Britain's shame: importing trains

[Kanda]

But everybody can see you wank. Thant's progress for you.

 

[bluestreak]

 

[MrFalafel]

That very much depends on how the cost is calculated. What cost leaving people with meaningless McShit jobs or Britain losing its traditional industrial skills and manufacturing base?

You're not answering the question.

Dreaming about a bygone era is fine but its not realistic.

What would be the public outcry if Tuesdays Metro's headline was '15% increase in rail fares as Brown mandates all new trains to be made in Britain'?

 

[editor]

What would be the public outcry if Tuesdays Metro's headline was '15% increase in rail fares as Brown mandates all new trains to be made in Britain'?

If no idea and I'm not particularly interested in going along with your fantasy yarns.

 

[Crispy]

Other headlines might read '20,000 new (stable, useful, satisfying) jobs created'

 

[Kanda]

It's not a fantasy yarn, it's a hypothetical argument isn't it?

 

[London_Calling]

"It was the Unions!"
"No, it was inept middle-management!"
"It was lack of investment!"
"No, it was the fast buck culture in the City!"
"Bloody Government"

 

[MrFalafel]

It's not a fantasy yarn, it's a hypothetical argument isn't it?

Yes but its reality based and doesn't harken back to a nearly forgotten bygone era that we will never see again so therefore irrelevant to certain people.

 

[bi0boy]

I'd rather taxes went on something like hospitals than paying a premium to do work here that could just as well be done somewhere else.

 

[grimble]

It's Ricardo's comparative advantage - every nation/region should do what it's best at doing. In Japan's case that means technology, and for us that means - er - hairdressing and investment banking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

 

[zoltan]

The Japanse had a big hand in the DLR extention to the seething hellhole of Lewisham IIRC

The same company presented the Nash railway Museum with a bullet train a couple of years ago - importing it themsleves from Japan - theyse also patrons of whatever of the same museum

Its not like they arent into their railways - and do produce lovely trains

 

[editor]

It's not a fantasy yarn, it's a hypothetical argument isn't it?

Whatever you want to call it, I've no interest in debating the outcome of wildly improbable scenarios. But feel free to engage with it yourself if you're that interested.

 

[ymu]

Oh you know, for silly trifles like apprenticeships, employment, a meaningful job with real skills and a future for the working class areas where they were traditionally built.

The working class have been exported.
Technically, it's only the jobs so far but we will have to start exporting ourselves pretty soon.

 

[Poi E]

The Japanse had a big hand in the DLR extention to the seething hellhole of Lewisham IIRC

Nah, the French I believe.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's unlikely that Japanese labour is cheaper than British - and that's before you add on the costs of trasnporting the good across the world. (Which are substantial, which as it happens is one reason why skilled manufacturing jobs don't always, or even normally, end up in low-wage economies. Wage costs aren't the only costs here.)

 

[ymu]

I'd rather taxes went on something like hospitals than paying a premium to do work here that could just as well be done somewhere else.

I'd rather they went on paying skilled workers skilled workers' wages, increasing the tax income for the state but more importantly increasing the rate of flow of money to the people who need it. People on the poverty line don't spend money - people with a comfortable wage do. They spend it in local shops and leisure outlets and all sorts of local business who will struggle a little less and pay more tax back to the treasury.

It's a lot more efficient than paying it to a foreign corporation who will not spend the money locally, and probably won't even reinvest it in the UK.

 

[Crispy]

It's not a wages thing in this case anyway, it's an expertise thing. We don't have any expertise in 180mph trains, the japanese do. We don't have to spend any research money to buy theirs.

Of course, the ultimate logical conclusion of this process will create a nation of morons making money by moving money around and paying the rest of the world to do the hard work.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

In the final analysis, if you're paying other people to do what you could do yourself, it's entirely possible that you are paying out money you do not need to.

 

[Poi E]

Can't we have the tracks first?

 

[zoltan]

Nah, the French I believe.

UM

for the Lewisham extension


"Shareholders / Members / Partners:

Laing
40%
From:
To: Present

Mowlem
40%
From:
To: Present

Mitsui & Co Limited
12%
From:
To: Present

London Electricity plc
8%
From:
To: Present"

"Private Sector Contractor(s):
Nishimatsu Construction Limited - Design & Build
MBK Rail Link Construction Limited - Design & Build
Mitsui & Co Limited - Design & Build
Mowlem - Design & Build"


http://www.partnershipsuk.org.uk/ProjectsDatabase/casestudy.asp?PID=11128

Mitsui are big in trains and rail infrastructure

 

[editor]

It's not a wages thing in this case anyway, it's an expertise thing. We don't have any expertise in 180mph trains, the japanese do. We don't have to spend any research money to buy theirs.

The new trains only go 140mph.

The protype Inter City 125 train of 1973 went faster than that.

 

[Poi E]

Yeah, looks like I was wrong. But Mitsui no longer involved on the extensions:

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/docklands/

Any road, the best rail system in the UK And it goes to Lewisham.

 

[London_Calling]

I thought we were sucking in tens of thousands of workers because (a) Brits won't work for minimum wage, or (b) Brits don't have the right/any skills.

Ergo: Where would the skilled labour to build trains come from - Poland, etc.

 

[Crispy]

only 140?

well, it seemed really fast when we were on the eurostar last week

 

[T & P]

only 140?

I know, it seems pretty silly to use 140mph trains when the line is already used by 186mph trains.

Christ, even if brand new TGVs are too expensive there must be tons of pre-owned ones going cheaply. Aren't some Eurostar trains being used in domestic UK services anyway?

 

[ymu]

I thought we were sucking in tens of thousands of workers because (a) Brits won't work for minimum wage, or (b) Brits don't have the right/any skills.

Ergo: Where would the skilled labour to build trains come from - Poland, etc.

Since when did skilled workers earn minimum wage? And we didn't always import talent trained at someone else's expense, you know? We actually used to train people here, ourselves, all on our ownsome. If we ever want to get that back, we have to start somewhere.

 

[London_Calling]

Read it again you daft plank. See if you can find the word 'or'.

And have a look at the calander as well.

 

[ymu]

Read it again you daft plank. See if you can find the word 'or'.

Can you find the word "and" in mine?

I like this game.

And have a look at the calander as well.

We have a pro-globalisationista amongst us! Please, please, tell me why you believe. I so want to understand.

 

[Tom A]

British Rail sold their tiliting train technology to Fiat in Italy, which then became the Pendolino.

The old adage is true, we are good at inventing great things but we are crap at holding onto them.

 

[steveo87]

Oh you know, for silly trifles like apprenticeships, employment, a meaningful job with real skills and a future for the working class areas where they were traditionally built.

But now with cheaper computers they can go on t' interweb and create highly sucessful we forums......