British Lions Squad

[Red Faction]

Im disappointed so many Irishmen are going.
The Lions is a joke- Woodward is a twat.
I just hope the 4 Munstermen dont come back injured.

 

[Juice Terry]

The thing I'm most pissed off about is the supposed coach of England, Andy Robinson has chosen to go with the Lions to NZ instead of where he should be, at the Churchill cup in Canada helping to develop the next generation of England players. I think he was even quoted in the press saying our next international would be against the Boks in November, small matter of Canada and Argentina in June first Andy.

 

[slaar]

Add One Jonny Wilkinson...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4504955.stm

Good news for the tour; at the least it'll make Stephen Jones play out of his skin, and at the best we get a top-draw Wilkinson running the show and kicking the points.

 

[Juice Terry]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4504955.stm

Good news for the tour; at the least it'll make Stephen Jones play out of his skin, and at the best we get a top-draw Wilkinson running the show and kicking the points.

I wish he was going to Canada instead.

 

[Mr Retro]

I wish he was going to Canada instead.

He doesn't though. What use would it be for him to go to Canada rather than New Zealand? Your not on the RFU Committee are you?

 

[Cosmo Topper]

I wish he was going to Canada instead.

Why. Who, really, gives a stuff about some tinpot 2nd XV competition against the Yanks when there's a Lions series to New Zealand.

Absolutely none of the England team or coaching staff for one thing, who'd all sell their gran to be going to NZ

 

[Mr Retro]

Why. Who, really, gives a stuff about some tinpot 2nd XV competition against the Yanks when there's a Lions series to New Zealand.

Absolutely none of the England team or coaching staff for one thing, who'd all sell their gran to be going to NZ

My feelings entirely. What senior players or coaches are going to learn a single fucking thing in Canada? But they will learn an awful lot by going with the Lions to NZ.

IMO a lions tour to NZ is as big as it gets. Bigger than the world cup even.

 

[Juice Terry]

Why. Who, really, gives a stuff about some tinpot 2nd XV competition against the Yanks when there's a Lions series to New Zealand.

Absolutely none of the England team or coaching staff for one thing, who'd all sell their gran to be going to NZ

Because the pinnacle of the sport is the World Cup. To me a successful England team is far far more important than a Lions tour. The number of England coaches going to NZ is scandalous, they should be concentrating on putting right all the fuck ups they've presided over during the last two years and getting a team together capable of defending the World Cup in 2007. Mike Ruddock is fulfilling his Welsh responsibilities before joining the Lions why can't Robinson?

I'm not saying no england players should go on the Lions, but Johnny
W has been broken for two years and hasn't played an international since Sydney 2003. The last thing he needs right now is to be torn to shreds by the All Blacks and maybe worse the rabid NZ media. Of course he wants to go, he'd crawl over broken glass if you asked him, thats his nature, but maybe he's not the best judge of whats right for JW.

Ask the England boys what they value most, their World Cup medals or the memories of returning beaten, knackered, over played and injured by the last Lions tour to Australia. The roots of the RWC victory were sown on the back of what you would describe a B team tour to Argentina not the Lions.

 

[Mr Retro]

I think JT, this tour is going to be very different. Graham Henry did more or less everthing wrong in Australia. Woodward will make sure this is different

Another way to look at it - Ask the England boys which they would prefer to choose now. Playing in this Lions team in NZ or going to the next world cup with England? If any choose the latter I would be surprised.

 

[Juice Terry]

I think JT, this tour is going to be very different. Graham Henry did more or less everthing wrong in Australia. Woodward will make sure this is different

Another way to look at it - Ask the England boys which they would prefer to choose now. Playing in this Lions team in NZ or going to the next world cup with England? If any choose the latter I would be surprised.

You're kidding right? They would all, except for the old has beens who'll be too old in 2007, choose the World Cup, no contest.

I'm not arguing totally against the Lions btw, I love it just as much as the next rugby fan, but I think things are getting out of perspective, a squad of 46 is just silly, reduce the squad to 35, play just 3 or 4 warm up games with no mid week matches between the tests and it would be a lot better for all concerned.

 

[Cosmo Topper]

And what exactly are England going to learn in the Churchill Cup? Fuck all that's what. If it weren't for the Lions tour the majority of senior england players would, I'm sure, be resting this summer, and rightly so.

And England didn't win the WC last time of the back of games against Wales (as was), Romania or the USA. They did it by regularly taking on the southern hemisphere teams, culminating in beating Aus and NZ in their own back yard six months before the World Cup. It was the belief from playing all those November tests and holding out the All Blacks with 13 men that allowed an ever so slightly past its peak England side to win the WC, not "development tours" to play minnows.

The English lads and Andy Robinson will learn an awful lot more about the pressure of top class international rugby playing a genuinly fired up Kiwi side than anything else going on this summer.

To say that some tin pot tour to the US is more important than a Lions series is still, quite frankly, laughable.

 

[Juice Terry]

And what exactly are England going to learn in the Churchill Cup? Fuck all that's what. If it weren't for the Lions tour the majority of senior england players would, I'm sure, be resting this summer, and rightly so.

And England didn't win the WC last time of the back of games against Wales (as was), Romania or the USA. They did it by regularly taking on the southern hemisphere teams, culminating in beating Aus and NZ in their own back yard six months before the World Cup. It was the belief from playing all those November tests and holding out the All Blacks with 13 men that allowed an ever so slightly past its peak England side to win the WC, not "development tours" to play minnows.

The English lads and Andy Robinson will learn an awful lot more about the pressure of top class international rugby playing a genuinly fired up Kiwi side than anything else going on this summer.

To say that some tin pot tour to the US is more important than a Lions series is still, quite frankly, laughable.

You really don't have much of a clue about rugby development and the part it plays in producing a successful test side capable of taking on the All Blacks or Australia do you?

 

[Cosmo Topper]

You really don't have much of a clue about rugby development and the part it plays in producing a successful test side capable of taking on the All Blacks or Australia do you?

And you you patronising twat obviously have no idea of the history and importance of the Lions. Do you even play the game?

Anyway, as you're so knowledgable on the subject perhaps you could enlighten me as to what makes a successful test side capable of taking on the sanza sides?

I believed Clive Woodwood when he said it was taking on the southern hemisphere sides regularly, eroding the respect/fear felt by the english players prior to that. Perhaps Sir C was lying?

But then again, perhaps you are right, perhaps a two test second string tour is more a more profitable use of Andy Robinsons time than what will be a ferociously competetive actual Lions tour, which will mean an awful lot more to an awful lot more people than England this summer.

 

[Juice Terry]

OK I'll try and make it simple for you, I think I'm going to have to. Do you think SCW just plucked 15 players out of nowhere and started beating the Aussies and ABs. Do you think if he had and just kept on playing them that one day they would just start winning?

Julian White, Lewis Moody, Josh Lewsey, Ben Kay and Martin Corry all toured Canada with England four years ago as relative unknowns on the international scene and ended up world cup winners. Guys like Vickery, Thompson and Woodman came of age taking on the Pumas in Buenos Aires.

But according to you,

what exactly are England going to learn in the Churchill Cup? Fuck all that's what.

I'll answer another one of your clueless rants as well,

Who, really, gives a stuff about some tinpot 2nd XV competition against the Yanks when there's a Lions series to New Zealand.

James Forrester, Andy Goode, Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matthew Tait and Andy hazell to name but six who do, guys who may well have quite a bit to say about the future of english rugby.
But you've probably never heard of them have you. Clueless.Twat.

 

[Cosmo Topper]

OK I'll try and make it simple for you, I think I'm going to have to. Do you think SCW just plucked 15 players out of nowhere and started beating the Aussies and ABs. Do you think if he had and just kept on playing them that one day they would just start winning?

Julian White, Lewis Moody, Josh Lewsey, Ben Kay and Martin Corry all toured Canada with England four years ago as relative unknowns on the international scene and ended up world cup winners. Guys like Vickery, Thompson and Woodman came of age taking on the Pumas in Buenos Aires.

But according to you,


I'll answer another one of your clueless rants as well,



James Forrester, Andy Goode, Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matthew Tait and Andy hazell to name but six who do, guys who may well have quite a bit to say about the future of english rugby.
But you've probably never heard of them have you. Clueless.Twat.

Look, it's not hard. Those England players and staff who go to New Zealand this summer will learn an awful lot about themselves, each other, and real top class rugby. Probably only the semi-finals of the world cup will come close to the intensity of this series. To think that this will not benefit those players is naive or ignorant.

And the development tours do have their place, but the intensity of the Premiership played at least as big a part in Englands WC win than any development squad. England destroyed teams in the pack, and would have given the Aussies a real pasting up front had they been allowed to. The Super 12 (or Canada) doesn't prepare players for the Test Arena, the Premiership, at least until this season, does a damn good job of it.

It could be said the training regime brought in by Woodward and his staff, and all the rest of the "critical non-essentials" were just as important also. To suggest that the likes of Lewsey, Kay and White were forged in the heat of battle in fucking Argentina is absurd.

And while I agree it may be beneficial for the 2nd string to go with England (maybe more beneficial for a rest, but there you go), when it comes down to it, a Lions victory is far more important to the vast majority of people, at least those who know anything about the game, than this tinpot tour.

And, on balance, the Lions tour is far more important than what *may* be a *minor* set back in englands (non-existant) hopes of retaining the world cup, to me, to the vast majority of people who know anything about rugby, to everyone in the Lions camp, and, quite probably, to the likes of Jones, Monye, Sackey or Voyce (see, I know some names as well)

 

[1927]

Fuck me!
If the news that another Englishman,Johny Wilkinson,had been added to the tour wasnt enough,it now transpires taht Mark Cueto has also been called up!!!

Could someone please remind me which nation won the Grand Slam this year?

 

[Mr Retro]

Fuck me!
If the news that another Englishman,Johny Wilkinson,had been added to the tour wasnt enough,it now transpires taht Mark Cueto has also been called up!!!

Could someone please remind me which nation won the Grand Slam this year?

Who would you have taken instead of Cueto?

 

[Buds]

"Who would you have taken instead of Cueto?"

Kevin Morgan

 

[Mr Retro]

Kevin Morgan

Assume you want to win, now who would you have taken?

 

[1927]

Assume you want to win, now who would you have taken?

Kevin Morgan

 

[Mr Retro]

Kevin Morgan is a Journeyman. Cueto is a much better choice.

 

[slaar]

I agree, Cueto should have been on the plane in the first place.

Meanwhile:

British & Irish Lions team to face Argentina in Cardiff on Monday, May 23: G Murphy (Ireland); D Hickie (Ireland), O Smith (England), G D'Arcy (Ireland), S Williams (Wales), J Wilkinson (England), G Cooper (Wales); G Rowntree (England), S Byrne (Ireland), J Hayes (Munster), M O'Kelly (Ireland), D Grewcock (England), S Taylor (Scotland), L Moody (England), M Owen (Wales, capt)

Interesting selection, it's clearly not a test side because BOD isn't playing, half the welsh guys are unavailable too (Jones and Thomas in France, Henson with a tweaked hamstring etc); but at the same time there's guys in there who are good odds for at least one test start (Williams, Wilko, O'Kelly), although maybe not that many. Think it's a combo of Clive giving guys a chance to prove themselves (maybe little Shane Williams against some big Argies etc...)

My current test side (which obviously changes the whole time) is: Thomas, Lewsey, BOD, Henson, Williams, Wilko/Jones, Peel. Jenkins, Bulloch, White, O'Connell, O'Kelly, Corry, Dallaglio / Owen, Williams; out of those, that's only one / two starters in the Argies game...

In any case, it's come around very quickly, and very excited about the whole thing.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Me too.
Especially as I just got me a ticket on the cheap -

 

[Juice Terry]

Interesting selection, it's clearly not a test side because BOD isn't playing, half the welsh guys are unavailable too (Jones and Thomas in France, Henson with a tweaked hamstring etc); ...

None of the Sale players were considered either as they've got the Parker Pen final against Pau on Saturday. Nor grandad Back as he's probably going to be in gaol for lumping Jo Worsley. Gonna be a bit of a funny game I reckon, the Pumas are very weakened and haven't picked any European based players and were apparantly pretty close to pulling out altogether which would explain why he's not really picked any of the A list.

fwiw only two of that team would be test starters for me atm, O'Kelly and Moody. Will be interesting to see Cooper and Wilko together.

I shall be ringing up for my sky sports package to be turned on shortly. Getting up @ 8.00am and drinking beer every saturday will be such a chore for the next 8 weeks

 

[bendeus]

Me too.
Especially as I just got me a ticket on the cheap -

Damn! I only managed to get myself one on the expensive

Fun to be had though; going with an Englishman, another Taffy and an Irishman. Reckon the Pumas are going to give what appears to be a weaker lineup a pretty stiff test.

 

[bendeus]

..... the Pumas are very weakened and haven't picked any European based players and were apparantly pretty close to pulling out altogether which would explain why he's not really picked any of the A list.

Only just saw that. Ignore 74% of last post

 

[Juice Terry]

Only just saw that. Ignore 74% of last post

I wasn't 100% right as it goes, they will actually have 9 european based pros in the side.

The absentees will be Lucas Ostiglia, Martin Durand and Marcos Ayerza who are injured and Agustin Pichot, Rodrigo Roncero and Omar Hasan who all play in the HC final on Saturday.

Neil Back's been banned for four weeks. No point in him going on tour now.

 

[1927]

I wasn't 100% right as it goes, they will actually have 9 european based pros in the side.

The absentees will be Lucas Ostiglia, Martin Durand and Marcos Ayerza who are injured and Agustin Pichot, Rodrigo Roncero and Omar Hasan who all play in the HC final on Saturday.

Neil Back's been banned for four weeks. No point in him going on tour now.

Of course he'll go cos otherwise Sir Fuckin Baldy might have to pick a Welshman to replace him,of course there might be an englishman eho has never had a sniff of a cap who might be considered!

 

[slaar]

The wingeing from some of the Welsh is quite something on this thread.

Just to name one example, Kevin Morgan is a journeyman, Cueto a big, quick guy who has scored lots of tries at international and national level in the past few months and is on great form. It's not exactly a controversial decision.

I get the impression the only way you'd be happy was if the entire Welsh squad, and only them, was on the plane. In which case, we'd be losing not only the test series but a few of the other games too.

 

[jannerboyuk]

Well Argentina have given a good account of themselves so far - up 25 - 22 so far. I'm not to critical of Woodward that often but the forwards are getting a mauling so who does he sub? The scrum half of course! Hmm.
Cheers
Jeff