred.
Unfortunately this site is only a bastion against incitement of hatred towards those with whom editor aligns himself. Anyone who doesn't agree with his narrow view of the world is fair game to be hated.
 
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Gramsci

Well-Known Member
When I post up about ongoing issues in area like for example the report on the community meeting following the murder at the youth centre on
LJ litlle interest is shown here. Ed puts up photo and whole load of posts about discrimination.

The discrimination that effects Brixton/ LJ was seen following the murder at the youth centre. Youth services have been almost completely cut. Only just surviving due to volunteers and charity.

My "vox pops" is that there is a lot of simmering resentment in the area.

The kind of discrimination I see is often invisible. Its not something one sees in central Brixton.
 

editor

hiraethified
Unfortunately this site is only a bastion against incitement of hatred towards those with whom editor aligns himself. Anyone who doesn't agree with his narrow view of the world is fair game to be hated.
You're being hysterical. Who am I 'hating'?
 

editor

hiraethified
I for one wasn't defending the people in the picture - I know nothing more about them than you do. The point that their mode of working attire covers a spectrum from shop assistants to investment bankers (and that it sometimes includes me) is incidental. Had they been laughingly slapping homeless people across the face with wads of fifties it would be a different matter. They're just people walking through the town centre.

I was however calling out your actions. Posting that picture in this forum was a dog whistle to vilify individuals based on their appearance alone. You've subsequently confirmed that was your intent through numerous follow-up posts and your report of conducting vox pops on Brixton streets. I like living in a time when London has largely moved on from discriminatory behaviour and always thought this site in particular was bastion against incitement to hatred.

While the gentrification of our neighbourhood - and many like it - is a concerning and complex matter, it's nothing to do with the moral point I am making about the principle of discrimination.
And so it goes on. Sigh.

You must get in a right rage when you read newspapers because this is exactly the sort of photo that they would use to cover the issue I'm highlighting. But you're not even interested in discussing those topics, even if you have a problem with the image- you're only interested in making it personal and having a go at me.

This month, both the Pound Cafe and the Hand In Hand have announced their closure. I've just posted an article about a free kids centre being made homeless.

Where's your opinion on these matters? Where's the outrage? Or is the use of a photo that you don't approve of the only thing that bothers you around Brixton, because you seem unable to stop going on and on about it.

Oh, and who I am being 'discriminatory' about here? The backs of anonymous businessmen wearing what look like expensive suits and on-trend leather bags, in an image used to symbolise the changes happening in Brixton?

If I'd taken a picture like this, I might have got your point:
https://www.theroot.com/the-white-people-are-coming-6-signs-your-neighborhood-1803819806
 

MissL

Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should start a thread highlighting volunteer opportunities around the Brixton area? The amount of hours put into arguing about clothing could be put far better used helping a primary school child learn to read, staffing an adventure playround for a couple of hours on a Saturday morning, or befriending an elderly person. I do a bit, but could do more. If everyone did a bit, then what a difference that would make. It's not what you do or what you wear when you head off to work but how far you're willing to play a part in the community in which you live. Maybe Urban could play a role in making more people aware of how they can get involved. Bracing myself for a torrent of abuse...
 

editor

hiraethified
Perhaps we should start a thread highlighting volunteer opportunities around the Brixton area? The amount of hours put into arguing about clothing could be put far better used helping a primary school child learn to read, staffing an adventure playround for a couple of hours on a Saturday morning, or befriending an elderly person. I do a bit, but could do more. If everyone did a bit, then what a difference that would make. It's not what you do or what you wear when you head off to work but how far you're willing to play a part in the community in which you live. Maybe Urban could play a role in making more people aware of how they can get involved. Bracing myself for a torrent of abuse...
I couldn't agree more.

As you know, I do a LOT for the community outside this website. Brixton Buzz has given away many thousands of pounds to local charities and has tirelessly campaigned on Brixton issues as well as helping local businesses and individuals. Truth is, I'd originally wanted to make it a part of this site, but as you can see, with all the infighting and personal attacks it would have been a pointless and self defeating venture.

As for this forum, Gramsci does a lot for the community and raises many important grassroots issues here but his posts are pretty much universally ignored. I post up a picture of anonymous businessman that some people decide they don't like, and suddenly the police is alive with people with opinions. As you suggest, it's a real shame they can't direct all that energy into doing something to help the community.
 

Nanker Phelge

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I think GarveyLives should try living inside a police cordon for 2 days. No doubt Ms Morrison is justifiably upset at what happened, but I and other affected residents didn't ask her fiancé to get into a fight.
I find your attitude here really offensive.

You don't know what Ian Taylor chose to do or not do or even if he chose at all. In the end he is dead, possibly murdered, and all your worried about is the bit of inconvenience the police investigation in to this man's death has brought in to your life.

That's a cunt's point of view.
 

ShiftyBagLady

Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
You claimed that the 'next generation' will somehow gain 'hope' from the presence of privileged white males walking around their neighbourhood. You posited that they "desperately need positive role models to demonstrate that there are viable alternatives to the stabbings, crashes and drunken behaviour that presently afflict Coldharbour Lane. "
Hey Ed, I don't suppose the people you were talking to expressed their gratitude for these aspirational role models did they? :p
I think we all know that daily, lived effect of gentrification for the locals is very different and a much more hostile experience than many people are willing to admit. Either because they think the end justifies the means or because they feel guilt because they are complicit in it.
Either way: fuck 'em.
 

mjd

Active Member
I post up a picture of anonymous businessman that some people decide they don't like, and suddenly the police is alive with people with opinions.
It isn't the picture that some people don't like, it's your assumption about those people, about what they represent and your vehement opposition to it that some people are calling out.
 

editor

hiraethified
It isn't the picture that some people don't like, it's your assumption about those people, about what they represent and your vehement opposition to it that some people are calling out.
You're calling me out for my vehement opposition to gentrification? Are you a fan, or something?
 

MissL

Well-Known Member
Hey Ed, I don't suppose the people you were talking to expressed their gratitude for these aspirational role models did they? :p
I think we all know that daily, lived effect of gentrification for the locals is very different and a much more hostile experience than many people are willing to admit. Either because they think the end justifies the means or because they feel guilt because they are complicit in it.
Either way: fuck 'em.
It's easy to suppress the guilt if you leave Brixton at 8am every morning and return at 7pm every evening apart from a couple of nights when maybe you stay out and get shitfaced with your colleagues in Old Street and return at midnight. I know I've done it. But when you're sat next to a six-year old on a school trip who has half-eaten fried chicken and day-old chips in their lunchbox or sometimes nothing, then it's a little harder to pretend austerity isn't a problem or that a widening gap between the haves and have nots doesn't cause hostility and distress. I don't have the answer beyond don't vote Tory, but it's shit.
 

Jimbeau

Lurker
And so it goes on. Sigh.

You must get in a right rage when you read newspapers because this is exactly the sort of photo that they would use to cover the issue I'm highlighting. But you're not even interested in discussing those topics, even if you have a problem with the image- you're only interested in making it personal and having a go at me.

This month, both the Pound Cafe and the Hand In Hand have announced their closure. I've just posted an article about a free kids centre being made homeless.

Where's your opinion on these matters? Where's the outrage? Or is the use of a photo that you don't approve of the only thing that bothers you around Brixton, because you seem unable to stop going on and on about it.

Oh, and who I am being 'discriminatory' about here? The backs of anonymous businessmen wearing what look like expensive suits and on-trend leather bags, in an image used to symbolise the changes happening in Brixton?

If I'd taken a picture like this, I might have got your point:
https://www.theroot.com/the-white-people-are-coming-6-signs-your-neighborhood-1803819806

You infer incorrectly. I am interested in these topics and discuss them regularly - just not on the internet where reasoned and nuanced debate is scarce. I won't be drawn into it now and probably never will.

And I'm not trying to make it personal. I enjoy an anonymity here that you don't, of course, but you and I have had various chance conversations over the years that I've enjoyed every much - though we don't know each other in a way that we'd say hello in the street. You do a great many good things around here for which you have my enduring admiration.

And yet. There's a difference between intent and effect.I think your picture is a poor symbol of social change and I disagree that a newspaper would have used it for a feature - it lacks both humanity and recognisable context for anyone who doesn't know that particular street corner. What remains therefore is a blunt 'if you dress like this you don't belong'. That's unpleasant, and more so when it's being used as a tool to crystallise animosity among others.
 

mjd

Active Member
You're calling me out for my vehement opposition to gentrification? Are you a fan, or something?
No. As I said on a number of occasions, I approve of how the gentlemen were dressed, because my view is that it could have (however small) some sort of positive influence. I may be wrong, but that is my view.

Gentrification, on the other hand, is in my view far too complex for me to be able to say whether I am a fan or not. I am probably part of the problem, but that does not mean that I cannot by my presence not also be part of a solution, whatever that may be.
 

editor

hiraethified
I think your picture is a poor symbol of social change and I disagree that a newspaper would have used it for a feature - it lacks both humanity and recognisable context for anyone who doesn't know that particular street corner.
OK, I get that. That's your opinion. For me the image summed up the changes I see on Coldharbour Lane and that's why I took the picture and seeing as it's in a brixton forum I expect people to know the context of the location. . To me, they represent the gentrifiers the invaders, the people pricing out my friends. Others have firmly agreed with me, but you don't. Fair enough. But don't you think you've over egged your response a bit while ignoring the issues it tried to highlight? Why can't you talk about that?
 

editor

hiraethified
No. As I said on a number of occasions, I approve of how the gentlemen were dressed, because my view is that it could have (however small) some sort of positive influence. I may be wrong, but that is my view.
You've yet to provide a coherent answer to why you think well dressed business men strolling along Coldharbour Lane would provide a positive inspiration for those living on the deprived council estate adjacent. From my conversations with the local youth, they'd be more likely to think of them as the enemy, not someone to look up to and aspire to. Their opportunities to be like them are pretty much stifled from the start and that's something that makes me angry.
 

Nanker Phelge

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I've never felt positively influenced from just observing two blokes walking along wearing suits.

I kinda wish I did. I work in the city.

I'd be positively influenced all fucking day long. I'd be positively influenced off my fucking bonce.

I would stand outside the city pubs all day looking at the masses of guffawing city wankers, getting my hit of positive influence, while they expand their beer guts to the point of popping their shirt buttons.

Sounds dreamy.
 

Jimbeau

Lurker
OK, I get that. That's your opinion. For me the image summed up the changes I see on Coldharbour Lane and that's why I took the picture and seeing as it's in a brixton forum I expect people to know the context of the location. . To me, they represent the gentrifiers the invaders, the people pricing out my friends. Others have firmly agreed with me, but you don't. Fair enough. But don't you think you've over egged your response a bit while ignoring the issues it tried to highlight? Why can't you talk about that?
I don't firmly agree with what wearing a suit in a Brixton street represents because, as I stated at the beginning of our conversation, I quite often walk round that corner dressed that way - out of necessity rather than choice - and I would have objected highly had you snapped me as your symbolic bogeyman. My values, lifestyle and connections to Brixton are not those of your caricature, though happily I know enough posters on here in real life to hope that the record would have been set straight on the matter had my picture appeared.

I'm not ignoring any issues. I don't however regard a comprehensive description of an individual's belief system an essential prerequisite to discussing any particular subject. But since you want binary answers, I think gentrification has had a negative effect on Brixton.

I also think it's a long-term macro-economic process with complex causes and symptoms in which we are all complicit in our different ways, often unwittingly so. No, I'm not going expand on that.
 

editor

hiraethified
I don't firmly agree with what wearing a suit in a Brixton street represents because, as I stated at the beginning of our conversation, I quite often walk round that corner dressed that way - out of necessity rather than choice - and I would have objected highly had you snapped me as your symbolic bogeyman. My values, lifestyle and connections to Brixton are not those of your caricature, though happily I know enough posters on here in real life to hope that the record would have been set straight on the matter had my picture appeared.

I'm not ignoring any issues. I don't however regard a comprehensive description of an individual's belief system an essential prerequisite to discussing any particular subject. But since you want binary answers, I think gentrification has had a negative effect on Brixton.

I also think it's a long-term macro-economic process with complex causes and symptoms in which we are all complicit in our different ways, often unwittingly so. No, I'm not going expand on that.
Thing is, I made a point of not showing their faces. To me, the image of two well dressed businessmen confidently striding along Coldharbour Lane towards a now-gentrified Brixton Village with deprived social housing behind them painted a very clear picture of the changes taking place in Brixton.

Who they are doesn't matter, so they don't need defending because nothing has been said about them personally.

And my years of working as a photographer tells me you are wrong when you surmise that a newspaper would ever use an image like that to make a similar point, because I'm sure they would, and I'll defend the image on that count.

You may not get it, or like it, but I've had enough people tell me they do.
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
Coldharbour Lane remains closed off after 54-year old man stabbed to death on Sat 29th June 2019




The member of one of Brixton communities who was killed in Brixton on Saturday 29 June 2019, thereby causing the inconveience to others (see above), was reggae musician Ian Taylor, who was known as Fluximus, and had performed locally.

As someone who lives on the street, unlike you, I find this comment offensive.

As I made clear previously its the police action response that has caused the "inconvenience".

A whole stretch of CHL was closed off that was no where near the site of the murder.

The murder took place on the pavement. Yet the police decided to cordon off a whole section of the street.

Including , for reason I don't understand, on last day of cordon insisting on taking peoples names and addresses who lived in the cordon. Which is instrusive.

I question the police tactics and response to this murder and this gets re interpreted seeing the murder as an inconvenience. Like I'm some callous "cunt" as another poster referred to another local resident.

Taking about this in my area people are sick and tired of the level of violence.

Some posters here don't live on my street they don't have a clue what it's like here.
 

Jimbeau

Lurker
Thing is, I made a point of not showing their faces. To me, the image of two well dressed businessmen confidently striding along Coldharbour Lane towards a now-gentrified Brixton Village with deprived social housing behind them painted a very clear picture of the changes taking place in Brixton.

Who they are doesn't matter, so they don't need defending because nothing has been said about them personally.

And my years of working as a photographer tells me you are wrong when you surmise that a newspaper would ever use an image like that to make a similar point, because I'm sure they would, and I'll defend the image on that count.

You may not get it, or like it, but I've had enough people tell me they do.
Look again at the picture. The man on the right is in profile and thus identifiable by anyone who knows him. You can't tell what they do for a living from their clothes. Their posture and gait shows they are walking, not 'confidently striding'. They are only going towards Brixton Village in the sense that it is further up the street and it is not a focal point of the composition. The deprived social housing behind them is not in the picture.

I'll leave this now as it's getting into the realms of the absurd and I can see myself starting to display the behaviours that have led me to engage so little with this forum in the past. Feel free to have the last word.
 

mjd

Active Member
You've yet to provide a coherent answer to why you think well dressed business men strolling along Coldharbour Lane would provide a positive inspiration for those living on the deprived council estate adjacent. From my conversations with the local youth, they'd be more likely to think of them as the enemy, not someone to look up to and aspire to. Their opportunities to be like them are pretty much stifled from the start and that's something that makes me angry.
And why does the local youth think of these people as the enemy? Because you, and others who share your view, constantly vilify them. Less negativity all round might not go amiss.

As for providing a coherent answer, coherence is subjective. I provided an answer I believed to be coherent. You disagree, which is your prerogative.
 
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