Bringing up children as vegans: "unethical and harming"

[XerxesVargas]

Counterprductive!!!

Wouldn't want to defend that set of circumstances, and yes it does sound something like brainwashing in that particular case.

I've never come across anything similar myself though ... and I've known a lot of veggies. The militant ones with brainwashing tendencies are I suspect in a far tinier minority than Harrison Slade's prejudices would like to accept ...

Will say more later, but please bear in my mind that my earlier response to HS was consciously throwing back the same accusations that he made back into his face, in the same insulting terms that he himself used. Will repond properly to your first long post on this thread** when I get a chance to reread it properly, but for now compare HS's post with the general run of posts from veggies on this thread and decide for yurself who's being the more intolerent.

**Particularly your very contentious analogy between veggies being intolerent (which I don't think they have been anyway, on THIS thread) and the so called anti Christian intolerence that you perceive around these forums. Most people are and have been capable of distinguishing between mainstream Christianity, and American Neocon Republican Evangelism .. so should you when you make that criticism

Must dash NOW!

I agree wholeheartedly that the term "brainwashing" refers to this specific case, with the specific set of circumstances I have outlined. But it is brainwashing. I'm not holding that out as an example of all veggies or as a trait of veggie behaviour. I think you have seen the word brain washing (and i can understand why you have a prob with it in this wider context) and got stuck. As i said I'm married to a veggie and have no probs at all with it.

I further agree that it is mainly the carinivors on this thread being dogmatic and aggressive. But then a lot of them just dont understand veggieism.

My point wasnt about intolerance on this thread. My point was that if you change veggie to Xtian then a good few of those who are arguing that parents should be albe to bring thier kids up as they please, as long as they do it responsibly, would be arguing the opposite, that parents shouldnt impose thier views on their kids.

 

[XerxesVargas]

If a child asked to goto McDonalds, for a burger and fries, and a parent turned round and told him that he had to do without because some cows got killed, and the ozone layer was going to burn through his skull one day, I would report the cunts to the NSPCC for sure.

I wont take my neice nephew into any burger-style-bar for food. Why? Well because the food is shit and the companies that flog it are a bit dodgy too.

NSPCC? Behave yourself. You making yourself sound like a bit of a fool.

 

[tarannau]

I wont take my neice nephew into any burger-style-bar for food. Why? Well because the food is shit and the companies that flog it are a bit dodgy too.

NSPCC? Behave yourself. You making yourself sound like a bit of a fool.

Hear hear. Old Slade may have had a little too much tartrazine/troll juice as a child I reckon...

 

[madzone]

If a child asked to goto McDonalds, for a burger and fries, and a parent turned round and told him that he had to do without because some cows got killed, and the ozone layer was going to burn through his skull one day, I would report the cunts to the NSPCC for sure.

I'm quite likely to tell my kids they can't have McDonalds. If you like I'll video it happening and you can send it to the NSPCC. I'd fucking love to hear what they'd say to you if you reported a parent for that

 

[tobyjug]

I wont take my neice nephew into any burger-style-bar for food. Why? Well because the food is shit and the companies that flog it are a bit dodgy too.

NSPCC? Behave yourself. You making yourself sound like a bit of a fool.

My brother, who drives coaches for a living often takes groups of children out on various trips. He plans his route to avoid MacDonalds.

 

[eeyore]

I spent a year living with a vegan bloke and three other people. We decided that we would cook communal meals that every one could eat so, when this guy was at home of an evening all meals had to be vegan. I learnt more about nutrition and cooking in that year than the rest of my life - the only missing ingregient for a child, I think, would be calcium which can be corrected through supplements.

 

[ddraig]

My brother, who drives coaches for a living often takes groups of children out on various trips. He plans his route to avoid MacDonalds.

that's refreshing to hear! props to you're brother

 

[William of Walworth]

I've known at least 4 veggie parents who have called meat eating evil in my presence while talking to their kids, and more than a few on this board who have made similar comments on related veggie threads (viz AR2048 and Carole K on ANY thread relating to animals), as well as the familiar 'vegetarians live longer, have better skin' lines etc, so please stop denying that some vegetarians do it.



I've met herbis who do just that, keep themselves to themselves. I've also met more than a few proselytising herbis and they're just as annoying, dogmatic and morally superior as sky-pixie followers because in their minds they know what they are doing is morally right.

And would you be happy to cook meat dishes for your children if they wanted them?

My answer to that last question is no -- but strictly hypothetically, because (a) we have no plans to have kids and (b) Stig isn't veggie and has as much of a say in this as I do.

She can speak for herself if she reads this, but I'd like to turn around that question on its head kyser, and ask whether you think it's right that vegetarian (or vegan) parents shouldn't be allowed to bring up their children in the way that they choose (assuming they take good care of the nutritional requrements of a growing child and don't neglect their general health).

The prevailing cultural attitude in society, even in as relatively veggie friendly a one as the UK, is that kids/people are missing out by not eating meat. But if parents have reached the ethical/health based/whatever decision to go veggie themselves, what in hell is so strange and unatural about bringing their children up as veggies too? As I said in an earlier post, I was brought up as a veggie from birth, I was offered the option (when older) to decide for myself whether or not I tried meat, and I never did. You'd see this as indoctrination on my parents' part perhaps, I'd see it as having been nrought up healthy and with good nutirtional awreness (even though I'm a shit cook!) and never having missed anything and not feeling deprived.

Who are you, or Harrison Slade., to say that me or my parents were/are wrong in these perceptions? Your apparant perception that veggie parents indoctrinate their kids by 'forcing' them to not eat meat doesn't extend, I notice, to any criticism by you of any parents who bring their kids up as meat eaters -- are they also being indoctrinated into eating meat, being forced, when fed meat at an age when they are too young to really understand what it is? By the logic of your position they are ....

 

[William of Walworth]

My problem isn't with vegetarianism, it is with not allowing your children the choice to taste something they may like. As for intollerance around other issues in the home. Bollocks have I never said that no other issue matters. Parents do not have the right to tell a child which one of them gets custody, that homosexuality is wrong or that community is the only way to create a better society, and act like it's fact "so shut the fuck up little boy and drink up your sour tasting soya milk". If my mother had constantly given me lettuce and meals containing five different beans instead of burger and chips, hot dogs and fish fingers, and coerced me to adopting a similar attitude at school, I would have, rightly, got the shit beaten out of me. Kids like junk food made from dodgy meat products. Kids don't like weird beans and rabbit food. If a child asked to goto McDonalds, for a burger and fries, and a parent turned round and told him that he had to do without because some cows got killed, and the ozone layer was going to burn through his skull one day, I would report the cunts to the NSPCC for sure.

Glad you were brought up and continue to enjoy a balanced diet Harrison, with exactly the correct proportions of brain-food ....

Note carefully the number of meat eaters subsequent to that pile of cretinous rubbish, who have agreed with you ... **

**Clue : it's none ...

And not all people posting on this thread are veggioes/vegans, or indeed as full of Littlejohn style prejudiced shit as you!




Or just maybe ...








Carry on Agent Slade ... our plan to indoctrinate the world into being vegetarian is beginning succeed thanks to your sterling work ....

 

[invisibleplanet]

I wont take my neice nephew into any burger-style-bar for food. Why? Well because the food is shit and the companies that flog it are a bit dodgy too.

NSPCC? Behave yourself. You making yourself sound like a bit of a fool.

I told my kid about the deforestation throughout the eighties &so on by MacDonalds and he refuses to eat there. 'Trees are the lungs of our planet' he told me. I agreed with him. Hurrah!

Report me to the NSPCC. Report the School for teaching him about the lungs of the planet while you're at it.

Then report McDonalds for using Chinese plastic bribes which are also causing widespread pollution of the Bahai Basin while you're at it, will you

 

[pk]

Kids make their own choice of diet - when they are sixteen.

Until then, they get fed a square meal, red meat, white meat, green veg and salad, all sourced as best as possibly, naturally, but there aren't any kids I've ever met that have been forced into complying with their parents vegetarian lifestyle that don't look pale, pasty, weak, anaemic and potentially bulemic.

I'd sooner give my kid a diet of school dinners, all chips and gravy, than feed him on rabbit food.

As it is, he eats better food than me and the missus put together!

Steamed spinach! Roast beef! Baby carrots! Chicken casserole!!

What's worst is that we prepare these fresh banquets for him - then order a fucking pizza/curry/chinese for ourselves!!

DOH!

 

[William of Walworth]

Kids make their own choice of diet - when they are sixteen.

Until then, they get fed a square meal, red meat, white meat, green veg and salad, all sourced as best as possibly, naturally, but there aren't any kids I've ever met that have been forced into complying with their parents vegetarian lifestyle that don't look pale, pasty, weak, anaemic and potentially bulemic.

I'd sooner give my kid a diet of school dinners, all chips and gravy, than feed him on rabbit food.

As it is, he eats better food than me and the missus put together!

Steamed spinach! Roast beef! Baby carrots! Chicken casserole!!

What's worst is that we prepare these fresh banquets for him - then order a fucking pizza/curry/chinese for ourselves!!

DOH!

Bit in bold : Complete bollocks!!! There is no statistical evidence whatsoever for that misperception (based on what you already think perhaps??)

No-one's stopping parents feeding their child meat and bringing them up as meateaters -- that's completely up to them. So why on earth do some meateaters (not just PK) insist on their right to lecture veggies on what's best for their children?? And why do some contributors on this thread, notably Harrison How Dare Vegetarian Parents Indoctrinate Their Children -- It's Child Abuse' Slade, then feel feel free to suggest that children of vegetarian parents must be malnourished, neglected, abused, whatever, and that they're being 'forced' or 'indoctrinated' into not eating meat?

I would call PK's prescription above as forcing and indoctrinating his child into eating meat, well I would say that, if to say so wasn't completely ridiculous for me to do so ...

Up to him and other meateating parents what they do. I think that within obvious limits it should be up to everyone veggie, vegan or otherwise, to decide how they want to bring up their children. As has been said many times on this thread, a large proportion of veggie parents are very nutriotion aware and take good care to get a balanced diet together. It's a bit of pain for them to be told by someone who isn't even vegetarian (and thus is bound to know less about it), that theylre bringiung up their child to be weak and malnourished ... especially when the 'McDonalds Coke and crisps' diet favoured by so many parents is (let's put it mildly!) no better than any vegetarian diet in terms of a child's health ...

I favour beer as an essential part of a healthy balanced diet myself

 

[gaijingirl]

Kids make their own choice of diet - when they are sixteen.

Until then, they get fed a square meal, red meat, white meat, green veg and salad, all sourced as best as possibly, naturally, but there aren't any kids I've ever met that have been forced into complying with their parents vegetarian lifestyle that don't look pale, pasty, weak, anaemic and potentially bulemic.

I'd sooner give my kid a diet of school dinners, all chips and gravy, than feed him on rabbit food.

As it is, he eats better food than me and the missus put together!

Steamed spinach! Roast beef! Baby carrots! Chicken casserole!!

What's worst is that we prepare these fresh banquets for him - then order a fucking pizza/curry/chinese for ourselves!!

DOH!

Potentially bullimic... WTF!! You must be the least well informed person ever to post... or are you just joking.. tell me you're not for real?!! How can you tell, just by looking, at these forced into being vegetarian, pale, pasty, weak kids which seem to proliferate amongst your acquaintances that they are potentially bullimic and/or bullimic?

By the way, rabbit food is what is fed to rabbits. Calling vegetarian food rabbit food is just stupid. If you eat a cheese omelette and chips, or a margherita pizza, or a sag aloo..these are all veggy

Today, for lunch, I will be choosing from:

Caramelised onion, thyme and Emmental quiche with rosemary roast potato and salad

Chinese marinated vegetables with saffron rice and tamari toasted cashews

Aubergine, potato and halloumi moussaka with salad leaves


.... rabbits eat pellets, hay, water and fresh vegetables.

Honestly, there are some meat eaters out there who do manage a rational argument for meat eating, but posts like yours are just so laughable ...

 

[madzone]

Today, for lunch, I will be choosing from:

Caramelised onion, thyme and Emmental quiche with rosemary roast potato and salad

Chinese marinated vegetables with saffron rice and tamari toasted cashews

Aubergine, potato and halloumi moussaka with salad leaves

Are you cooking that? And if so are you interested in turning lesbian?

 

[Cotch]

Are you cooking that? And if so are you interested in turning lesbian?

was that supposed to be funny?

 

[madzone]

was that supposed to be funny?

 

[Cotch]

hairy muff then

 

[Arik]

Kids make their own choice of diet - when they are sixteen.

Until then, they get fed a square meal, red meat, white meat, green veg and salad, all sourced as best as possibly, naturally, but there aren't any kids I've ever met that have been forced into complying with their parents vegetarian lifestyle that don't look pale, pasty, weak, anaemic and potentially bulemic

Exhibit A: Arik as a kid. Healthy little chubby-faced angel that i was.

Didnt need meat then, dont need it now.

 

[felixthecat]

but there aren't any kids I've ever met that have been forced into complying with their parents vegetarian lifestyle that don't look pale, pasty, weak, anaemic and potentially bulemic.

PSML!!! You should see my son - age 15, 6' 1" tall, plays rugby, football, tennis and every other sport available (I spend most of my spare time on various touchlines) and he's been a veggie all his life.

 

[gaijingirl]

Are you cooking that? And if so are you interested in turning lesbian?

Nope I'm not cooking that, it's a great cafe in the crypt of a church near where I work called The Place Below (they have a cook book too).. but I do cook those kinds of food very often. Tonight I will be having leftover Gujerati carrot and spinach rice layer pie with crushed almonds and also homemade sag aloo and tarkha dahl. All very cheap and bloody gorgeous. The main problem is making the time to cook well. I don't usually have time during weekdays, but I try and take an afternoon out at the weekends to plan my cooking. When I don't I can easily lapse into being a lazy and not particularly healthy veggie!

Sorry...no real interest in turning lesbian at the moment... although I suspect if I mention the possibility to my boyfriend and it could involve both him and large amounts of quality food he will be most upset at my refusal..

That moussaka sounds lush dunnit! Can't wait for lunchtime!!

 

[madzone]

Nope I'm not cooking that, it's a great cafe in the crypt of a church near where I work called The Place Below (they have a cook book too).. but I do cook those kinds of food very often. Tonight I will be having leftover Gujerati carrot and spinach rice layer pie with crushed almonds and also homemade sag aloo and tarkha dahl. All very cheap and bloody gorgeous. The main problem is making the time to cook well. I don't usually have time during weekdays, but I try and take an afternoon out at the weekends to plan my cooking. When I don't I can easily lapse into being a lazy and not particularly healthy veggie!

Sorry...no real interest in turning lesbian at the moment... although I suspect if I mention the possibility to my boyfriend and it could involve both him and large amounts of quality food he will be most upset at my refusal..

That moussaka sounds lush dunnit! Can't wait for lunchtime!!

 

[pk]

Ladies and gentlefolk, may I present the evidence...

Once a healthy meateater from Gary, Indiana... this fine young man though it a good idea to turn vegan...

It wouldn't be so bad if he was actually proven to be Goth...

 

[caBBages]

a closer look at the BBC article will show that it is from research done by the US agricultural department.... basically the meat industry. It is clearly in their interest to have us believe that meat and dairy are necessary for us (this is simply false, much research shows that they are in fact damaging). Much of the American economy grew from their cattle industry and it is still centrally important.
Do not believe everything that you hear on the news.

 

[pk]

You are what you eat, Mr caBBage.