British Muslims - What They Really Think

[guinnessdrinker]

Also, those disagreeing with the poll why don't you should bring up your own statistics that contradict these ones?

The point of this thread (like I said) is that we can pin down the numbers and know what we're talking about.

anybody can bring you any type of statistics to back up their pet theory, it all depends on the sample and the questions that have been asked. on the basis of information so far, it does not mean anything.

lies, lies and damn statistics

 

[where to]

you talking to me, trashpony?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

theres no doubt that the group who commissioned the poll had an agenda, but would that have had an influence on the results of the poll, would it affect the relevence of the findings? i dont think so.

of course, it had an influence. who is deciding or influencing the questions to ask?

 

[magneze]

There were 1.6 million Muslims in the UK in 2001.

If 7% of all Muslims (all ages) 'justify terror attacks in the UK' that makes 115,000 people like the ones marching in London on Friday.

Is that problematic?

What do you suggest is done?

 

[trashpony]

you talking to me, trashpony?

No - to Kasheem - who seemed to doubt who'd commissioned the poll

 

[mk12]

A poll has just been published in the Times by Populus so we don't have to have fantasize any more...

http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2006/02/07/what_british_muslims_believe.php

Some of the results:

-37% say the British Jewish Community is a 'legitimate target' “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”.
-30% say Israel has NO RIGHT to exist
-12% of 18-24 year olds think that Terrorist atrocities in the UK can be justified
-21% believe Terror Bombings in Israel are justified
-46% of all Muslims think "Jews are in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics".

So if you want to make a historical analogy what is it... that Muslims = Oppressed Minority or Muslims = potential Nazis?

A minority of Muslims believe this....a minority of Muslims believe that. The majority believe Israel has a right to exist. What are you actually telling us?

 

[Pigeon]

-46% of all Muslims think "Jews are in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics".

They certainly do! All the Muslim guys I know - and I know a fair few, both from work and from social arenas like the gym - seldom talk about anything else!

I mean, seriously- read the statement back: have you ever met anyone other than the most raving ZOG obsessed conspiraloon who ever used that sort of language? I think you'll find it's what could be described as a "leading question".

 

[where to]

EDIT: THIS IS THE QUESTIONS FROM A POPULUS POLL OF DECEMBER 2005

How far would you say you agree with the general statements or teachings of the following Muslim leaders?

Omar Bakri Mohammed

Very much/ Somewhat agree 17
Very much/Somewhat disagree 27

Abu Hamza Al-Masri

Very much/ Somewhat agree 13
Very much/Somewhat disagree 30

"Men are marginally more likely to agree with the teachings of Yusuf Islam than women by 52% to 46%, and with Iqbal Sacranie by 24% to 16%. Women are more likely to agree with Omar Bakri Mohammed than men, by 21% to 12%.

28% of 18-24 year old Muslims say they agree with Omar Bakri Mohammed, compared with 17% of Muslims overall. Younger Muslims are also more likely than those in general to agree with Abu Hamza (by 27% to 13%), Hamza Yusuf (by 39% to 27%), Tariq Ramadan (by 22% to 17%) and Azzam Tamimi (by 19% to 12%)."

 

[magneze]

Which specific teachings are they agreeing/disagreeing with? Any source for that too, btw?

 

[kasheem]

A minority of Muslims believe this....a minority of Muslims believe that. The majority believe Israel has a right to exist. What are you actually telling us?

That a minority of Muslims are extreme fanatics leaning towards Fascism. Obviously it's not more than 50% (then it wouldn't be a minority ') but it isn't "a tiny, tiny, miniscule, extremely small, tiiiiiiiiiiny" minority like the liberals go on about. It's a significant minority.

Whether it's nearer 5% or 25% is what is open to question.

I just wish we could get that out of the way and deal with the facts. Sticking your head in the sand and reciting the PC mantra only helps the extremists on both sides.

 

[where to]

i think this is the same poll the time published the other day, i think that might have been a republication

either way, this link gives you the questions the asked and all the answers, well worth a look:
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_02_07_times.htm

 

[toggle]

Also, those disagreeing with the poll why don't you should bring up your own statistics that contradict these ones?

The point of this thread (like I said) is that we can pin down the numbers and know what we're talking about.

If the poll is wrong fine, but so far all you've got so far is that it was supposedly "commissioned by Jews"

nope, we've got the very small sample size

we've got that we have no idea of where it was conducted, and exactly what questions were asked. it is easy to bias a survey through asking leading questions of a selected sample.

 

[where to]

shit. i'm afraid that freemasons question is there too. fucking mental.

 

[kasheem]

nope, we've got the very small sample size

we've got that we have no idea of where it was conducted, and exactly what questions were asked. it is easy to bias a survey through asking leading questions of a selected sample.

500 people isn't a great sample size but it is not as tiny as you say. At most there would be an error of 5% if I'm remembering correctly... That's 5% either way on any question.

 

[where to]

we've got that we have no idea of where it was conducted, and exactly what questions were asked. it is easy to bias a survey through asking leading questions of a selected sample.

take a look mate, answers most of yr questions.
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_...02_07_times.htm

some folk need to take their heads out the sand on this one i'm afraid

 

[trashpony]

500 people isn't a great sample size but it is not as tiny as you say. At most there would be an error of 5% if I'm remembering correctly... That's 5% either way on any question.

Okay - let's say that nearly all the Muslims they interviewed were coming out of the mosque in Finsbury Park. Or known areas where more radical fundamentalist Muslims were known to congregate. Or what wider context it was conducted in.

The fact is - the survey had an agenda. And so do you.

 

[mutley]

As well as the sample size, where and how was the poll taken? How did they find 500 Muslims? Did they stop people in Muslim dress in the street? Many Muslims dress in a western style. Did they do it outside mosques? Many Muslims don't go to Mosque that often. How?

For it to be fair every Muslim, in a terrace in Bradford or a semi in Solihull has to have an equal chance of being asked. And i bet the more 'dispersed' less visible muslims are weighted towrds the liberal end of the scale.

The error of 5% sounds about right - but only if its a genuinely representative sample.

 

[trashpony]

Also, those disagreeing with the poll why don't you should bring up your own statistics that contradict these ones?

Here's some other data from the poll which has so far been 'overlooked' by some of the posters on this thread:

Most people (49%) say that Yusuf Islam (ie Cat Stevens) most closely represents their views. The least (13%) say that Abu Hamza does.

Over 60% don't feel that suicide bombings are ever justifed in Chechnya, Israel, Britain or Iraq (in fact the lowest number is 66% - in Israel). 75% don't feel that civilians are legitimate targets and 59% don't feel that the military are.

So how come none of you poll quoters quoted that little lot? Didn't support your views?

 

[TremulousTetra]

but hey, we should respect this diversity of beliefs. to talk about it like this is actually racist, come to think of it. we need to be much more understanding.

what a load of crap. When I have been outside the mosque selling Socialist worker and building for various events I have had arguments on quite a few occasions with people who have come out with comments like that. It's quite easy to point out the many Jews who are doing something about the injustice in Palestine.

Rmp3

 

[TremulousTetra]

Here's some other data from the poll which has so far been 'overlooked' by some of the posters on this thread:

Most people (49%) say that Yusuf Islam (ie Cat Stevens) most closely represents their views. The least (13%) say that Abu Hamza does.

Over 60% don't feel that suicide bombings are ever justifed in Chechnya, Israel, Britain or Iraq (in fact the lowest number is 66% - in Israel). 75% don't feel that civilians are legitimate targets and 59% don't feel that the military are.

So how come none of you poll quoters quoted that little lot? Didn't support your views?

 

[trashpony]

Gosh - hasn't it gone quiet in here?

 

[where to]

what a load of crap. When I have been outside the mosque selling Socialist worker and building for various events I have had arguments on quite a few occasions with people who have come out with comments like that. It's quite easy to point out the many Jews who are doing something about the injustice in Palestine.

i was being sarcastic mate

 

[where to]

Gosh - hasn't it gone quiet in here?

i presumed you were off taking a look at the poll rather than just hypothisising about about it.

heres the link again in case you missed it:
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_02_07_times.htm

 

[magneze]

Even if we ignore the many concerns about the poll, all it shows is that a small minority of Muslims are very angry about something. What should we do about this? Should we demonise the entire religion? Maybe we should try to work out why these people are so angry?

I think that if we look at the underlying reasons then we might actually get a clearer insight into the way forward - these surveys give us nothing but headline grabbing statistics and give little indication what the way forward is.

 

[trashpony]

i presumed you were off taking a look at the poll rather than just hypothisising about about it.

heres the link again in case you missed it:
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_02_07_times.htm

Errm - I quoted from it above. Perhaps you'd care to read it? And that link doesn't work

 

[trashpony]

Even if we ignore the many concerns about the poll, all it shows is that a small minority of Muslims are very angry about something. What should we do about this? Should we demonise the entire religion? Maybe we should try to work out why these people are so angry?

Nah - that'd be sensible. Let's try and whip up a little hysteria - it's so much more fun

 

[toggle]

Nah - that'd be sensible. Let's try and whip up a little hysteria - it's so much more fun

it's the assumption that only one religion produces extremist nutjobs.

 

[where to]

And that link doesn't work

yes it does.

 

[magneze]

I find it really weird. Why has this thread been posted? Normally someone posts a poll in support of a particular point or course of action. However, I see nothing of that from the OP or from the poster of the other poll ... What point were you trying to prove? What action do you think should be taken considering these results?

Personally I'd try and dig deeper with that minority of people with some of the more extreme views. Work out what was going on. Only then can we even begin to work out what to do next ...

 

[where to]

Personally I'd try and dig deeper with that minority of people with some of the more extreme views. Work out what was going on. Only then can we even begin to work out what to do next ...

thats a good call mate, but that can only happen once you've accepted that people hold such views. which this thread seems to have achieved. which answers your first question.