Britain First

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by nicedream, May 11, 2014.

  1. Thimble Queen

    Thimble Queen person of tinge

    I'm a bit tired and got Manchester/Nottingham mixed up and misread you. Sorry I probably seemed a bit short.
  2. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    As I said, it was just a passing observation after reading the linked article.

    I used to walk past that pub every day as a kid on my way home from school so I guess it stick out a bit.
  3. So if we both get assaulted on a night out, receive the same injuries etc with the only difference being that some racial epithets are thrown your direction amongst the abuse we both receive, do you:

    A) think the perpetrators deserve harsher treatment for your attack than mine?


    B) by what degree should their punishment be harsher?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  4. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    I've mentioned this before, but years ago I was walking home from work around midnight, and there was a bunch Asian lads walking on the opposite side of the road. One of them crossed over and threatened to bottle me because I was white. I wss able diffuse the situation and he went back to the others. As it happens one of the others had crossed over at the same time and walked a little way behind us, and he came up to me apologized, said the other guy was drunk and he wouldn't have let anything happen.

    The point of this is being the odd sort I am, as I carried on with my walk home, I considered the politics of this and what it would have meant if I had actually been attacked.

    Any attack would clearly have had a racial motivation to it. But I realized that this would not mean I was a victim of racism. Whatever the impact an attack, being attacked for being white would have no more impact on me than being attacked for no reason, or because I wear glasses. Being a victim of racism is not about single isolated incidents, however unpleasant they may be. Racism is a constant presence, that impacts people's lives in a multitude of ways. I realised that while I (a white English person in Britain) could be a victim of a racially motivated attack, I cannot experience racism. There is a qualitative difference between the two.

    But whether that difference should affect sentencing is another question and one I am going to duck. No least because the law would no doubt disagree with me, and would treat an attack on me the same as an attack on someone for being black.

    Edited to add 'English'.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Almor, Fozzie Bear and seventh bullet like this.
  5. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

  6. When people state that white people can’t experience racism in the same way that black people do I’m always reminded of the those notes put in windows or newspapers of no blacks, no Irish, no dogs.
    Presumably it wasn’t as bad for the Irish.
  7. Thimble Queen

    Thimble Queen person of tinge

    See my post above.
  8. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    Oh come on, that's not a fair reading and you know it. But if it helps I'll make a slight edit.
  9. It was meant as a wider point and something that identity politics always overlooks. It wasn’t just brown people who were under the colonial heel or experience racial abuse in the U.K. But these arguments always boil it down to exactly that.
  10. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    The judiciary reserve enormous rights to themselves over discretion in sentencing in any case.
  11. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    When did it become acceptable for any efforts to combat racism to be sneered at as identity politics? It's fucking depressing. I totally get the critique of where identity politics has led us but you know, throwing babies out with the bathwater and all that.
  12. ddraig

    ddraig dros ben llestri

    it's not acceptable it's just shitheads like magnus and their shitty agendas
    see the alt right mob and people who keep saying antifa are as bad as fascists etc, loads of dullards and liberals have lapped it up
    elbows, 19force8 and Rutita1 like this.
  13. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Possibly, but I think we need to be careful with what we call "racially motivated/aggravated". If the person assaulting me just happened to call me a black bastard whilst he was doing it, it wouldn't necessarily be a racially motivated attack. If however he has told his mates before he did it "I'm going to slap a paki tonight" then it most certainly would be. In the latter case then yes. Certainly it should be punished more harshly than a similarly weighted (but non-racially motivated) attack on you. If the attack on you was racially based then the same would apply.

    We have largely decided that racism/religious hatred etc, are unacceptable so when there is an element of these present in other crimes we load the punishment because we consider it to be even more serious than had those crimes happened in isolation. I really cant see why you would think otherwise.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    Nylock, Dogsauce, Combustible and 5 others like this.
  14. I’m not sure how you’d know that someone had privately expressed that they were planning on committing a racial attack beyond their mates dobbing them in, which is why I used the example of racial epithets being used during an attack.

    I agree they’re unacceptable but what was being discussed was that if someone decides to give someone a clip because of their behaviour and they end up in the dock because of it then they could be treated more harshly for twatting a brown nonce than a white one.
    And then the conversation moved onto protected characteristics and the hypothetical situation I posed to you (in response to one posed to me) which you found difficult to answer. And I knew you would find it difficult to answer.
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh, it's the regular friday hangover :(
  16. Are you referring to me? I don’t drink on school nights anymore.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  17. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Don't be daft, I just gave that as an example. There are plenty of situations where an attack could clearly and sensibly be deemed racially or religiously motivated. This Bratain First shit was one. You're just trying to focus on those where the lines are blurred (and trying to blur the lines yourself).
    No, what was being discussed was Fransen and the other dickhead picking on people because they are Muslims. You then extrapolated it for some reason.
    I don't think it's at all difficult to answer. It's pretty clear mate.
    ddraig, NoXion and Pickman's model like this.
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  19. I extrapolated nothing. Mistaken identities aside, it was connected to a rape case.
    Anyway I don’t want to appear that I’m defending that pair of cunts but the implications stretch wider than that.
  20. Oh.
  21. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Mistaken identities aside, I haven’t seen Fransen and Golding banging on the doors of any non-Muslim nonces. What does that tell you?
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    they don't know where they live
  23. Yes I know why they’re doing it. I’d still argue that bumping their sentences up in this way has done them more favours than harm.
  24. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    If Britain First is anything like the EDL they wouldn't have to look hard to find them. A quick glance at their membership list would do the trick.
  25. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    TBH, if it's a bit late for you to worry about appearing to defend them, because your on-going dishonest misrepresentation of what racially aggravated harassment actually means creates EXACTLY that impression.
    NoXion and lazythursday like this.
  26. Oh look, an anarchist supporting state sanctions.
  27. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    I'm not supporting state sanctions, I'm criticising your seemingly deliberate misrepresentations of what this particular law actually means, and people's attempts to downplay the seriousness of racial harassment.

    Your stated concern that this law might be used against anti-fascists would be comical if it weren't such a dishonest attempt to muddy the waters, and your whole exchange with Spymaster is similarly dishonest.
    ddraig, NoXion and lazythursday like this.
  28. You’re not supporting state sanctions, you’re just making sure the law is applied correctly to your political opponents. :facepalm:
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i don't know about you but i was pleased when charlie sargent out of c18 was put away for murder. i don't see taking some pleasure from the jailing of fascists as bad. it doesn't mean you support the whole state structure, it means taking pleasure in bad things happening to bad people.
  30. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Why? How on earth is it doing them favours? You think it acts as a recruiting sergeant for BF or something daft like that? The only people getting up in arms about this are dickheads like them.

    You are basically advocating that racism, as an element of other crimes, should go unpunished. Bonkers.
    cupid_stunt, ddraig, NoXion and 2 others like this.

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