bring the routemasters back? the poll

[KeyboardJockey]

It gets worse.

Or better depending on your point of view

He's likely to conceed to Porsche over the CO2 charge. I doubt that the settlement amount will ever be published online but it has to be several million at least just to cover court costs.

This was basically KL inspired gesture politics and sadly there will be costs in putting this right. If you want to point the finger of blame point it at KL who brought this in.

Then it's quite likely he's going to dismantle the western extension to the congestion charge. That's going to cost him several million in consultation costs, maybe a million to remove the cameras and make good, plus about £50 million a year in lost revenue.

Again another KL cock up which has to be amended. Also you mention lost revenue but how much of that revenue would have ended up in the pockets of the company that operates the CC Zone? Too much IMO. Part of the objections to the CC policy is that there was no accountability as to where the money went. Far too much went to the contractors and was not re invested in road, rail and tube.

Then he's got the hike in diesel prices to account for.

Thats going to a problem to all who run diesel engined vehicles not just TFL.

 

[citydreams]

This was basically KL inspired gesture politics and sadly there will be costs in putting this right. If you want to point the finger of blame point it at KL who brought this in.

Opinion polls, in the majority, show that Londoners are in favour of the government taking tougher action over the environment.

TfL's research found that those willing to pay the £25 charge were high income earners. I find it absolutely bizarre that you think they should pay the same tax as low income earners.

But what would I know, I've never voted Tory.

Also you mention lost revenue but how much of that revenue would have ended up in the pockets of the company that operates the CC Zone? Too much IMO.

You ask because you don't actually know. Yet you still manage to have an opinion! You're a quality nutbag!

Thats going to a problem to all who run diesel engined vehicles not just TFL.

But less of a problem under Ken because he had his priorities right - affordable public transport for all.

 

[editor]

Yesterday we were stuck in a huge, slow moving traffic queue on Kingsway.

The bus stop was about 100m away. The driver isn't allowed to open the doors until he arrives at the stop.
So, 10 hot, uncomfortable minutes wasted out of my life. On a Routemaster we would have just hopped off.

 

[citydreams]

The driver isn't allowed to open the doors until he arrives at the stop.
So, 10 hot, uncomfortable minutes wasted out of my life. On a Routemaster we would have just hopped off.

They are allowed to open the doors. How else would they let people off if the bus breaks down?

I think you were a bit unlucky with your driver.

 

[RaverDrew]

Yesterday we were stuck in a huge, slow moving traffic queue on Kingsway.

The bus stop was about 100m away. The driver isn't allowed to open the doors until he arrives at the stop.
So, 10 hot, uncomfortable minutes wasted out of my life. On a Routemaster we would have just hopped off.

That's what the emergency exit buttons are for.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

They are allowed to open the doors. How else would they let people off if the bus breaks down?

I think you were a bit unlucky with your driver.

No they aren't, health and safety and all that. There is procedure for bus breakdowns, plus you need to get to the kerb. As a cyclist I have crashed twice because a kindly bus driver opened the doors in static traffic and people just walked out into my path. Good job I'm not a motor bike.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

My post was really pointing to the disability access designed into the bus.

Yes well all the new designs have to include disability access and a door instead of the hop on hop off back. Sounds a bit like an expensive tailor made version of a regular bus to me.

 

[Urbanblues]

Yes well all the new designs have to include disability access and a door instead of the hop on hop off back. Sounds a bit like an expensive tailor made version of a regular bus to me.

Trying to board buses in wheelchairs is problematic under any circumstances. Overcrowded bus stops make it hard for the driver to see us; trying to line the doors at the centre of the bus up, so as they’re not opening on a sloped pavement or in front of obstructions such as bins, lampposts or street signage posts; getting passengers to actually move out of the designated wheelchair spaces are all problems.

By placing the wheelchair boarding point and designated spaces at the front of the bus would eliminate some of the problems currently encountered by wheelies, and drivers.

 

[editor]

Good grief, that capoco one involves a whole bunch of technologies that aren't even mature yet. Large lithium ion batteries, wheel mounted motors, hydrogen engine. AFAIK, none of these technologies are beyond the pilot study stage. We'd be paying for a lot of R&D.

No wai!!! Boris said it would happen!


*ace bus design though

 

[Urbanblues]

No wai!!! Boris said it would happen!

That's the bit that sticks in my craw!

*ace bus design though

 

[editor]

Just a thought here, but who actually prefers the modern upstairs interior design of buses with no opening windows at the front compared to the Routemaster's user-operated windows that provided a lovely cooling breeze?

 

[brix]

Just a thought here, but who actually prefers the modern upstairs interior design of buses with no opening windows at the front compared to the Routemaster's user-operated windows that provided a lovely cooling breeze?

Spot on! That's one of the main reasons I miss the Routemasters. New buses are just like big greenhouses in the summer.

 

[citydreams]

No they aren't, health and safety and all that. There is procedure for bus breakdowns, plus you need to get to the kerb. As a cyclist I have crashed twice because a kindly bus driver opened the doors in static traffic and people just walked out into my path. Good job I'm not a motor bike.

Again, it's down to the bus driver isn't it? If a bus breaks down and he can pull over to the kerb, sure, he can let you out there. But if it breaks down in the middle of the road? What, like you're all supposed to stay on?!

imo, if you're stuck in traffic then, to a reasonable degree, the bus transport system has broken down. In that case, it is the bus driver's responsibility to ensure you get off the bus safely. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

[Urbanblues]

Just a thought here, but who actually prefers the modern upstairs interior design of buses with no opening windows at the front compared to the Routemaster's user-operated windows that provided a lovely cooling breeze?

Could you describe it to me please?

 

[citydreams]

Could you describe it to me please?

There were the same styled handles that you would use to wind down a car door window, though only slightly larger that a letter box. Half of them were stuck and would never wind up, and the other half were stuck and would never wind down.

 

[Urbanblues]

There were the same styled handles that you would use to wind down a car door window, though only slightly larger that a letter box. Half of them were stuck and would never wind up, and the other half were stuck and would never wind down.

O.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

imo, if you're stuck in traffic then, to a reasonable degree, the bus transport system has broken down. In that case, it is the bus driver's responsibility to ensure you get off the bus safely. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Well if you ran the bus companies maybe you could add that to your guidelines. All I am saying is that it they are told not to let people off if it's not at a stop. You said that they are allowed to. They aren't. If they should be allowed to or not is another matter.

If a bus breaks down in the street the bus driver has to follow safety procedure, set up the warnings and guide the people off safely him/herself. Not quite the same as being stuck in traffic.

 

[citydreams]

All I am saying is that it they are told not to let people off if it's not at a stop. You said that they are allowed to. They aren't. .

There's a difference between "being told not to do something" and "not being allowed to do something". Since when did PT employees become jobsworths?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

There's a difference between "being told not to do something" and "not being allowed to do something". Since when did PT employees become jobsworths?

You said "they are allowed to open the doors", I just said that wasn't true. For insurance and H&S reasons they are not allowed to open the doors. Of course they can open the doors if they really want to. They can beat someone over the head with a pickaxe, but they are not allowed to by law.

 

[citydreams]

Which H&S directive?

I can understand legislation being enacted to prevent drivers cruising with the doors open, but I've not seen anything that makes it illegal for a driver to assist a passenger in disembarking while stuck in traffic.

A bit of a laugh
http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/4329

 

[Gixxer1000]

For insurance and H&S reasons they are not allowed to open the doors. .

Correct, rightly or wrongly, they have a duty of care.

 

[Gixxer1000]

a driver to assist a passenger in disembarking while stuck in traffic.

They dont get out of their cubicle thing and assist you - they push a button which opens the doors.
Problems occur with cycles/ m bikes who could feasibly be filtering past.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Which H&S directive?

I can understand legislation being enacted to prevent drivers cruising with the doors open, but I've not seen anything that makes it illegal for a driver to assist a passenger in disembarking while stuck in traffic.

A bit of a laugh
http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/4329

Oh FFS, it's for bus drivers. The drivers can assist people getting off but they can't if they also have to stay in their seats because they are driving. The driver needs to actually get out and guide passengers off the bus to cover regs.

The example of the two collisions that I mentioned earlier are the reason why.

It's not even health and safety gone mad, I've hit people in the road who have been allowed off the bus in busy traffic . If I had been a motorbike or car they might be dead.

All I said was bus drivers are not allowed to let passengers off in traffic, what is the problem?

 

[Urbanblues]

Bring back Routemasters with all the tricky stuff that allows cunts like me to access 'em!

 

[blossie33]

The old Routemaster's were one of my delights when I came to London 10 years ago. It was like being a child again to be able to jump off the platform as Brum had done away with the old style buses years ago.

However, they were not the most comfortable of buses

Not sure about new style ones - the ordinary double deckers are ok - but they should definitely get rid of the Bendies imo.

 

[citydreams]

All I said was bus drivers are not allowed to let passengers off in traffic, what is the problem?

The problem is that I don't believe it.

Take for example where the designated bus-stop is full. The bus pulls up behind it, or infront of it. Are you saying that the bus driver has to get out of his seat and guide the passengers off? Of couse not. So, for legal reasons, how do you define how far away from a bus-stop a bus can stop safely? You can't. It's up to the driver to decide where is safe.

 

[Callie]

Bus drivers are told NOT to open the doors at anywhere other than a bus stop. How that is defined i do not know cos not all bus stops are marked clearly on the road but they probably also have rules and what not about where to pull into a bus stop which would sort that out.

any bus drivers on here? i could ask my step dad tonight.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

The problem is that I don't believe it.

Take for example where the designated bus-stop is full. The bus pulls up behind it, or infront of it. Are you saying that the bus driver has to get out of his seat and guide the passengers off? Of couse not. So, for legal reasons, how do you define how far away from a bus-stop a bus can stop safely? You can't. It's up to the driver to decide where is safe.

I don't really understand your problem. Bus drivers have to pull into the bus stops before opening the doors, that's what they are told to do. People are wait for the bus there and it is dangerous to let people off when there is a risk of passing traffic (bikes/motorbikes) hitting them. It's simple.
If a bus breaks down in the middle of the road and the bus driver has no choice then he has to assess the situation then guide the passengers off. That was the example you asked for, if a bus broke down in the road.

If the stop is full with another bus, buses are supposed to wait. Have you never seen this in action? They can at least pull into the kerb just behind the stop, but they are however not really supposed to do this because people should be waiting at the allotted stop.

 

[Crispy]

The problem is that I don't believe it.

Take for example where the designated bus-stop is full. The bus pulls up behind it, or infront of it. Are you saying that the bus driver has to get out of his seat and guide the passengers off? Of couse not. So, for legal reasons, how do you define how far away from a bus-stop a bus can stop safely? You can't. It's up to the driver to decide where is safe.

If Brixton high street is any sort of example, the 'Bus Stop' extends all the way to the central reservation

 

[Callie]

I think citydreams is trying to say they don't think there is an actual legislation that states they can't open the doors.

yes/no??