British troops going to the Congo?

[dylanredefined]

Your right genocide or holocaust should really be applied to what the belgiums did to the congo.
Tried to read a book about history of the congo but its truly horrible .

 

[free spirit]

According to an article I read (but can't find) the congo's UN commander's not really asking for more standard troops, he's asking for a relatively small number of special forces / SAS types, plus aerial reconisance units & proper upto the minute satellite surveillance capabilties.

He's got the biggest UN force in operation in the world already, but the area's fucking huge (the entire area they're mandated for is the size of western europe ish), so he basically needs to be able to track the rebels movements so he can deploy his forces properly rather than just spreading them thinly across the whole area... that and having an offensive strike capability to hit them using small well trained, well equipped mobile units.

So yeah, I reckon if we've got any of that kind of capabilty sat in basra, or afghanistan (where the weather's going to mean most of the unmanned drones and such like are going to be pretty much grounded anyway for the next few months) or elsewhere then I reckon we should urgently send it across to the congo for a few months to help stop the entire UN mission becoming a total farce and the congo descending back into full on civil war.

Having said that, from the sounds of it there's a fair few of the congo's army that need court martialling for looting villages as they've retreated, and there's quite likely to be a fair amount of truth to the rebels claims that they're essentially fighting the same people who caused the Ruandan ethnic cleansing in the 90's... big can of worms, but that can be sorted out once order is restored, and the local war lord types have learned that the UN has some teeth.

IMO

 

[free spirit]

The UN have been utterly corrupt in Congo involved in child prostitution and rape

that is one of the many things that worries me about this situation, but I can't see any solution that doesn't involve a UN peace keeping force, and far better IMO to act quickly now to prop up this UN force than sit on the sidelines and watch as the rebels pick it off piece by piece, leading to moral dropping off a cliff and eventual pull out in disgrace... I'd hate to think what the UN soldiers would do in that situation if they felt they'd been abandoned by the rest of the world and left to fight their way out unsupported. I think in that situation there'd be a fair chance of so many major atrocities being committed by UN troops that the UN couldn't mount an effective major peacekeeping operation for a generation or more.

 

[likesfish]

the rebel force is 4000 strong so not a massive force and in a small corner of the congo so the mission is theoretically doable.
there better trained and motivated than any of the local forces but if they came up against western troops they would fold fast.
french foreign legion or Belgium para commandos could stop this.

 

[EddyBlack]

'Eastern DR Congo feels like a different country to the capital, Kinshasa, which is about 2,000km (1,240 miles) to the west on the Atlantic seaboard.

Northern DR Congo is tied to the capital by the Congo River, that great trading artery of the country that flows down to Kinshasa.

Southern Congo is tied to Kinshasa by money - most of the profitable industrial mines are in the south and the Kinshasa politicians, of course, stay close to them.

... But in reality almost all the UN forces are concentrated in and around eastern DR Congo.

The region is the source of the tensions that have sparked all of DR Congo's wars in the past decade.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7696139.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...how-we-fuel-africas-bloodiest-war-978461.html

 

[TomPaine]

slightly off the point - I've read elswhere about *the west* selling arms to these governments and rebels, in fact this is bandyed about a lot. Why is it then all the arms you ever see there are russian /chinese/korean AK's RPG rocket launchers , mortars , vehicles even the webbing that the soldiers use is (ex)communist bloc. You never see any of them with new SA80 rifles or new M16's. Funny that.

The reasons for this are complex. The majority of the weapons that are cheap and accessible to rebel movements tend to be the AK47. After the fall of the soviety block lots of wepaons flooded into the market as ex military commanders and soliders in the ex USSR sold them off to black market gangs and just about anyone else who would pay for them.
There ws also a lot of ex-Soviet weaponry on the market from the cold war, since rebel movement in South America for example couldn't turn to the West for aid (as they where often fighting governments proped up by Western business interests) they turned to Russia for cheap weapons and support.
The AK47 is also an incredibly durable weapon (compare it with the SA80 jamming thanks to sand in it etc.) and abundant, hence why you see militias from Afghanistan to the Congo armed with them.

With regards to Western weapon sales. Group like BAe tend to seel things like fighter jets (see south east Asia for example). If you get the chance read Mark Thomas' book "As used on Nelson Mandella". This explains a lot about how the weapons industry works, as well as how Ireland has incredibly lax laws on arms trading.
Some chap in Cork could buy a crate load of guns from the Ukraine and ship them to the Congo, without them ever touching Irish soil.
I believe Ireland and Finland are tweo of the worst when it comes to arms trading laws.

TomPaine

 

[dylanredefined]

the rebel force is 4000 strong so not a massive force and in a small corner of the congo so the mission is theoretically doable.
there better trained and motivated than any of the local forces but if they came up against western troops they would fold fast.
french foreign legion or Belgium para commandos could stop this.

Belgiums cant go As it would be the equivalent of having the SS peace keeping in the former yugoslavia.
As other have put it in better words than I .They were cunts when it
was their colony and utter cunts to it after they left .

 

[Fuchs66]

Does the UN ever do anything anymore?

surely the whole point of them being able to get troops is for situations like this and zimbabwe

that korean guy seems even worse than kofi anan

The UN is only as good as its member states "want" it to be.

The answer to this is mandate, mandate, mandate

slightly off the point - I've read elswhere about *the west* selling arms to these governments and rebels, in fact this is bandyed about a lot. Why is it then all the arms you ever see there are russian /chinese/korean AK's RPG rocket launchers , mortars , vehicles even the webbing that the soldiers use is (ex)communist bloc. You never see any of them with new SA80 rifles or new M16's. Funny that.

As has already been stated, East European arms doesn't necessarily mean an East European arms sales person. Plus East European arms (especially earlier models) are far better suited to ill trained troops than the more high tech/sensitive western equivalents.

The UN have been utterly corrupt in Congo involved in child prostitution and rape

The UN is unfortuately under the control of the member states and is forced to take personnel where it can get them and where it is pressured to get them. I'm sure better trained and more disciplined troops would be welcomed on the ground but not necessarily on the political level.
So the partial answer to this is inclusion, inclusion, inclusion

 

[Bakunin]

Hmmmmmmm.

I wonder how long it'll be before various 'private military companies' (simply a posh and PC term for mercenaries, IMHO) start bidding for this sort of work?

After all, it isn't so long since the likes of 'Mad Mike' Hoare's 'Five Commando' and the Belgian mercs (deservedly, IMHO, known as 'les affreux' or 'the awful ones') made their appearance back in the 1960's. Although, to be fair to 'Five Commando or 'The WIld Geese' as they were known, they were far better soldiers than the Belgian mercs and discipline, albeit rough and ready, was at least exercised by Hoare.

 

[likesfish]

think it comes down to cost UN missions mean a nice little earner for 3rd world defence ministers as they cream off the budget meant for the troops on the ground

 

[brasicritique]

British troops going to the Congo? yeah but its more likely to be as part of a recruiment drive

 

[_float_]

...french foreign legion or Belgium para commandos could stop this.

They also have the advantage of speaking French and of having bases/airfelds in the region.

 

[ViolentPanda]

British troops going to the Congo? yeah but its more likely to be as part of a recruiment drive

No, they can only do that in parts of the former British empire, not the Belgian one.

 

[durruti02]

i work in the same depot as congolese refugee .. he says the trouble at Goma is all about Cobalt for mobiles and airplanes .. and that this is an area with a massive Chinese financial commitment .. could this be the start of a phony ( or real ) western war against China??????

 

[Bakunin]

i work in the same depot as congolese refugee .. he says the trouble at Goma is all about Cobalt for mobiles and airplanes .. and that this is an area with a massive Chinese financial commitment .. could this be the start of a phony ( or real ) western war against China??????

Well, proxy wars have been going on between the big powers in Africa for donkey's years as far as I know. I don't think a real war between the West and China is on the cards, but yet another proxy war could very well be, especially as China is a growing power in the region.

 

[_float_]

i work in the same depot as congolese refugee .. he says the trouble at Goma is all about Cobalt for mobiles and airplanes .. and that this is an area with a massive Chinese financial commitment .. could this be the start of a phony ( or real ) western war against China??????

China actually have troops there with the UN.

 

[ivebeenhigh]

i managed to get this edit to last all of 20 minutes on wikipedia

 

[Fullyplumped]

i managed to get this edit to last all of 20 minutes on wikipedia

Reference to the central importance of a nutritious fruit based beverage to the Congo lasted for many months in the main economy article.

 

[Bakunin]

I wonder, if British troops do go in, they'll end up having to do anything as ballsy as this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qHcd4imKk&feature=related

Not quite the way an Apache was originally intended to be used, methinks.

 

[likesfish]

actually they practice that comes from something discovered when using the Huey cobra open the ammo drawers the lid makes an improvised seat hey presto can take a fellow cobra crew to safety.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i work in the same depot as congolese refugee .. he says the trouble at Goma is all about Cobalt for mobiles and airplanes .. and that this is an area with a massive Chinese financial commitment .. could this be the start of a phony ( or real ) western war against China??????

Tantalum more than cobalt.