Britain 'is now biggest security threat to US'
- Thread starter warren
- Start date
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Are they going to bomb us? We support terrorism 
Where's the:
"US is the biggest threat to security for the entire fucking world" option ...
"US is the biggest threat to security for the entire fucking world" option ...
david dissadent
New Member
This reeks of an article that reflects much of the Telegraphs own views.warren said:
A new enemy within for us to talk about, but by summarising the article and not endorsing it they can get away with spreading the ideas it raises.
ska invita
back on the other side
spot on.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
detective-boy said:Where's the:
"US is the biggest threat to security for the entire fucking world" option ...
So it wasn't islamic terrorists blew up your tube last year?
skunkboy69
Reverend of Eternal Light
detective-boy said:Where's the:
"US is the biggest threat to security for the entire fucking world" option ...
LOL My thoughts entirely.There probably wouldn't be terrorism if it wasn't for them.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
It ain't Britain that's the biggest threat to Us security...
or Iraq....
or Palestine....
or Iran...
....It's america, and spot on DB and skunkboy69.
Terror is a reaction - to the US/Israrel state terror
or Iraq....
or Palestine....
or Iran...
....It's america, and spot on DB and skunkboy69.
Terror is a reaction - to the US/Israrel state terror
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I was just going to say that; the biggest security threat to the US is the US government.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
But why did they do it?Johnny Canuck2 said:
They didn't just wake up one morning and think, hey, wouldn't it be fun to go and attack the London Underground?
Are you really, sincerely incapable of joining the dots? Can you not see the underlying reasons why Islamic extremism is on the rise? Are you alleging it has nothing to do with US foreign policy? And Blair being Bush's poodle and getting the Brits embroiled in Bush's misadventures?
Precisely. The difference between cause and symptom. Not that you'd expect the fuckwit Canuck to understand the difference - he's nothing if not predictable!AnnO'Neemus said:
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
AnnO'Neemus said:
I've yet to have it explained to me, in easy to understand, simple language, exactly what horrors or lacunae in life the average arab must go though, as a result of the US govt.
I don't mean people in Iraq or Afghanistan. I mean people in Pakistan, or Morocco, or Tunisia, etc. What is the US doing to them, or at least what do you allege the US is doing to them, to make it understandable that some of them want to commit terrorist acts in North America?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
detective-boy said:
Friend, you're the predictable one. No matter what happens, you can blame 'US foreign policy', even if you don't really have a clue what that is.
Doing that, like so many of you do, is so much simpler than trying to understand the complexity of modern international relations.
I suppose I can't blame you: doing the latter would require a substantial amount of time and effort, and wouldn't make for as exciting a discussion down the pub.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
err, why aren't iraqis 'average arabs'?
as to your question, tbh, it betrays such monumental, colossal ignorance of arab-western relations over the last 100 years, and arab societies, that it is virtually impossible to answer without saying 'for god's sake, please go and read a few books on the matter, or at least talk to a few arabs'.
as to your question, tbh, it betrays such monumental, colossal ignorance of arab-western relations over the last 100 years, and arab societies, that it is virtually impossible to answer without saying 'for god's sake, please go and read a few books on the matter, or at least talk to a few arabs'.
subversplat
writer of wrongs
Are we going to war with America? Aces! *arms self with AK47*
I'll start the Home Counties Guerilla Training Club, then
I'll start the Home Counties Guerilla Training Club, then
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
Because at the moment, their country is being occupied by the US, giving them a valid reason to be monumentally pissed off.
That state of affairs, ie the occupation, doesn't apply in the 'average' arab country. That's why I phrased my comment that way.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
I have read some books and articles, and I am continuing to do so, which puts me in a separate category from the vast majority of those who comment on these issues.
But in any event, I'm still waiting for a concise explanation for this hatred. Tbh, from what I've read, I could understand a healthy hatred for the British and French in that area, since you're talking about the last century, but it's the US that seems to always get mentioned.
Are you going to help us all out on this one?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
Have you ever heard the old dictum that if you can't explain something simply and logically, then you probably don't understand it yourself?
I think it was Einstein said it.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
mebbe, but I'll bet just about every single thing you're reading on this issueis written by an NAer, or possibly an Israeli, and there is such a general, total, incomprehension of the arab world in NA, that you might as well be reading the Arabian nights.Johnny Canuck2 said:
Jesus wept....right. let's try looking at this from the arab POV shall we?
first, there is, and always has been, a very strong sense of pan-arabic solidarity at the grassroots, at the level of the man in the street, that goes all the way back to the ummah.
Therefore, an injury to one is felt as an injury to all.
Note; this solidarity is not felt (or certainly, not acted on) by their ruling castes - their total lack of solidarity over the Israel issue, egypt and syria excepted, is a disgrace.
There are three key issues here, and the first is Israel.
israel, when all is said and done came about when a bunch of european settlers staged a 60-year annexation of lands that the Palestinian arabs had farmed and settled on for the best part of 1700 years. this land was taken by force, with most of the palestinians driven out; to west bank or gaza if they were lucky, to jordan, syria, lebanon or even further afield if not. There are some Israeli arabs; they are very much second class citizens. since 1967 israel has effectively operated an apartheid state, with the palestinians living in hardship and misery.
This issue provokes, and has always provoked fury and hatred throughout the arab world.
why america then? simple. israel would have gone years ago but for the USA. It has provided HUGE amounts of aid - amounting at times to 205 of Israel's GDP. it has helped arm israel to the teeth. Israel's impressive military state did not only come from the US - france, england etc also supplied, but without US support being so clear and unambiguous it would never have got thyem.
above all else it has given 100% support in the UN, exercising its' veto for Israel, and turning a blind eye to every UN resolution that israel has blandly ignored.
issue 2; rotten regimes> Due to the US economy's reliance on cheap oil, it has expended huge amounts of energy on ensuring the ;'right' people are ion power. Saddam was its' man, before he screwed up (by trusting assuranceas from the US embassy that they would do nothing if he invaded Kuwait); the US ensured saddam was armed to the teeth and more or less ordered him to invade Iran, in a war known for its huge body count.
It props up the House of saud; the emir of kuwait; of Qatar; and the rulers of the UAE. It also propped up the Shah for 40 years.
All these are truly rotten regimes, as are the US allies in Tunisia and egypt.
next, there is a huge US presence on land and sea, in and around the gulf.
there is a widespread sense throughout the arabs and muslim world of the US as a bully, and the Al-q propaganda line of the zionist-crusader conspiracy to subjugate arabs and take their land and wealth is falling into very receptive ears. They removed the US soldiers guarding Islamic holy places after 9/11 - but they had been there for years. you couldn't think of a worse isnult to a muslim.
finally, there is the US manner. rather too many of your mates down south have an absolute genius for rubbing people up the wrong way. i've seen it in the flesh - wherever they go, so many seem to have the knack of coming across in a condescending, bullying, overbearing and downright racist way, individually and collectively.
I am not by any means referring to all americans or even all sep expats; just those with status, power or authority, IME.
This is the brief outline of some of the reasons for the hatred - others can add more.
E2A; there is a HUGE concept of 'honour' within arab society and culture. when they feel as monumentally 'insulted' as they do feel re; the USA, it's tantamount to a declaration of war.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
err, right, so anyone who has neither time nor energy to correct your gaping incom[prehension to something that's as clear as day over here obviously doesn't know about it?Johnny Canuck2 said:
Yeah, brilliant logic that.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
johnny, you surprise me! I thought your previous 'line' was the dubya one of your brave heroes going to liberate them from an evil tyranny? surely bya ll your statements at the time of the invasion, they should be 'monumentally' grateful?Johnny Canuck2 said:
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
How about Bernard Lewis?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
Fair enough, but I'd contend that a faith that preaches that an injury to the one, in Indonesia, say, is an insult to all, with the potential consequences of a jihad by the all, is atavistic, harking back to the days of the blood feud, and that the progress toward peace will be hampered by such an attitude.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
Israel was not created by the US; it was created by the UN, and could not have been created without the active intervention of the British Empire, but that's water under the bridge, I suppose.
The modern reality was that Israel was created, and the jews who moved there, many after the holocaust, were immediately put in peril by their arab neighbors. Given the circumstances of the time, I think it was commendable for the US to provide them aid.
I think it unlikely that the US will abandon Israel, and if arab states and individuals are unable to accept Israel's existence, and also hate the US as a consequence, then it's my opinion that there are two locomotives heading toward one another on the same track.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
I'd be happy for you to point to a time when that part of the world wasn't dominated by rotten regimes, going back to and including the ottomans, but again, that's just history, isn't it?
Another complicating and therefore stultifying aspect to that regiion's history would also be the role played by the cold war, and the regimes propped up by the USSR; also, the intrigues of Britain and France are also involved.
But as to your main point, where does Europe get its oil from? From what I can gather, the European govts are quite happy to have complicit regimes in power in the oil producing countries, but are also willing to let the US be the apparent lead player, and attract the lion's share of the heat as a result.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Red Jezza said:
Possibly, but that may be a consequence of empire. What could have been worse than the attitude of your imperial functionaries to the wogs inhabiting the world beyond the Channel?
If you want tales of imperial arrogance, come over here and listen to stories told by native americans of their dealings with HM govt, or the imperially mandated Hudson's Bay Company.
I think the difference is that the Brits were arrogant, but were also more ruthless in suppressing dissent in the conquered countries.
The americans often display a sense of 'entitlement' that is galling to us foreigners, but their belief in egalitarianism, fantasy or not, tends to prevent them from taking steps to ensure that the locals must avert their eyes as their overlords pass, as the british did.
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