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Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Summer 2019

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editor

hiraethified
So Brewdog aren't content with their A-Board hogging the street - they've now applied to have tables and chairs outside their shiity bar.
 

ash

Inittogether
Michael Groce was supposed to mail me the details of this.

When I went past the tube today, it was full of schoolchildren peddling that fucking awful 'Local News' religious garbage paper from the UKCG.
Is this connected to the volunteer scheme ? If so thats really scary.
They are using kids a lot one dropped a paper on our table at SW9.
I felt a bit shit at telling a 12 year old who offered me on on Acre Lane that I wasn’t interested in that Nonesense ....... but if they hear it from enough people hopefully the message will sink in
 

editor

hiraethified
Is this connected to the volunteer scheme ? If so thats really scary.
No, not at all. And I've just realised that the link Garvey posted up is a month old so we're talking about completely different days!
 

mjd

Active Member
Is that the best you can do? Send yourself into exile, for your own sake. You're too pathetic to survive in the real world.
I seem to be managing to survive quite well thank you. But then I suppose that makes me one of the people that you hate.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
In this thread I have explained two ways in which, in my view, gentrification can be used for good:

1. Providing positive role models.
:D you think yuppies are positive role models?



2. Injecting funds into an area badly in need of investment.
think about it - where do these funds go to, in gentrification?

You don't consider either of these to be valid points, which is fine, but they are my attempt at explaining my personal view. You don't agree with the points. Hence we disagree.
they aren't valid, they are vapid
 

mjd

Active Member
they're not points, they're questions. you can tell they're questions by the '?' at the end of the sentence.

except for the bit about your points being vapid - well, with your reply you demonstrate how right i was.
If by yuppy, you mean a young professional (who seem to be the target of most of the hatred on here), I think that is a better role model than someone unemployed with no ambition or drive, yes.

And funds don't always go into gentrification. I fully accept that they often do, but I've already said that I think that can be a good thing.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
If by yuppy, you mean a young professional (who seem to be the target of most of the hatred on here), I think that is a better role model than someone unemployed with no ambition or drive, yes.
i think someone well off who moves into an area because it's cheaper, who helps price the working class inhabitants out of an area, who refuses to patronise local businesses and complains about the night-life of the district, whose life's work is to separate people from their money, i don't see how someone like that can really be construed as a positive role model. and, by contrast, a lot of people without jobs aren't unemployed because they've no desire to do something useful, they're unemployed because of the cackhanded way the economy's organised.
 

editor

hiraethified
If by yuppy, you mean a young professional (who seem to be the target of most of the hatred on here), I think that is a better role model than someone unemployed with no ambition or drive, yes.
Actually, there's plenty of unemployed people with no shortage of ambition or drive. Thing is, they're often not gifted the same opportunities as the privileged people you celebrate. In fact, it's often those very same people with power who are responsible for their predicament.
 

mjd

Active Member
i think someone well off who moves into an area because it's cheaper, who helps price the working class inhabitants out of an area, who refuses to patronise local businesses and complains about the night-life of the district, whose life's work is to separate people from their money, i don't see how someone like that can really be construed as a positive role model. and, by contrast, a lot of people without jobs aren't unemployed because they've no desire to do something useful, they're unemployed because of the cackhanded way the economy's organised.
I agree with part of that. I moved into the area because I could not afford other areas, yes, but I patronise local businesses and I love the night-life. I'm not sure I understand your point about separating people from their money. That's relevant in the context of a business or developer, but not in the context of an individual who uses local business and socialises in local bars and restaurants.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
I agree with part of that. I moved into the area because I could not afford other areas, yes, but I patronise local businesses and I love the night-life. I'm not sure I understand your point about separating people from their money. That's relevant in the context of a business or developer, but not in the context of an individual who uses local business and socialises in local bars and restaurants.
young professionals so frequently young financial professionals or estate agents and the like who thrive on taking other people's money
 

editor

hiraethified
I agree with part of that. I moved into the area because I could not afford other areas, yes, but I patronise local businesses and I love the night-life. I'm not sure I understand your point about separating people from their money. That's relevant in the context of a business or developer, but not in the context of an individual who uses local business and socialises in local bars and restaurants.
Not if they're patronising all the new upmarket businesses that have sprung up to service the needs of affluent gentrifiers at the expense of existing, locally-run businesses who are now deemed surplus to requirements by the incoming, well heeled cocktail slurpers and foodie grazers.

End result: existing locals are priced out and we end up with a two-tier town. Which is what we have now.
 

mjd

Active Member
young professionals so frequently young financial professionals or estate agents and the like who thrive on taking other people's money
Estate agents need infinitely more regulation and control than they currently have, and certain areas of the finance world do too, but any business needs to take other people's money to survive. Is the point you're trying to make linked to the use of that money that is taken, rather than it being taken in the first place? If it is to line the pockets of absentee shareholders, I agree that is bad, but if it is taken and reinvested in the community and in supporting sustainable jobs and growth then that is good.
 

mjd

Active Member
Not if they're patronising all the new upmarket businesses that have sprung up to service the needs of affluent gentrifiers at the expense of existing, locally-run businesses who are now deemed surplus to requirements by the incoming, well heeled cocktail slurpers and foodie grazers.

End result: existing locals are priced out and we end up with a two-tier town. Which is what we have now.
I love your afterthoughts. "Incoming wealth" becomes "incoming well heeled cocktail slurpers and foodie grazers". I agree with your point though.
 

editor

hiraethified
Estate agents need infinitely more regulation and control than they currently have, and certain areas of the finance world do too, but any business needs to take other people's money to survive. Is the point you're trying to make linked to the use of that money that is taken, rather than it being taken in the first place? If it is to line the pockets of absentee shareholders, I agree that is bad, but if it is taken and reinvested in the community and in supporting sustainable jobs and growth then that is good.
You keep trotting out this 'reinvested in the community' line, so could you give an illustration how gentrification has benefitted the existing community in the Moorlands Estate which is directly adjacent to the gentrified Brixton Village/Brixton Square/Shrub & Shutter cocktail Bar etc etc.
 

mjd

Active Member
You keep trotting out this 'reinvested in the community' line, so could you give an illustration how gentrification has benefitted the existing community in the Moorlands Estate which is directly adjacent to the gentrified Brixton Village/Brixton Square/Shrub & Shutter cocktail Bar etc etc.
I am not aware of an instance in which it has benefitted that community. My comment was that reinvestment in the community is good, not that it is necessarily happening. In fact, I agree with you that it is not happening. But where (I think) we differ is that I believe that gentrification can be used for good, but you do not.
 

editor

hiraethified
I am not aware of an instance in which it has benefitted that community. My comment was that reinvestment in the community is good, not that it is necessarily happening. In fact, I agree with you that it is not happening. But where (I think) we differ is that I believe that gentrification can be used for good, but you do not.
So as far as this area is concerned, I am absolutely right to say that gentrification has offered no tangible benefits to the local community. Great. Now we're getting somewhere.

Could you now offer me some real world benefits where gentrification has helped an existing low-income community?
 

Nanker Phelge

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I am not aware of an instance in which it has benefitted that community.
......and there's the rub.

Gentrification is not regeneration. It's not delivering aid to a community in need. It is stripping an area clean of the needy and replacing them all with those who have plenty and desire a new playground to spend it in.

Gentrification in Brixton has offered nothing to long term residents of the area. It has delivered nothing to those poorest and most in need of a foot up in life.

That being unemployed represents to you a lack of ambition and motivation is quite frankly offensive and patronising.

I myself was unemployed a couple of years back and my ambition and motivation were very present and correct. Sadly the jobs were not at that time and I struggled for a bit. That did not make me any less of a person.

I have a good job and make good money. If that is taken away from me tomorrow I am not immediately thrust into having no ambition and motivation. I am thrust into survival mode.

Gentrification does nothing locally for people who are struggling to survive and survival takes a lot of fucking effort. Often a lot more than going to work everyday.

Have the life you want. Ponce about at Pop and eat out fancy at the newest artisan food merchants, but don't behave as if that makes you better than someone who is getting by on forty quid a week, and struggling to find work.

People end up in hopeless situations for all sorts of reason. They often haven't given up, they've been given up on.
 
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editor

hiraethified
......and there's the rub.

Gentrification is not regeneration. It's not delivering aid to a community in need. It is stripping an area clean of the needy and replacing them with all with those who have plenty and desire a new playground to spend it in.

Gentrification in Brixton has offered nothing to long term residents of the area. It has delivered nothing to those poorest and most in need of a foot up in life.

That being unemployed represents to you a lack of ambition and motivation is quite frankly offensive and patronising.

I myself was unemployed a couple of years back and my ambition and motivation were very present and correct. Sadly the jobs were not at that time and I struggled for a bit. That did not make me any less of a person.

I have a good job and make good money. If that is taken away from me tomorrow I am not immediately thrust into having no ambition and motivation. I am thrust into survival mode.

Gentrification does nothing locally for people who are struggling to survive and survival takes a lot of fucking effort. Often a lot more than going to work everyday.

Have the life you want. Ponce about at Pop and eat out fancy at the newest artisan food merchants, but don't behave as if that makes you better than someone who is getting by on forty quid a week, and struggling to find work.

People end up in hopeless situations for all sorts of reason. They often haven't given up, they've been given up on.
I'd *double* like this if I could.
 

JuanTwoThree

Bracing
I think a useful analogy might be a small town. I wouldn't like to live in one that only had one demographic, and that could be a wealthy one as much as one that wasn't. More so. You want a place with charity shops, a delicatessen, takeaways, a supermarket that sells everything, some cafes, some decent restaurants as well. Different kinds of pubs too. Not because only one class goes to one thing and not the other. Something for everyone and no one feeling threatened by the existence of the others. People can move comfortably from one vibe to another. It's what I've bèen used to all my life and the London villages where I lived were the same. When I was unemployed I made different choices from when I had a job without going down different streets. Spreading my money around the community when I could. It's how things should be.

An incoherent rant but you know what I'm driving at.

But there is one kind of yuppy who won't be really happy until the last unsightly budget shop and the last chippy has gone, until only PLU can be found in the streets. They are beneath contempt.
 
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